49ers Offensive Line

Given how awful Brendel was, I question why couldn't a talented rookie center be an improvement? Someone strong as a bull that won't get pushed around, has the aptitude to pick up on blocking assignments/making calls, and can be a plus in the pass and run game?

With as many picks as we have, it's not too much to ask for 3 draft picks along with some UDFAs.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Given how awful Brendel was, I question why couldn't a talented rookie center be an improvement? Someone strong as a bull that won't get pushed around, has the aptitude to pick up on blocking assignments/making calls, and can be a plus in the pass and run game?

With as many picks as we have, it's not too much to ask for 3 draft picks along with some UDFAs.

I concur. He was rated as the 35th C in the league by a metric stated by Ron Stats on his podcast and John Chapman (forgot which one. Definitely not PFF that rates him in the top 20 which is laughable). Also, on the No Huddle Podcast (Thursday Jan 9th's episode with Jason Aponte) he was listed as 30th for Centers.

Either way, Any, ANY Center would be an upgrade over Brendel and I believe most rookies with 1st-4th round talent would be too. Even if they can't learn the calls at the line, Brendel STILL screwed up so many protections so almost anything would be better. He was worse this year than last, getting beat and turning around watching our qb get smashed.

Originally posted by elguapo:
I concur. He was rated as the 35th C in the league by a metric stated by Ron Stats on his podcast and John Chapman (forgot which one. Definitely not PFF that rates him in the top 20 which is laughable). Also, on the No Huddle Podcast (Thursday Jan 9th's episode with Jason Aponte) he was listed as 30th for Centers.

Either way, Any, ANY Center would be an upgrade over Brendel and I believe most rookies with 1st-4th round talent would be too. Even if they can't learn the calls at the line, Brendel STILL screwed up so many protections so almost anything would be better. He was worse this year than last, getting beat and turning around watching our qb get smashed.

Agreed. And it's not like brendel is some genius center. If he was we wouldnt get so many unblocked 4 man pressures. If brendel is a backup I can live with that. But no way should he be starting. I'll roll the dice on a rookie

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by elguapo:
I concur. He was rated as the 35th C in the league by a metric stated by Ron Stats on his podcast and John Chapman (forgot which one. Definitely not PFF that rates him in the top 20 which is laughable). Also, on the No Huddle Podcast (Thursday Jan 9th's episode with Jason Aponte) he was listed as 30th for Centers.

Either way, Any, ANY Center would be an upgrade over Brendel and I believe most rookies with 1st-4th round talent would be too. Even if they can't learn the calls at the line, Brendel STILL screwed up so many protections so almost anything would be better. He was worse this year than last, getting beat and turning around watching our qb get smashed.

Agreed. And it's not like brendel is some genius center. If he was we wouldnt get so many unblocked 4 man pressures. If brendel is a backup I can live with that. But no way should he be starting. I'll roll the dice on a rookie

Exactly. His first year he was solid in pass protection but every year regressed.

This is something fans just don't get.

This forum is obsessed with offensive line. Aside from the fact that the 49ers' problems in protection, when they had them, usually had nothing to do with the offensive line, but rather on facing the blitz - which is almost entirely Kyle Shanahan's fault, both for the way he forces QBs to go hot as well as the way he runs the ball so much that he gets all of his running backs injured and is down to 4th string running backs who can't pick up the blitz every season - the caliber of offensive linemen themselves do not have anything to do with how many times a QB is sacked.

The quarterback himself determines this almost entirely.

Let's take a look at the sack percentages of Tom Brady. After his first season as a starter, Brady's sack percentage never hit 6% in any season for the rest of his career.

Now let's take a look at the sack percentages of Captain Massage, DeShaun Watson. In 7 seasons, his sack percentage has never been below 8.16%.

Did Tom Brady just have the most amazing offensive lines throughout his entire career from 2002 onward? Of course not. He had dozens of different linemen play in front of them. Logan Mankins was good. The rest were mostly average or below. Nate Solder sucked ass. Ask New York Giants fans about Nate Solder. I scouted Nate Solder coming out and immediately went, "he sucks." I said the same thing about Mike McGlinchey. I have no idea what scouts see in some of these right tackle prospects.

Let's look at Dan Marino.

His highest sack percentage for a season was 4.81%. Did he have stud offensive linemen throughout his career?

Funny enough, his best ever sack percentage - 0.98% in 1988 - came after his HOF center (whom some argue is the best to ever play), Dwight Stephenson, retired.

The Dolphins drafted Richmond Webb in 1990 and in 1991, Marino's sack numbers started going up.

There is no correlation between highly regarded linemen and sack percentages.

Let's look at Peyton Manning. With the exception of 2 seasons, his sack percentages never even hit 4%. Again, did he just have outstanding offensive linemen playing in front of him for his entire career? No. He sensed the rush, climbed the pocket (although it was sometimes ugly), and got the damn ball out.

Captain Massage, DeShaun Watson, on the other hand, does not. Watson doesn't just have bad linemen in front of him - he just holds the ball too long and doesn't know how to climb the pocket to buy time.

What does building an elite line on paper do for you? Ask the 1999 Saints.

The 1999 Saints had Willie Roaf, HOFer, at LT, and Kyle Turley, a top 10 pick and 2000 All Pro, at RT. They had another Top 10 pick, Chris Naeole, at right guard. Their center was Jerry Fontenot, who played in the league forever, hence teams thought he was good enough.

The Saints allowed a sack percentage of 6.9% and averaged 3.7 yards per carry running the ball. Ricky Williams averaged 3.5 yards per carry that season, his rookie season.

The Saints went 3-13.

How did Alex Smith do in his career with sack percentages?

Only twice in his career did he get under 6%.

In 2011, playing behind Joe Staley, Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, Adam Snyder, and Jonathan Goodwin, he led the league in sacks with 44. 9.0 sack percentage.

In 2012, when Alex Boone replaced Snyder at right guard, he had a 9.92 sack percentage before his injury and being replaced by Kraep.

Not only does caliber of offensive linemen have no effect on protection, but it has no effect on the success of a running game, either.

Running game is about blocking scheme and the coach teaching the guys the blocking scheme. You don't run the ball by getting drive movement; you run the ball by scheming open the creases.

In other words, using high draft picks or big salaries for offensive linemen is a complete waste of resources. It's an even bigger waste on linemen than it is on running backs. At least running backs can contribute something somewhat valuable as receivers when they have special ability there.

Offensive linemen just need to be in a good scheme with a quarterback who knows how to get rid of the ball. Other than that, unless they're just not even professional caliber, or they are loafing, they are good enough. There are hundreds of linemen you can use and never notice.

They literally did this with their tag team of street free agents against the Lions.

I'd be perfectly fine with an offensive line of Jaylon Moore, Spencer Burford, Jake Brendel, Dominic Puni, and Colton McKivitz next season. Brock needs to get his accuracy and timing back, and Screenbo needs to be on the bench unless it's special teams. Kyle needs to pull his head out of his ass and stop thinking he can run backs like it's 1988 without them getting injured (they're all on PEDs that lead to frequent injuries), and stop forcing Brock to go hot against every blitz, even when the hot could be the back side of the play and he can't throw that.

That's what will fix this offense. Not switching out a journeyman center or a guard as if that'll make an actual difference in anything with this offense.

TLDR - our OL would be fine if they were coached better and our QB didn't mess up.

Disagree personally, but that sums up the above.

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
TLDR - our OL would be fine if they were coached better and our QB didn't mess up.

Disagree personally, but that sums up the above.

Not sure how you can disagree given the numbers.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
TLDR - our OL would be fine if they were coached better and our QB didn't mess up.

Disagree personally, but that sums up the above.

Not sure how you can disagree given the numbers.

I agree with coaching matters. Our Oline coach needs to be better.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
TLDR - our OL would be fine if they were coached better and our QB didn't mess up.

Disagree personally, but that sums up the above.

Not sure how you can disagree given the numbers.

You only talk about sack percentage like it's all that is used to measure an OL.

Good coaching never hurts but to say good coaching is all we need to turn Moore, Burford, Brendel, Puni, McKivitz into a good OL is not something I'm going to agree with.

Better coaching and better players would be ideal, but we'll see what happens in the off season.

This idea that Shanahan runs the ball too much is hilarious to me. The entire NFL probably ran more every season before the year 2000.

Originally posted by captveg:
This idea that Shanahan runs the ball too much is hilarious to me. The entire NFL probably ran more every season before the year 2000.

We didn't even run that much this season with 14th most amount of rushes.

Funnily enough the 6 teams who ran it the most all made the playoffs and only 3 teams who made the playoffs ran less than us.

Originally posted by captveg:
This idea that Shanahan runs the ball too much is hilarious to me. The entire NFL probably ran more every season before the year 2000.

Uh, dude...before the invention of the forward pass, every team ran more than teams ran in the 90s. This is a horrible argument.

There's a reason teams stopped doing it - with the evolution of the passing game, it's less efficient to run the ball.

Additionally, running backs can't hold up anymore thanks to performance enhancing drugs leading to them being so injury prone. This leads to backup running backs who aren't prepared to pick up blitzes.