49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Do we think Puni starts anywhere anytime soon?

I want him to start at RG but I also don't think Kyle will start a rookie unless he has no other choice.

I think it will be fine to start a rookie OLineman, if it's done early. By the time the playoffs roll around, a guy like Puni (if he started all year) would be pretty much a veteran. Mckivitz did decent in his first year as a starter and was not bad in the Superbowl.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Do we think Puni starts anywhere anytime soon?

I want him to start at RG but I also don't think Kyle will start a rookie unless he has no other choice.

I think it will be fine to start a rookie OLineman, if it's done early. By the time the playoffs roll around, a guy like Puni (if he started all year) would be pretty much a veteran. Mckivitz did decent in his first year as a starter and was not bad in the Superbowl.

That is my thinking.

Oddly enough you see the trend in the league? Skill players salaries are leveling off and trench salaries are jumping. This is what happens when overall line quality is now lacking and its hard to find the good talent. I still cant believe they didn't dip hard into this draft class.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Defense helped us get back into the games with timely turnovers in the playoffs.

As for the Offensive line, it was generally accepted that it was one of our weaker squads last year.

Offenses have a rule advantage in the playoffs (don't hit QB, holding not called in the playoffs) etc... strengthening the offensive line helps get you that advantage in the playoffs - if you have better talent. Skimping on the offensive line just gives you a *disadvantage* in the playoffs.

It's crazy the amount of resources spent on the defensive line but the defensive line has a inherent rules *disadvantage* in the playoffs.

Are you suggesting it wasn't strengthened? I see a stronger swing tackle and potentially better interior reserves then last year.

It's stronger for sure, with the investment in Kingston and Puni. I'm just saying that the investment should have begun a year earlier.

Going forward, until they have that depth at left tackle, I hope they continue to invest in the offensive line - the way the invested two draft picks to that area in this last draft. When Trent had to leave, that whole left side just couldn't move anybody. The 49ers playing 20+ games a year for the last 3 years is going to wear out a lot of parts on the 49ers. Besides Trent Williams, Kittle is already showing some wear and tear, and he's only 30.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Do we think Puni starts anywhere anytime soon?

I want him to start at RG but I also don't think Kyle will start a rookie unless he has no other choice.

I think it will be fine to start a rookie OLineman, if it's done early. By the time the playoffs roll around, a guy like Puni (if he started all year) would be pretty much a veteran. Mckivitz did decent in his first year as a starter and was not bad in the Superbowl.

That is my thinking.

Oddly enough you see the trend in the league? Skill players salaries are leveling off and trench salaries are jumping. This is what happens when overall line quality is now lacking and its hard to find the good talent. I still cant believe they didn't dip hard into this draft class.

As the NFL continues to get more and more pass happy, and becomes more basketball (vs wrestling) I think the skill positions will always be higher than the offensive line positions. I cite NY85 as to how hard it is to develop offensive linemen in the NFL. He basically says, and I agree with him, they aren't really taught the NFL blocking needed when they are in college. So I think the 49ers not investing in offensive linemen like they do for the running back position is hurting Kyles offense. This is hindsight - but having NOT picked Offensive Linemen in the 3rd round instead of RB's, might have been the difference in the Superbowl. Still, I think ShanaLynch have done an excellent job at developing the roster and talent to make it to 3 straight NFCCGs. I'm just quibbling between the differences in the NFCCG and the Super Bowl.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Do we think Puni starts anywhere anytime soon?

I want him to start at RG but I also don't think Kyle will start a rookie unless he has no other choice.

I think it will be fine to start a rookie OLineman, if it's done early. By the time the playoffs roll around, a guy like Puni (if he started all year) would be pretty much a veteran. Mckivitz did decent in his first year as a starter and was not bad in the Superbowl.

One of the other factors for NFL rookies is conditioning. It takes many rooks a year or so to acclimate to the grind of the NFL, especially the extra games. I expect they play at least 19 games this year.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Do we think Puni starts anywhere anytime soon?

I want him to start at RG but I also don't think Kyle will start a rookie unless he has no other choice.

I think it will be fine to start a rookie OLineman, if it's done early. By the time the playoffs roll around, a guy like Puni (if he started all year) would be pretty much a veteran. Mckivitz did decent in his first year as a starter and was not bad in the Superbowl.

That is my thinking.

Oddly enough you see the trend in the league? Skill players salaries are leveling off and trench salaries are jumping. This is what happens when overall line quality is now lacking and its hard to find the good talent. I still cant believe they didn't dip hard into this draft class.

As the NFL continues to get more and more pass happy, and becomes more basketball (vs wrestling) I think the skill positions will always be higher than the offensive line positions. I cite NY85 as to how hard it is to develop offensive linemen in the NFL. He basically says, and I agree with him, they aren't really taught the NFL blocking needed when they are in college. So I think the 49ers not investing in offensive linemen like they do for the running back position is hurting Kyles offense. This is hindsight - but having NOT picked Offensive Linemen in the 3rd round instead of RB's, might have been the difference in the Superbowl. Still, I think ShanaLynch have done an excellent job at developing the roster and talent to make it to 3 straight NFCCGs. I'm just quibbling between the differences in the NFCCG and the Super Bowl.

I know, and also the CBA has cut back on offseason programs big time compared to the past which you hear has hurt o-line development.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Are you suggesting it wasn't strengthened? I see a stronger swing tackle and potentially better interior reserves then last year.

Are you suggesting it was? If you are trotting out the same 5 as last year then no, you didn't improve.

Originally posted by mcwoot:
Are you suggesting it was? If you are trotting out the same 5 as last year then no, you didn't improve.

Depth is better yes.

If Burford isn't on the team it's an improvement.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by mcwoot:
Are you suggesting it was? If you are trotting out the same 5 as last year then no, you didn't improve.

Depth is better yes.

If Burford isn't on the team it's an improvement.

If the depth isn't good enough to beat the starters then we aren't improved imo.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I know, and also the CBA has cut back on offseason programs big time compared to the past which you hear has hurt o-line development.

I agree. It hurts all rookie development but I think it hurt QB and O line development the most.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
is Trent overrated?

I think he is underrated.

All I hear about our O-line is how weak it is, I rarely hear about the once in a lifetime future H.O.F left tackle that we have on that o-line.

When he was out last season the offense was horrible. We couldn't run the ball at all. Its quite scray tbh.

FACTS

I think a lot of people bash the o-line because we only have 1 household name up front. I watched Bill Walsh use this same strategy when he had o-line coach Bobb McKittrick. If we really think about it; Shanahan has gotten to two super bowls using a similar strategy (Coaching up UDFA and late round picks to man the o-line positions).

https://www.mercurynews.com/2010/01/21/san-francisco-49ers-hire-disciple-of-late-bobb-mckittrick/

With that said, our true staple up front (Big Trent) was drafted #4 overall when he came out of college. He is not a typical low round pick, he is the cream of the crop. Shanahan's scheme fits this guy perfectly. I know we want 5 Trent Williams type of O-linemen up front (Similar to the Hogs 1980's or the 1990's Cowboys) but I don't think that is possible in today's football due to the salary cap. Not to mention we would have to consistently draft in the top 5-10 picks to make that happen which is also highly unlikely.

Big $ now goes to QB's & WR's, with that you get one Trent Williams (once in a generation talent) up front on most good teams.

My thought when reading your post is we do not have Bob McKittrick. Some say Scarnecchia(?) was that to Bill in NE all those years.

I figured once we found Brock and he had his damn elbow blown up, they would shift focus to protecting him, but ...nope.

That was a back up TE that missed that block (NFCCG Injury vs Philly) not a O-linemen. So if there was an issue it was scheme related not O-line related.

It was both the line not recognizing Reddick was one on one v with Kroft and you have rest. That was on the right tackle to adjust call a time out whatever to not let that happen however yea that was a back up tight end.

RT calling time outs now? lol

Stop the play or make adjustments. I know you only see one side but in reality your just plain defending the miss assignment of blocking Reddick. Either it's Kyle calling the personnel or a RT not accounting for Reddick. Which one or what's your excuse.

I'm the only one being one sided? lol

i'm not the ignorant one saying the Right tackle should be calling time outs, then hiding under the "because Kyle is the HC!" Schtick once you get called out for it. lol

It seems you are being one sided... you did not answer the question. What's your excuse for a back up tight end on Reddick and why did the play continue.

I don't need to make excuses. 9 out of 10 times that play goes for a TD or big gain.

It probably would have been a TD if Kittle was in which is why it was a bad play with personnel in to block Riddick.

This is a fair take.

Pretty sure Reid called the same play vs the eagles and had their backup TE blocking Riddick.

He did and it worked. Like within the first 5 plays of that Super Bowl. My view is more along the lines of probability. TEs block on those plays all the time, but which would you have more faith in to execute the block? For the record, I'm not one that is mad at Kyle for calling that play.

To Kyle's credit, he took advantage of Reddick selling out as a pass rusher BIG TIME in that December game. I still stand by if Kittle's out there, it's highly unlikely Reddick gets near Brock.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
If the depth isn't good enough to beat the starters then we aren't improved imo.

Unless you wanted to overpay in free agency we were gonna have the same 5 starters. Rooks don't start here very often.

I wanna see what McKivitz can do when he isn't stuck worrying about helping Burford.

Originally posted by mcwoot:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Are you suggesting it wasn't strengthened? I see a stronger swing tackle and potentially better interior reserves then last year.

Are you suggesting it was? If you are trotting out the same 5 as last year then no, you didn't improve.

Thought I responded to this but maybe not.

Fact is we really don't know but it's hard to imagine we didn't considering we added Puni and a few other guys to push starters and add depth.

Let's not forget most of us weren't too excited about the Feliciano signing last year and he was a key piece to the OL, so much so you can argue his injury cost us the SB.

Let's not forget for all its faults that OL had us in the SB. Not to mention guys develop and improve. Some could've been bothered by injuries and saw their play dip and getting them back healthy could be an improvement just off that.

But really it remains to be seen. The team at least added guys and didn't stand pat on who they had. Now it's up to them to see who steps up.

Originally posted by Cosmo:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Do we think Puni starts anywhere anytime soon?

I want him to start at RG but I also don't think Kyle will start a rookie unless he has no other choice.

I think it will be fine to start a rookie OLineman, if it's done early. By the time the playoffs roll around, a guy like Puni (if he started all year) would be pretty much a veteran. Mckivitz did decent in his first year as a starter and was not bad in the Superbowl.

One of the other factors for NFL rookies is conditioning. It takes many rooks a year or so to acclimate to the grind of the NFL, especially the extra games. I expect they play at least 19 games this year.

Conditioning is definitely a factor, but if he is made of the right stuff, I think that can be overcome with a good strength and conditioning coach that paces him, knowing he's a rookie. I think this is where depth via Kingston, Burford, and Zakelj comes in - to help whoever is starter to stay as fresh and 💯% as possible.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I know, and also the CBA has cut back on offseason programs big time compared to the past which you hear has hurt o-line development.

Agree, but that's true of every team. So it's not the disadvantage that only affects the 49ers.