49ers Offensive Line

Even with many of the offensive weapons injured and Williams missing several games the offense was better than the defense statistically. The middle of the defensive line needs some big time help. The O line does too but there aren't any centers or great tackles that are going to be there when the Niners pick. The best tackles will likely be gone since there aren't many in this draft. They can probably get guard or tackle rounds 2-5 that will be just as good as one available at #11. That is unless one of the 2 top guys slides back. Then you have have to wonder why he wasn't taken.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Even with many of the offensive weapons injured and Williams missing several games the offense was better than the defense statistically. The middle of the defensive line needs some big time help. The O line does too but there aren't any centers or great tackles that are going to be there when the Niners pick. The best tackles will likely be gone since there aren't many in this draft. They can probably get guard or tackle rounds 2-5 that will be just as good as one available at #11. That is unless one of the 2 top guys slides back. Then you have have to wonder why he wasn't taken.

If they are not taken could be the team needed other positions or the T was injured. I it's hard to not take a tackle since we are drafting high but I agree the DL also needs serious attention.

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Even with many of the offensive weapons injured and Williams missing several games the offense was better than the defense statistically. The middle of the defensive line needs some big time help. The O line does too but there aren't any centers or great tackles that are going to be there when the Niners pick. The best tackles will likely be gone since there aren't many in this draft. They can probably get guard or tackle rounds 2-5 that will be just as good as one available at #11. That is unless one of the 2 top guys slides back. Then you have have to wonder why he wasn't taken.

If they are not taken could be the team needed other positions or the T was injured. I it's hard to not take a tackle since we are drafting high but I agree the DL also needs serious attention.

take bpa at 11. Draft 2-3 tackles later on hoping one hits.

sign Dalman as our one big FA acquisition. Resign Bartch. Use a high pick on a LG and role with Trent/Puni/Colton.
Would be a massive upgrade over last year. Obviously huge need to draft additional pieces that can develop in the draft and depth FA.

Originally posted by Sask49erFan:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Rather they bring Bartch back then Banks.

Agreed. Bartch and a rookie can do better than Banks. Don't be surprised to see Burford over there. Banks is overrated

Bartch played a whopping 65 snaps last year. In what world is he better than Banks?

When healthy Banks is 10X better and a far superior player.

1. Cheaper
2. In those 65 snaps he performed a lot better than Banks did last year

I understand guys playing hurt impacts performance but while Banks has been solid playing next to Trent Williams...we've seen first hand that guys who have that type of success don't tend to be worth a pay raise. Banks isn't coming back and Bartch shouldn't cost much. Smart move to bring him back and let Banks walk.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Even with many of the offensive weapons injured and Williams missing several games the offense was better than the defense statistically. The middle of the defensive line needs some big time help. The O line does too but there aren't any centers or great tackles that are going to be there when the Niners pick. The best tackles will likely be gone since there aren't many in this draft. They can probably get guard or tackle rounds 2-5 that will be just as good as one available at #11. That is unless one of the 2 top guys slides back. Then you have have to wonder why he wasn't taken.

If they are not taken could be the team needed other positions or the T was injured. I it's hard to not take a tackle since we are drafting high but I agree the DL also needs serious attention.

take bpa at 11. Draft 2-3 tackles later on hoping one hits.

In this draft I agree.... The best tackle may be a Mcglinchy and DT maybe Buckner. Take the BPA in an area of desperate need.

While I like Jonnydel's film breakdowns, the problem he has is that he looks at things solipsistically. He will look at a bunch of plays and go, "this guy didn't make his block, that guy should have done this," etc., but what he doesn't think about is the fact that people breaking down film on the other team would go, "good job by this lineman of getting off that block, this guy is good against the run," etc.

Of course, the situation would be reversed when the 49ers succeed. The film analyst on the other side would go, "that guy has got to do a better job against this 49ers' lineman," etc.

Jonnydel's film analysis style leads to fans thinking that offensive line is some kind of problem, first of all, and secondly, that "line play" is based on the caliber of players you put up front (it's not...it's all scheme for the running game and all QB pocket presence, processing, and release for protection).

Here's the reality: The 49ers were 7th in yards per carry and 15th in sack percentage.

Furthermore, when the 49ers did seemingly have "protection" problems, it was usually from the blitz, and had nothing to do with the actual offensive line. It was either a lack of a hot read to go to (which is Kyle Shanahan's fault), or a back not doing the job in blitz pickup (which is also largely Kyle Shanahan's fault, since he thinks he can pound running backs like it's 2005 and then the team winds up with 4th stringers trying to pick up the blitz).

The caliber of an offensive lineman is in no way linked to offensive performance of any kind. They hold absolutely no value. They're interchangeable. There are some guys who are so bad that they're not NFL caliber, but those guys generally get benched very quickly.

Remember how horrible a guard Zane Beadles was? Peyton Manning set records with him starting in front of him. You have to be even worse than that to not be good enough.

Don't waste big picks or major cap space on offensive line.

Hate to break it to you, but we're not taking a T in the first. Colton McKivitz gave us roughly McGlinchy's same performance (according to PFF) at 1/4 the cost. He's not going anywhere.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
While I like Jonnydel's film breakdowns, the problem he has is that he looks at things solipsistically. He will look at a bunch of plays and go, "this guy didn't make his block, that guy should have done this," etc., but what he doesn't think about is the fact that people breaking down film on the other team would go, "good job by this lineman of getting off that block, this guy is good against the run," etc.

Of course, the situation would be reversed when the 49ers succeed. The film analyst on the other side would go, "that guy has got to do a better job against this 49ers' lineman," etc.

Jonnydel's film analysis style leads to fans thinking that offensive line is some kind of problem, first of all, and secondly, that "line play" is based on the caliber of players you put up front (it's not...it's all scheme for the running game and all QB pocket presence, processing, and release for protection).

Here's the reality: The 49ers were 7th in yards per carry and 15th in sack percentage.

Furthermore, when the 49ers did seemingly have "protection" problems, it was usually from the blitz, and had nothing to do with the actual offensive line. It was either a lack of a hot read to go to (which is Kyle Shanahan's fault), or a back not doing the job in blitz pickup (which is also largely Kyle Shanahan's fault, since he thinks he can pound running backs like it's 2005 and then the team winds up with 4th stringers trying to pick up the blitz).

The caliber of an offensive lineman is in no way linked to offensive performance of any kind. They hold absolutely no value. They're interchangeable. There are some guys who are so bad that they're not NFL caliber, but those guys generally get benched very quickly.

Remember how horrible a guard Zane Beadles was? Peyton Manning set records with him starting in front of him. You have to be even worse than that to not be good enough.

Don't waste big picks or major cap space on offensive line.

Funny you mention jonny's breakdowns when he pointed out how much better Bartch was playing over Banks.

I also don't understand your point at all...film is the best way to identify who is playing well and who isn't. You site overall performance as something that trumps the individual film review which I don't get at all...

A lot goes into a play being successful. You can have success with poor OL play, doesn't mean you shouldn't want to improve on it. Film review by fans or even former players who aren't in the locker room may not be 100% right all the time, especially when analyzing what should happen on a play because there are some assumptions that are made. It's why sometimes you'll see a certain play broken down and may have a couple of former players disagree on what should've happened.

Ultimately Kyle and the coaches here have the facts - they know how the play they called should be executed and they can figure out if it was executed properly or where the faults were.

Sometimes the other team's players are just better.

And not sure why you're bringing up Zane Beadles who was a LG for Denver. Not like Beadles was an UDFA either, he was taken in the top half of round 2. The rest of the starters during those Manning years you mention were 12th overall LT, another top 2nd round pick at RT a proven vet at C who started for 9 seasons with NE and obviously the skill players Manning had also helped.

Addressing the OL is critical in making sure this team can get over their failures when other teams stop our run game or we're forced to pass due to the score situation.

Yes communication and picking up the blitz its a key part of this as well but improving the Center position will go a long way, as will Kyle giving Brock some of those protection calls which can help in critical moments. But you improve the OL and you improve all aspects of executing plays on offense. It should be something every fan is behind at this point.

Originally posted by FootballExpert49ers:
While I like Jonnydel's film breakdowns, the problem he has is that he looks at things solipsistically. He will look at a bunch of plays and go, "this guy didn't make his block, that guy should have done this," etc., but what he doesn't think about is the fact that people breaking down film on the other team would go, "good job by this lineman of getting off that block, this guy is good against the run," etc.

Of course, the situation would be reversed when the 49ers succeed. The film analyst on the other side would go, "that guy has got to do a better job against this 49ers' lineman," etc.

Jonnydel's film analysis style leads to fans thinking that offensive line is some kind of problem, first of all, and secondly, that "line play" is based on the caliber of players you put up front (it's not...it's all scheme for the running game and all QB pocket presence, processing, and release for protection).

Here's the reality: The 49ers were 7th in yards per carry and 15th in sack percentage.

Furthermore, when the 49ers did seemingly have "protection" problems, it was usually from the blitz, and had nothing to do with the actual offensive line. It was either a lack of a hot read to go to (which is Kyle Shanahan's fault), or a back not doing the job in blitz pickup (which is also largely Kyle Shanahan's fault, since he thinks he can pound running backs like it's 2005 and then the team winds up with 4th stringers trying to pick up the blitz).

The caliber of an offensive lineman is in no way linked to offensive performance of any kind. They hold absolutely no value. They're interchangeable. There are some guys who are so bad that they're not NFL caliber, but those guys generally get benched very quickly.

Remember how horrible a guard Zane Beadles was? Peyton Manning set records with him starting in front of him. You have to be even worse than that to not be good enough.

Don't waste big picks or major cap space on offensive line.

Where's your film break down?

SHUSH!! NO SHUSH!!

I don't think we'll draft a Tackle at #11. Although I'd like one.

Does anyone know how last years 1st & 2nd round Offensive line draftees did during the season? Were they worth it?

Eagles proved that the O line and D line are critical to winning and cannot be ignored in the draft

Originally posted by maxsmart:
Eagles proved that the O line and D line are critical to winning and cannot be ignored in the draft

We ignore them both every year. To pick yet more WR's and RB's.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
I don't think we'll draft a Tackle at #11. Although I'd like one.

Does anyone know how last years 1st & 2nd round Offensive line draftees did during the season? Were they worth it?

Some were. Some weren't.

Originally posted by maxsmart:
Eagles proved that the O line and D line are critical to winning and cannot be ignored in the draft

I'm not saying the Oline and Dline aren't critical to winning, but I feel coaching has a bigger part in this. Both Eagles and Chiefs have great lines, Eagles have a better Dline, but the Eagles and Chiefs are both great. The eagles Dline came in with a better game plan on how to attack the Chiefs Oline and they wanted it more and got it done.

That plus the refs actually not favoring the Chiefs were big factors in the Eagles winning.