49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Constantine:

Originally posted by NCommand:
It starts with Chris Foerster & Eric Wolford. These two are best known for their zone blocking schemes (which we're anticipating will be installed here). So with our personnel, these fatties from the power run scheme (buh-bye Iupati) are going to have to slim down, get in shape, do some cardio, be able to move quickly from 3-4-point stance, rise quickly, block on the move in a zone, drop down and block at the next level, etc. Technique will be critical. As to personnel, I have a feeling we'll see some changes in the lineup (blocking in a ZBS includes the TE's as well):

H-Back: Derek Carrier
TE: Vernon Davis; Vance McDonald, Garrett Celek, Asante Cleveland & Xavier Grimble
FB: Bruce Miller; Trey Millard
LOT: Joe Staley; Erik Pears
ROT: Anthony Davis; Chris Martin & Fou Fonoti
LG: Brandon Thomas/Marcus Martin; & Andrew Tiller
RG: Alex Boone; Joe Looney
C: Daniel Kilgore/Marcus Martin; Dillon Farrell

WRATH is one of our resident OL experts and he's had some great thoughts on ideal personnel and why they would fit best.

I hope they big in OG in the draft, but not first round

I actually think we're pretty well set at the interior line positions. I question Boone's foot speed and lateral agility, and he REALLY struggles to maintain his pad level when he has to move laterally, as is required during a zone run. I think he's ideal in the swing tackle role, at least for the year (I think he gets paid by someone else in 2016). I think Kilgore, Thomas, MMartin are our best bets at the interior line positions, and I'd actually put Thomas at RG to help Davis in pass pro, and to take the majority of the snaps agains a 3-tech. I will be surprised if this happens, though, since Boone is making A LOT more money than MMartin or Thomas. If Boone really does get benched, he could be a decent backup for both G and T positions, but a mid-round backup interior lineman wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Very much agree here. And great perspective of moving Martin to LG and Thomas to RG d/t his PP to help Davis. I also think this c is the route we'll go in the draft. Baalke will lean on Forester and Wolford to coach up this rookie quickly. Talent development (teaching) will be a big emphasis on offense now.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Constantine:

Originally posted by NCommand:
It starts with Chris Foerster & Eric Wolford. These two are best known for their zone blocking schemes (which we're anticipating will be installed here). So with our personnel, these fatties from the power run scheme (buh-bye Iupati) are going to have to slim down, get in shape, do some cardio, be able to move quickly from 3-4-point stance, rise quickly, block on the move in a zone, drop down and block at the next level, etc. Technique will be critical. As to personnel, I have a feeling we'll see some changes in the lineup (blocking in a ZBS includes the TE's as well):

H-Back: Derek Carrier
TE: Vernon Davis; Vance McDonald, Garrett Celek, Asante Cleveland & Xavier Grimble
FB: Bruce Miller; Trey Millard
LOT: Joe Staley; Erik Pears
ROT: Anthony Davis; Chris Martin & Fou Fonoti
LG: Brandon Thomas/Marcus Martin; & Andrew Tiller
RG: Alex Boone; Joe Looney
C: Daniel Kilgore/Marcus Martin; Dillon Farrell

WRATH is one of our resident OL experts and he's had some great thoughts on ideal personnel and why they would fit best.

I hope they big in OG in the draft, but not first round

I actually think we're pretty well set at the interior line positions. I question Boone's foot speed and lateral agility, and he REALLY struggles to maintain his pad level when he has to move laterally, as is required during a zone run. I think he's ideal in the swing tackle role, at least for the year (I think he gets paid by someone else in 2016). I think Kilgore, Thomas, MMartin are our best bets at the interior line positions, and I'd actually put Thomas at RG to help Davis in pass pro, and to take the majority of the snaps agains a 3-tech. I will be surprised if this happens, though, since Boone is making A LOT more money than MMartin or Thomas. If Boone really does get benched, he could be a decent backup for both G and T positions, but a mid-round backup interior lineman wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Very much agree here. And great perspective of moving Martin to LG and Thomas to RG d/t his PP to help Davis. I also think this c is the route we'll go in the draft. Baalke will lean on Forester and Wolford to coach up this rookie quickly. Talent development (teaching) will be a big emphasis on offense now.

I actually forgot about Looney somehow, which is crazy, since I spent so much time last year defending him. I think he's good competition at all three interior positions, and he's good depth. If he doesn't win a starting role, he should be easy to re-sign also. I think depth at tackle is still a concern going forward (we'll need a swing tackle after Boone leaves, and I'd prefer that player to have experience in the system). Pears might be the swing tackle for the next two years, but I don't know enough about him to be certain that he's even much pf an upgrade over JMart.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Constantine:

Originally posted by NCommand:
It starts with Chris Foerster & Eric Wolford. These two are best known for their zone blocking schemes (which we're anticipating will be installed here). So with our personnel, these fatties from the power run scheme (buh-bye Iupati) are going to have to slim down, get in shape, do some cardio, be able to move quickly from 3-4-point stance, rise quickly, block on the move in a zone, drop down and block at the next level, etc. Technique will be critical. As to personnel, I have a feeling we'll see some changes in the lineup (blocking in a ZBS includes the TE's as well):

H-Back: Derek Carrier
TE: Vernon Davis; Vance McDonald, Garrett Celek, Asante Cleveland & Xavier Grimble
FB: Bruce Miller; Trey Millard
LOT: Joe Staley; Erik Pears
ROT: Anthony Davis; Chris Martin & Fou Fonoti
LG: Brandon Thomas/Marcus Martin; & Andrew Tiller
RG: Alex Boone; Joe Looney
C: Daniel Kilgore/Marcus Martin; Dillon Farrell

WRATH is one of our resident OL experts and he's had some great thoughts on ideal personnel and why they would fit best.

I hope they big in OG in the draft, but not first round

I actually think we're pretty well set at the interior line positions. I question Boone's foot speed and lateral agility, and he REALLY struggles to maintain his pad level when he has to move laterally, as is required during a zone run. I think he's ideal in the swing tackle role, at least for the year (I think he gets paid by someone else in 2016). I think Kilgore, Thomas, MMartin are our best bets at the interior line positions, and I'd actually put Thomas at RG to help Davis in pass pro, and to take the majority of the snaps agains a 3-tech. I will be surprised if this happens, though, since Boone is making A LOT more money than MMartin or Thomas. If Boone really does get benched, he could be a decent backup for both G and T positions, but a mid-round backup interior lineman wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Very much agree here. And great perspective of moving Martin to LG and Thomas to RG d/t his PP to help Davis. I also think this c is the route we'll go in the draft. Baalke will lean on Forester and Wolford to coach up this rookie quickly. Talent development (teaching) will be a big emphasis on offense now.

I actually forgot about Looney somehow, which is crazy, since I spent so much time last year defending him. I think he's good competition at all three interior positions, and he's good depth. If he doesn't win a starting role, he should be easy to re-sign also. I think depth at tackle is still a concern going forward (we'll need a swing tackle after Boone leaves, and I'd prefer that player to have experience in the system). Pears might be the swing tackle for the next two years, but I don't know enough about him to be certain that he's even much pf an upgrade over JMart.

After analyzing the OL with you last preseason I've defended Looney as well. He looked good as a starting C for us late last year and can pull very well from either LG or RG. Being able to play all 3 interior positions is huge for us. And don't forget our unsung hero in Dillon Farrell. He has very good potential to be a quality C backup esp. if we do in fact move to a ZBS. That change along will really benefit Kilgore the most IMHO.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Constantine:

Originally posted by NCommand:
It starts with Chris Foerster & Eric Wolford. These two are best known for their zone blocking schemes (which we're anticipating will be installed here). So with our personnel, these fatties from the power run scheme (buh-bye Iupati) are going to have to slim down, get in shape, do some cardio, be able to move quickly from 3-4-point stance, rise quickly, block on the move in a zone, drop down and block at the next level, etc. Technique will be critical. As to personnel, I have a feeling we'll see some changes in the lineup (blocking in a ZBS includes the TE's as well):

H-Back: Derek Carrier
TE: Vernon Davis; Vance McDonald, Garrett Celek, Asante Cleveland & Xavier Grimble
FB: Bruce Miller; Trey Millard
LOT: Joe Staley; Erik Pears
ROT: Anthony Davis; Chris Martin & Fou Fonoti
LG: Brandon Thomas/Marcus Martin; & Andrew Tiller
RG: Alex Boone; Joe Looney
C: Daniel Kilgore/Marcus Martin; Dillon Farrell

WRATH is one of our resident OL experts and he's had some great thoughts on ideal personnel and why they would fit best.

I hope they big in OG in the draft, but not first round

I actually think we're pretty well set at the interior line positions. I question Boone's foot speed and lateral agility, and he REALLY struggles to maintain his pad level when he has to move laterally, as is required during a zone run. I think he's ideal in the swing tackle role, at least for the year (I think he gets paid by someone else in 2016). I think Kilgore, Thomas, MMartin are our best bets at the interior line positions, and I'd actually put Thomas at RG to help Davis in pass pro, and to take the majority of the snaps agains a 3-tech. I will be surprised if this happens, though, since Boone is making A LOT more money than MMartin or Thomas. If Boone really does get benched, he could be a decent backup for both G and T positions, but a mid-round backup interior lineman wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Very much agree here. And great perspective of moving Martin to LG and Thomas to RG d/t his PP to help Davis. I also think this c is the route we'll go in the draft. Baalke will lean on Forester and Wolford to coach up this rookie quickly. Talent development (teaching) will be a big emphasis on offense now.

I actually forgot about Looney somehow, which is crazy, since I spent so much time last year defending him. I think he's good competition at all three interior positions, and he's good depth. If he doesn't win a starting role, he should be easy to re-sign also. I think depth at tackle is still a concern going forward (we'll need a swing tackle after Boone leaves, and I'd prefer that player to have experience in the system). Pears might be the swing tackle for the next two years, but I don't know enough about him to be certain that he's even much pf an upgrade over JMart.

After analyzing the OL with you last preseason I've defended Looney as well. He looked good as a starting C for us late last year and can pull very well from either LG or RG. Being able to play all 3 interior positions is huge for us. And don't forget our unsung hero in Dillon Farrell. He has very good potential to be a quality C backup esp. if we do in fact move to a ZBS. That change along will really benefit Kilgore the most IMHO.

So do you guys think we need to draft someone in the first two rounds? It doesn't sound like it.

They will teach both power and zone schemes. Nowadays teams that are run primarily one scheme with out mixing up are setting themselves up for failure.

Originally posted by MarkD:
They will teach both power and zone schemes. Nowadays teams that are run primarily one scheme with out mixing up are setting themselves up for failure.

That would be ideal, but I would rather we execute one really well, then both half ass.

Originally posted by MarkD:
They will teach both power and zone schemes. Nowadays teams that are run primarily one scheme with out mixing up are setting themselves up for failure.

Seattle runs zone almost exclusively, as did washington, Baltimore, and Houston. Seattle and Baltimore in particular were claiming souls with their respective running games.

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
So do you guys think we need to draft someone in the first two rounds? It doesn't sound like it.

I don't think we need to go OL early. I think we have time to develop a guy who is raw but very talented. We should be able to get one of theose guys in the third or later.

they had a lot of injuries/hold outs that hurt the O line last year. i thought they started running the ball better when davis made it back in the line up.

kilgore played pretty well, but we struggled when martin tried to step in. boone didn't seem to regain his form after his hold out and martin was not starter material.

you have to have high hopes for thomas at LG. get some cohesiveness with staley and kilgore bracketing him. contract year for boone and looney has to prove his worthy this year, too. martin will have some time to learn. i'm not sure the FA (pears) will add much. i'm hoping they add another blue chip in the draft.

Originally posted by Hopper:
No more Iupati definitely helps. He was just atrocious in pass protection.

Iupati just got too big and heavy. He seemed much more effective his first and second years on the move.

If nothing else, I hope to see slimmer players. The difference between 305 and 315 is not much in the power game but it makes a world of difference when you have to get out and move. I would like to see Davis, Kilgore and Martin all drop about 10 pounds. They all look too full in the midsection to be able to move like they need to.

I might have been the first person to mention drafting a lineman in the first or second rounds as a way to improve the offensive line. But, I'm not advocating that as necessarily the best choice in those first two rounds. It's just that all the other starters at offensive positions look a little better to me at the moment, so in terms of offense, I would look to the offensive line first in the draft.

I think the Baalke seems to have done a pretty good job at already assembling a pretty good set of starters on both offense and defense, though, so I would be okay with him going BPA for the first couple of rounds. (If he isn't going to go BPA in those rounds and is looking to improve the defense, I think he should focus more on drafting a corner - in fact, my hunch is that he will draft a corner in the first round.)

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by MarkD:

They will teach both power and zone schemes. Nowadays teams that are run primarily one scheme with out mixing up are setting themselves up for failure.

That would be ideal, but I would rather we execute one really well, then both half ass.

True but if they teach and practice well they should accomplish both. Imo

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I actually think we're pretty well set at the interior line positions. I question Boone's foot speed and lateral agility, and he REALLY struggles to maintain his pad level when he has to move laterally, as is required during a zone run. I think he's ideal in the swing tackle role, at least for the year (I think he gets paid by someone else in 2016). I think Kilgore, Thomas, MMartin are our best bets at the interior line positions, and I'd actually put Thomas at RG to help Davis in pass pro, and to take the majority of the snaps agains a 3-tech. I will be surprised if this happens, though, since Boone is making A LOT more money than MMartin or Thomas. If Boone really does get benched, he could be a decent backup for both G and T positions, but a mid-round backup interior lineman wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Interesting take on Boone (and other issues as well). If, as you suggest, his foot speed and lateral agility is questionable, then he won't likely make a good LT as some of us had hoped. Usually guys are moved inside when they can work better in limited space. He did well filling in for Staley in the past but is he likely to have probelms with speed rushers if they play him there on a consistent basis. Totally agree about his tendency to play too high.

This makes me wonder if he should be shopped when the niners are sure they have good replacements. M Martin, Thomas, Looney may make that possible...with Farrell and another backup through the draft. That leaves OT...but they have Pears and Thomas has played OT...so they are close to being able to make a trade. Boone for a ILB?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Interesting take on Boone (and other issues as well). If, as you suggest, his foot speed and lateral agility is questionable, then he won't likely make a good LT as some of us had hoped. Usually guys are moved inside when they can work better in limited space. He did well filling in for Staley in the past but is he likely to have probelms with speed rushers if they play him there on a consistent basis. Totally agree about his tendency to play too high.

This makes me wonder if he should be shopped when the niners are sure they have good replacements. M Martin, Thomas, Looney may make that possible...with Farrell and another backup through the draft. That leaves OT...but they have Pears and Thomas has played OT...so they are close to being able to make a trade. Boone for a ILB?

LOL, I initially read this as Boone being moved to ILB. Yeah I agree that he's done well as a fill-in at T, but that he'd struggle at LT as a starter. He does a good job of using his reach and long strides to overcome his slow foot speed, but he also has the advantage of not being studied all week by the guy he's working against, since they're always planning for Staley. I think he'll make his money as a tackle in this league, but he's better suited to the right side, unless the team he goes to has a very good LG and/or system that provides help from RB/TE/HB, and lots of playaction.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Interesting take on Boone (and other issues as well). If, as you suggest, his foot speed and lateral agility is questionable, then he won't likely make a good LT as some of us had hoped. Usually guys are moved inside when they can work better in limited space. He did well filling in for Staley in the past but is he likely to have probelms with speed rushers if they play him there on a consistent basis. Totally agree about his tendency to play too high.

This makes me wonder if he should be shopped when the niners are sure they have good replacements. M Martin, Thomas, Looney may make that possible...with Farrell and another backup through the draft. That leaves OT...but they have Pears and Thomas has played OT...so they are close to being able to make a trade. Boone for a ILB?

I thought about the possibility of moving Boone for a mid rd pick as well. Especially if we got our guy at 15 and don't have to trade down. Then we can move Boone to nab a pick to give us more leveraging in landing the ILB prospect we are bound to select rd two or three. Our first four picks would ideally be WR DL ILB OL IMO