49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
McKivitz has allowed 2 sacks this season, Penei Sewell has allowed 1 this season. Clearly Penei is better, but he hasn't allowed alot of sacks this season. I think they showed this on the tv cast last week as well. He's tied among the better oline players for sacks allowed. That being said, he still needs to be upgraded if we can.

Mckivitz:
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/colton-mckivitz/29314#latestNewsWidget

Sewell:
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/penei-sewell/81788#latestNewsWidget

I don't know how they come up with their figures, but by my viewing, Brendel didn't allow any sacks. People whine about him because they think any hint of pressure is unacceptable. That's not how football works.

Very few of the sacks were actually allowed by the team's offensive linemen. Brock was either sacked by a blitzer who was unaccounted for or beat a running back, sacked himself, or took coverage sacks.

Fans on here would hate the 49ers' lines every year since 1987. There's some revisionist history about how "good" the 49ers' lines were back in those days. In reality, the 1989 49ers' offensive line, for example, was getting shredded in the media. Joe Montana was sacked 8 times vs. the Eagles. People blamed the 49ers' offensive line for Steve Young's injuries, but the reality is Young was getting himself hurt with all his running around and holding the ball too long.

You want to fix the protection? Tell Brock to learn how to climb the pocket and not hold the ball so long.

Tell Kyle to let Brock call protection adjustments when he sees the blitz.

Tell Kyle to stop bootlegging Brock into free edge rushers.

Tell Kyle to stop putting tight ends in protection, since it's an invitation for the opposing edge to take a wide edge rush, and these tight ends are not good enough to succeed against that.

Tell Kyle to stop getting all the running backs injured by acting like modern performance enhancing drug using backs can touch the ball 20+ times per game. Running back by committee is the way to do it. Then he wouldn't have 4th string running backs trying to pick up the blitz.

What???? Brock has got out of too many would be sacks to count by running for his life.

Originally posted by elguapo:
What???? Brock has got out of too many would be sacks to count by running for his life.

Brock has also sacked himself with happy feet and holding the ball too long.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
I don't know how they come up with their figures, but by my viewing, Brendel didn't allow any sacks. People whine about him because they think any hint of pressure is unacceptable. That's not how football works.

Very few of the sacks were actually allowed by the team's offensive linemen. Brock was either sacked by a blitzer who was unaccounted for or beat a running back, sacked himself, or took coverage sacks.

Fans on here would hate the 49ers' lines every year since 1987. There's some revisionist history about how "good" the 49ers' lines were back in those days. In reality, the 1989 49ers' offensive line, for example, was getting shredded in the media. Joe Montana was sacked 8 times vs. the Eagles. People blamed the 49ers' offensive line for Steve Young's injuries, but the reality is Young was getting himself hurt with all his running around and holding the ball too long.

You want to fix the protection? Tell Brock to learn how to climb the pocket and not hold the ball so long.

Tell Kyle to let Brock call protection adjustments when he sees the blitz.

Tell Kyle to stop bootlegging Brock into free edge rushers.

Tell Kyle to stop putting tight ends in protection, since it's an invitation for the opposing edge to take a wide edge rush, and these tight ends are not good enough to succeed against that.

Tell Kyle to stop getting all the running backs injured by acting like modern performance enhancing drug using backs can touch the ball 20+ times per game. Running back by committee is the way to do it. Then he wouldn't have 4th string running backs trying to pick up the blitz.

Still upset about the season and it helps to respond sometimes to posts - even posts with a few ridiculous claims such as yours.

Some of your takes I agree, such as more of a RB by committee when you have talented backups such as Mason (but only somewhat by committee as CMC with his talent has to have the far majority of touches).

Where you go off the rails is trying to minimize completely the importance of a good OL towards winning - and not just winning, but winning a championship. A good OL anchored with actual quality NFL-caliber talent. The game has and always will be won in the trenches.

I've been fortunate enough to see every Niners SB win. I sure as hell didn't "hate the 49ers' lines every year since 1987." I'll take the following OL talent from the '88 SB winning team any day, every day, and twice on Sundays:

RT Harris Barton
RG Guy McIntyre
C Randy Cross
LG Jesse Sapolu
LT Steve Wallace

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
McKivitz has allowed 2 sacks this season, Penei Sewell has allowed 1 this season. Clearly Penei is better, but he hasn't allowed alot of sacks this season. I think they showed this on the tv cast last week as well. He's tied among the better oline players for sacks allowed. That being said, he still needs to be upgraded if we can.

Mckivitz:
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/colton-mckivitz/29314#latestNewsWidget

Sewell:
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/penei-sewell/81788#latestNewsWidget

Mckivitz is the 119th rated tackle in pressures allowed. He was responsible for Brock missing an easy TD vs Miami. He cost us points at end of 1st half vs rams in 1st game. Countless other times he's given up untimely pressues.

I don't know about sewell as I don't watch many lions games. I've watched every niners game. Mckivitz is not good overall but serviceable.

Brendel is f**king terrible to my eyes. Our run game suffers because of him. We have free rushers on 4 man rushes due to bad call outs. He can't hold his ground. Maybe not the worst C in the league but just a bad player

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by elguapo:
What???? Brock has got out of too many would be sacks to count by running for his life.

Brock has also sacked himself with happy feet and holding the ball too long.

Yes but Brock avoiding 5-6 sacks a game as opposed to getting himself sacked 1-2 times per game does not support your case whatsoever

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
McKivitz has allowed 2 sacks this season, Penei Sewell has allowed 1 this season. Clearly Penei is better, but he hasn't allowed alot of sacks this season. I think they showed this on the tv cast last week as well. He's tied among the better oline players for sacks allowed. That being said, he still needs to be upgraded if we can.

Mckivitz:
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/colton-mckivitz/29314#latestNewsWidget

Sewell:
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/penei-sewell/81788#latestNewsWidget

Mckivitz is the 119th rated tackle in pressures allowed. He was responsible for Brock missing an easy TD vs Miami. He cost us points at end of 1st half vs rams in 1st game. Countless other times he's given up untimely pressues.

I don't know about sewell as I don't watch many lions games. I've watched every niners game. Mckivitz is not good overall but serviceable.

Brendel is f**king terrible to my eyes. Our run game suffers because of him. We have free rushers on 4 man rushes due to bad call outs. He can't hold his ground. Maybe not the worst C in the league but just a bad player

Bro, no one here is arguing that Mckivitz is great or better than Penei lol.... I'm just stating the facts and this according to PFF and even the telecast posted it a week ago, He's only given up 2 sacks this whole season and Penei has given up 1.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Fans on here would hate the 49ers' lines every year since 1987. There's some revisionist history about how "good" the 49ers' lines were back in those days. In reality, the 1989 49ers' offensive line, for example, was getting shredded in the media. Joe Montana was sacked 8 times vs. the Eagles. People blamed the 49ers' offensive line for Steve Young's injuries, but the reality is Young was getting himself hurt with all his running around and holding the ball too long.

let's not use the Philly game as a bench mark...that was not the "89" line people are thinking about...guys were out with injuries and others were playing out of position. Rookie David cutitly took snaps in that game, Jeff Bregal was the RG and pushed normal RG Bruce Collie to LG..

On top of that it was buddy Ryan, picking on out of position players inside with his 46. They had guys like Reggie White, Clyde Simmons, Seth Joiner and Jerome Brown rushing the passer...all of these dudes have put up double digit sack seasons, and three of them have had Defensive MVP votes in their career.

Very few Defenses in the history of the NFL have had that kind of talent to throw at a QB.

Did it happen? Yeah...but this is like trying to paint the career of a CB the one game they had to face Montana throwing to Rice, or Brady throwing to Randy Moss.... it is cherry picked to the extreme.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Still upset about the season and it helps to respond sometimes to posts - even posts with a few ridiculous claims such as yours.

Some of your takes I agree, such as more of a RB by committee when you have talented backups such as Mason (but only somewhat by committee as CMC with his talent has to have the far majority of touches).

Where you go off the rails is trying to minimize completely the importance of a good OL towards winning - and not just winning, but winning a championship. A good OL anchored with actual quality NFL-caliber talent. The game has and always will be won in the trenches.

I've been fortunate enough to see every Niners SB win. I sure as hell didn't "hate the 49ers' lines every year since 1987." I'll take the following OL talent from the '88 SB winning team any day, every day, and twice on Sundays:

RT Harris Barton
RG Guy McIntyre
C Randy Cross
LG Jesse Sapolu
LT Steve Wallace

45 sacks allowed and struggled to run the ball (partly because John Frank retired and Brent Jones wasn't a good blocker...took the team a while to adjust and use Jamie Williams on running plays to get the running game going in 1991-1993).

Guy McIntyre was only out there for his pulling ability/run blocking. He was poor in protection.

Sapolu was a perfect example of a journeyman caliber lineman teams keep around as a center because they know the scheme and are seen as "leaders" of the offensive line. Not strong in-line and not very athletic either.

Steve Wallace was very beatable at tackle. He never really had the feet. Bubba Parris rotated with him and he was frequently out of shape.

Harris Barton was also very beatable, but right tackle is a difficult position.

Originally posted by Dshearn:
let's not use the Philly game as a bench mark...that was not the "89" line people are thinking about...guys were out with injuries and others were playing out of position. Rookie David cutitly took snaps in that game, Jeff Bregal was the RG and pushed normal RG Bruce Collie to LG..

On top of that it was buddy Ryan, picking on out of position players inside with his 46. They had guys like Reggie White, Clyde Simmons, Seth Joiner and Jerome Brown rushing the passer...all of these dudes have put up double digit sack seasons, and three of them have had Defensive MVP votes in their career.

Very few Defenses in the history of the NFL have had that kind of talent to throw at a QB.

Did it happen? Yeah...but this is like trying to paint the career of a CB the one game they had to face Montana throwing to Rice, or Brady throwing to Randy Moss.... it is cherry picked to the extreme.

The 49ers rotated multiple linemen because of their weaknesses. Bregel, Collie, and McIntyre rotated (before Bregel was cut in 89). The 49ers always had problems with McIntyre because he was so bad in protection. They wanted him out there for the run game but initially weren't comfortable with him playing without rotating him.

Steve Wallace rotated with Bubba Paris because Paris was regularly out of shape, and Wallace was coming off a broken leg in the Super Bowl.

Yes, the Eagles were a difficult rush to contain, but this game is a theme for the season. They struggled running the ball also, but as I said, that was partly because John Frank retired and Brent Jones was not a great blocker.

The 1983-1985 lines played brilliantly, but that was because they were so well coached and had become cohesive. It also helped to have Russ Francis at tight end for the run game.

After that, they fell off. They didn't get going again in the run game until 1991 (1988 worked well enough, but a lot of that was sheer determination by Roger Craig), but even when they were back to a well coordinated trap scheme for the run game, they were always exploitable in protection. Jim Jeffcoat dominated Steve Wallace in the 1993-1994 NFC Championship game.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Still upset about the season and it helps to respond sometimes to posts - even posts with a few ridiculous claims such as yours.

Some of your takes I agree, such as more of a RB by committee when you have talented backups such as Mason (but only somewhat by committee as CMC with his talent has to have the far majority of touches).

Where you go off the rails is trying to minimize completely the importance of a good OL towards winning - and not just winning, but winning a championship. A good OL anchored with actual quality NFL-caliber talent. The game has and always will be won in the trenches.

I've been fortunate enough to see every Niners SB win. I sure as hell didn't "hate the 49ers' lines every year since 1987." I'll take the following OL talent from the '88 SB winning team any day, every day, and twice on Sundays:

RT Harris Barton
RG Guy McIntyre
C Randy Cross
LG Jesse Sapolu
LT Steve Wallace

45 sacks allowed and struggled to run the ball (partly because John Frank retired and Brent Jones wasn't a good blocker...took the team a while to adjust and use Jamie Williams on running plays to get the running game going in 1991-1993).

Guy McIntyre was only out there for his pulling ability/run blocking. He was poor in protection.

Sapolu was a perfect example of a journeyman caliber lineman teams keep around as a center because they know the scheme and are seen as "leaders" of the offensive line. Not strong in-line and not very athletic either.

Steve Wallace was very beatable at tackle. He never really had the feet. Bubba Parris rotated with him and he was frequently out of shape.

Harris Barton was also very beatable, but right tackle is a difficult position.

Some very "interesting" opinions in breaking down that year's OL. Barton was one of my favorite Niners' O-linemen of all time and really liked watching him play.

I know what I saw out of that unit as a whole regarding their talent and functioning together to allow the Niners to run their offense pretty much how they wanted to - and, the effective results it had vs. opposing defenses. Were they perfect and was that line an all-time great line? Not saying that, but am saying it was a very good OL & I'll take an OL with that kind of talent from left to right any day and will like my chances.

We'll leave it as agree to disagree.

We should go get Alex Cappa, heard hes doing great.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
We should go get Alex Cappa, heard hes doing great.

what would you trade for him.. seemed like Burro was running for his life all season

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
We should go get Alex Cappa, heard hes doing great.

what would you trade for him.. seemed like Burro was running for his life all season

lol its a joke. He leads the league in Sacks Allowed, Pressures allowed, and Hurries allowed..