49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
You only talk about sack percentage like it's all that is used to measure an OL.

Good coaching never hurts but to say good coaching is all we need to turn Moore, Burford, Brendel, Puni, McKivitz into a good OL is not something I'm going to agree with.

Better coaching and better players would be ideal, but we'll see what happens in the off season.

What else do you want to measure? Meaningless pressures? I already demonstrated how the Saints were 3-13 and horrible in every facet of offense in 1999 with a stacked offensive line. Meanwhile, all of the great QBs had successful offenses every season for 20 years with revolving doors of offensive linemen.

The idea that the consistently least sacked QBs aren't getting sacked, but just throwing a bunch of incompletions that wouldn't have been incompletions with better offensive lines, isn't supported by anything.

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
We didn't even run that much this season with 14th most amount of rushes.

Funnily enough the 6 teams who ran it the most all made the playoffs and only 3 teams who made the playoffs ran less than us.

That's because they ran less after they ran out of running backs, and because they kept getting behind in games.

The Ravens can run the ball that much because Derrick Henry is a player from a little further back and uses the PEDs from that era, rather than modern PEDs, as well as the fact that Lamar Jackson contributes a lot of runs himself.

Modern running backs are never going to hold up. The 49ers aren't going to be able to find a back who can avoid injury for more than 4 games if they want to run him 20 times.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
You only talk about sack percentage like it's all that is used to measure an OL.

Good coaching never hurts but to say good coaching is all we need to turn Moore, Burford, Brendel, Puni, McKivitz into a good OL is not something I'm going to agree with.

Better coaching and better players would be ideal, but we'll see what happens in the off season.

What else do you want to measure? Meaningless pressures? I already demonstrated how the Saints were 3-13 and horrible in every facet of offense in 1999 with a stacked offensive line. Meanwhile, all of the great QBs had successful offenses every season for 20 years with revolving doors of offensive linemen.

The idea that the consistently least sacked QBs aren't getting sacked, but just throwing a bunch of incompletions that wouldn't have been incompletions with better offensive lines, isn't supported by anything.

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
We didn't even run that much this season with 14th most amount of rushes.

Funnily enough the 6 teams who ran it the most all made the playoffs and only 3 teams who made the playoffs ran less than us.

That's because they ran less after they ran out of running backs, and because they kept getting behind in games.

The Ravens can run the ball that much because Derrick Henry is a player from a little further back and uses the PEDs from that era, rather than modern PEDs, as well as the fact that Lamar Jackson contributes a lot of runs himself.

Modern running backs are never going to hold up. The 49ers aren't going to be able to find a back who can avoid injury for more than 4 games if they want to run him 20 times.

You do make some good points on both your post's (locked and unlocked). I disagree with the premise that the Oline talent does not matter. That depends on what offensive scheme is built around. Brock is running Kyle's Zone read and requires time for plays to develope and when the middle is blown up every play it kills drives. Brock is shorter physically more like Breeze. If we had better line play we would not be taking about this in the offseason. Brock has elite talent in recognizing reads when he has time. When the D is playing man coverage Brock had to just release early and problems occur.

Do we need All pros at every position, no of course not. However the line we trotted out last year would not cut it with the offense we call and QB we have. Time to fix the line to help both the play calling and QB/Run execution.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
How did Alex Smith do in his career with sack percentages?

Only twice in his career did he get under 6%.

In 2011, playing behind Joe Staley, Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, Adam Snyder, and Jonathan Goodwin, he led the league in sacks with 44. 9.0 sack percentage.

In 2012, when Alex Boone replaced Snyder at right guard, he had a 9.92 sack percentage before his injury and being replaced by Kraep.

Not only does caliber of offensive linemen have no effect on protection, but it has no effect on the success of a running game, either.

Running game is about blocking scheme and the coach teaching the guys the blocking scheme. You don't run the ball by getting drive movement; you run the ball by scheming open the creases.

In other words, using high draft picks or big salaries for offensive linemen is a complete waste of resources. It's an even bigger waste on linemen than it is on running backs. At least running backs can contribute something somewhat valuable as receivers when they have special ability there.

Offensive linemen just need to be in a good scheme with a quarterback who knows how to get rid of the ball. Other than that, unless they're just not even professional caliber, or they are loafing, they are good enough. There are hundreds of linemen you can use and never notice.

They literally did this with their tag team of street free agents against the Lions.

I'd be perfectly fine with an offensive line of Jaylon Moore, Spencer Burford, Jake Brendel, Dominic Puni, and Colton McKivitz next season. Brock needs to get his accuracy and timing back, and Screenbo needs to be on the bench unless it's special teams. Kyle needs to pull his head out of his ass and stop thinking he can run backs like it's 1988 without them getting injured (they're all on PEDs that lead to frequent injuries), and stop forcing Brock to go hot against every blitz, even when the hot could be the back side of the play and he can't throw that.

That's what will fix this offense. Not switching out a journeyman center or a guard as if that'll make an actual difference in anything with this offense.

Yes. Agree to a point. Scheme matters, QBs football awareness matters but all the QBs you named are first ballot HOFers or will be. Those come around every 15 years. You still need OL that are good/great to execute depending on who is behind center. If your theory is true, might as well get the custodian to play LT and the grounds keepers to play center.

Anybody claiming this o line to be sufficient and all that is needed is coaching is an expert… in bs. We have significant needs to n the o line.

Originally posted by Bringbackedjr:
Anybody claiming this o line to be sufficient and all that is needed is coaching is an expert… in bs. We have significant needs to n the o line.

Name a single instance where a QB struggled because of his offensive line, and then it was fixed, and then he greatly improved.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by Bringbackedjr:
Anybody claiming this o line to be sufficient and all that is needed is coaching is an expert… in bs. We have significant needs to n the o line.

Name a single instance where a QB struggled because of his offensive line, and then it was fixed, and then he greatly improved.

Aaaaaaa Jared Goff Baker Mayfield has a good OL

Originally posted by elguapo:
Aaaaaaa Jared Goff Baker Mayfield has a good OL

Huh? All of the Lions' big name linemen were drafted before Goff was even on the Lions. Goff has steadily improved in Ben Johnson's scheme while the offensive line remained the same.

"Baker Mayfield has a good OL." Really? Who? Wirfs? He was there with Brady.

Mayfield had a good offensive line on paper in Cleveland, too. He sucked most of the time there.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by elguapo:
Aaaaaaa Jared Goff Baker Mayfield has a good OL

Huh? All of the Lions' big name linemen were drafted before Goff was even on the Lions. Goff has steadily improved in Ben Johnson's scheme while the offensive line remained the same.

"Baker Mayfield has a good OL." Really? Who? Wirfs? He was there with Brady.

Mayfield had a good offensive line on paper in Cleveland, too. He sucked most of the time there.

who cares if the OL was there before them.. A good OL helps every QB good or bad.

Do you need the best OL to win, already proven that you don't.

but having the worst OL guarantees you are not going to have a great season

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
who cares if the OL was there before them.. A good OL helps every QB good or bad.

Do you need the best OL to win, already proven that you don't.

but having the worst OL guarantees you are not going to have a great season

There is a minimum level you need to achieve. Everything beyond that is gravy.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
who cares if the OL was there before them.. A good OL helps every QB good or bad.

Do you need the best OL to win, already proven that you don't.

but having the worst OL guarantees you are not going to have a great season

There is a minimum level you need to achieve. Everything beyond that is gravy.

exactly

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:

Originally posted by elguapo:
Aaaaaaa Jared Goff Baker Mayfield has a good OL

Huh? All of the Lions' big name linemen were drafted before Goff was even on the Lions. Goff has steadily improved in Ben Johnson's scheme while the offensive line remained the same.

"Baker Mayfield has a good OL." Really? Who? Wirfs? He was there with Brady.

Mayfield had a good offensive line on paper in Cleveland, too. He sucked most of the time there.

who cares if the OL was there before them.. A good OL helps every QB good or bad.

Do you need the best OL to win, already proven that you don't.

but having the worst OL guarantees you are not going to have a great season

Exactly.

Expert…..TB has 3 good O lineman. So there is your answer. You can accept it or live in denial. Up to you.

we seem to be at 3k and are still in search of an O line

NC was right all along.... now hes gone and not here to enjoy his work.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
NC was right all along.... now hes gone and not here to enjoy his work.

Still haven't heard what he did. Must've been bad for someone who's been here so long to get banned

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
NC was right all along.... now hes gone and not here to enjoy his work.

yup. hard not to watch NFC without talking about the Lions OL and Eagles OL they are the top seeds.