49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
You guys are right about Davis. I guess I just woke up this morning feeling desperate about our Oline situation. We've all waited so long for this season to start and I really hope it doesn't get derailed because our Oline issues aren't resolved. We have all the skill players in place, but it wont matter if we can't open lanes or hold a block...

Nah, it's just more about what he COULD have meant to us...we financially took care of him, he has ZBS experience, he could have come into camp in great shape, fired up and then all we had to worry about was the C/G positions. I think that's what makes him the biggest loss of the off season IMHO. This loss hurts badly.

Pears would have been a nice backup compared to J.Martin (but now he's forced to start)...also, had we known, we could have addressed T in FA and/or the draft more, etc. Davis deserves a big Twitter F--U!

Originally posted by jreff22:
If Kilgore was back I would have 0 doubt that Staley, Boone, and Kilgore would be doing fine. This speaks more about Martin, Pears, and Thomas.

I think those concerns are completely fair. I think Thomas, Martin, and Looney are three guys that have the size and talent to succeed in this system. I like the coach. I think it may take time, and I think they are currently being overwhelmed by the physicality of the defensive front, but I think theis line will round into shape. The 2011 line struggled throughout the preseason, and into the 1st 2 weeks if the regular season (remember Staley's "we don't suck" line?). I don't know when this line will get it together, but I believe they will.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jreff22:
What exactly is spot on?

Martin is getting beat so I'm not sure where the extra strength comes into play? The fact that we didn't move Boone to RT, freeing up both LG and RG for competition is an indicator about how these guards aren't just plug and play.

What did the O line look like in TC 2011? Garbage. Abused every day in TC and embarassed in one-on-ones. We won 13 regular season games that year, with the O Line paving the way. Change takes time, and no element of the team is more impacted by change than the O line. Everyone (EVERYone) will tell you that you can't play fast while you are thinking. No one (other than QB) has more to process on a given play than the OL. Their learning as they play. They need reps, they need film sessions, and they need to settle into their scheme and technique. The talent is there, it really is. Factors such as health and coaching will influence how quickly everything comes together. I like Foerster. Kilgore's long recovery is a bummer. We'll see.

WRATH is THE resident expert on the OL. Trust me on that one...

We've got time...try to keep it in context...new personnel, young talent, new schemes, language and terminology, new coaches, new style and philosophy, etc. facing a very experienced front 7 that has the ability to be tops in the NFL. Not a single player along that front 7 even needs to 'think' at this point. They can just play.

If Kilgore was back I would have 0 doubt that Staley, Boone, and Kilgore would be doing fine. This speaks more about Martin, Pears, and Thomas.

I very much agree with that. Right now, the vets are having fun with M.Martin and Pears and Thomas. It really IS a trail-by-fire right now. We'll have to see how mentally strong they are right now as well as physically. They are having to learn and think while they play and that's hard at first. Repetition, repetition, repetition, etc. Foerster and Wolford have their work cut out for them, no doubt!

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jreff22:
If Kilgore was back I would have 0 doubt that Staley, Boone, and Kilgore would be doing fine. This speaks more about Martin, Pears, and Thomas.

I think those concerns are completely fair. I think Thomas, Martin, and Looney are three guys that have the size and talent to succeed in this system. I like the coach. I think it may take time, and I think they are currently being overwhelmed by the physicality of the defensive front, but I think theis line will round into shape. The 2011 line struggled throughout the preseason, and into the 1st 2 weeks if the regular season (remember Staley's "we don't suck" line?). I don't know when this line will get it together, but I believe they will.

Same. If not, Geep/Logan are going to have to do the following to scheme around it...courtesy of Niners816:

I say if the OL really does struggle then how I would personally combat it would be the following:
1.) more Gun Forms-gets the QB back already
2.) screens and Draws-I know we can draw, can we be effective in the screen game.
3.) more actions passes- waggles, naked, sprints and rolls. Move the launch point of the QB.
4.) quicker developing concepts- slant-flat, spot, drive etc. quick hitting stuff.
5.) I green light the QB to run at will.

I know this sounds backwards, but this is exactly what Wilson does in Seattle and it greatly reduces pass rush. Now it remains to be seen how bad this OL actually is. I suspect this is early camp struggles learning a new scheme. Remember how bad the OL looked in preseason of 2011....I'm sure they will get it figured out.

I'm actually not that worried about Pears. I know that sounds crazy. He's always been a reliable pass protector, and he has been responsible for far less pressures and sacks than Davis. He has NOT been a very good drive blocker, so i am a bit concerned about the professed desire to pull Boone from the left to run power to the right. He has been a productive blocker on zone runs. Buffalo fans were pretty upset when he went down for the year in 2012. He REALLY struggled in Marrone's man/gap offense the last two years (inexplicable that Marrone went that way, since he was all ZBS under Payton several years back), and that's become the book on him, since it's hard for anyone watching the NFL to maintain a 2+ year memory.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

I'm actually not that worried about Pears. I know that sounds crazy. He's always been a reliable pass protector, and he has been responsible for far less pressures and sacks than Davis. He has NOT been a very good drive blocker, so i am a bit concerned about the professed desire to pull Boone from the left to run power to the right. He has been a productive blocker on zone runs. Buffalo fans were pretty upset when he went down for the year in 2012. He REALLY struggled in Marrone's man/gap offense the last two years (inexplicable that Marrone went that way, since he was all ZBS under Payton several years back), and that's become the book on him, since it's hard for anyone watching the NFL to maintain a 2+ year memory.

Problem is we play in arguably the hardest division. Buffalo didn't play Sea, Arz, and St Louis twice a year. That's a whole different level of DL play and skill.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jreff22:
If Kilgore was back I would have 0 doubt that Staley, Boone, and Kilgore would be doing fine. This speaks more about Martin, Pears, and Thomas.

I think those concerns are completely fair. I think Thomas, Martin, and Looney are three guys that have the size and talent to succeed in this system. I like the coach. I think it may take time, and I think they are currently being overwhelmed by the physicality of the defensive front, but I think theis line will round into shape. The 2011 line struggled throughout the preseason, and into the 1st 2 weeks if the regular season (remember Staley's "we don't suck" line?). I don't know when this line will get it together, but I believe they will.

Same. If not, Geep/Logan are going to have to do the following to scheme around it...courtesy of Niners816:

I say if the OL really does struggle then how I would personally combat it would be the following:
1.) more Gun Forms-gets the QB back already
2.) screens and Draws-I know we can draw, can we be effective in the screen game.
3.) more actions passes- waggles, naked, sprints and rolls. Move the launch point of the QB.
4.) quicker developing concepts- slant-flat, spot, drive etc. quick hitting stuff.
5.) I green light the QB to run at will.

6.) Move Boone to RT

Baalke is going to have to:

7.) Sign Mathis

I know this sounds backwards, but this is exactly what Wilson does in Seattle and it greatly reduces pass rush. Now it remains to be seen how bad this OL actually is. I suspect this is early camp struggles learning a new scheme. Remember how bad the OL looked in preseason of 2011....I'm sure they will get it figured out.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I'm actually not that worried about Pears. I know that sounds crazy. He's always been a reliable pass protector, and he has been responsible for far less pressures and sacks than Davis. He has NOT been a very good drive blocker, so i am a bit concerned about the professed desire to pull Boone from the left to run power to the right. He has been a productive blocker on zone runs. Buffalo fans were pretty upset when he went down for the year in 2012. He REALLY struggled in Marrone's man/gap offense the last two years (inexplicable that Marrone went that way, since he was all ZBS under Payton several years back), and that's become the book on him, since it's hard for anyone watching the NFL to maintain a 2+ year memory.

Problem is we play in arguably the hardest division. Buffalo didn't play Sea, Arz, and St Louis twice a year. That's a whole different level of DL play and skill.

Okay, I'll play this game. Where did Mathis play.

I think Sheldon Richardson and Muhammed Wilkerson on the same line is scarier than whatever the the NFCE can put on the field.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Okay, I'll play this game. Where did Mathis play.

I think Sheldon Richardson and Muhammed Wilkerson on the same line is scarier than whatever the the NFCE can put on the field.

Wrath, do you think it would be beneficial to sign Mathis? Would it make the line better?
Excluding the amount!

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I'm actually not that worried about Pears. I know that sounds crazy. He's always been a reliable pass protector, and he has been responsible for far less pressures and sacks than Davis. He has NOT been a very good drive blocker, so i am a bit concerned about the professed desire to pull Boone from the left to run power to the right. He has been a productive blocker on zone runs. Buffalo fans were pretty upset when he went down for the year in 2012. He REALLY struggled in Marrone's man/gap offense the last two years (inexplicable that Marrone went that way, since he was all ZBS under Payton several years back), and that's become the book on him, since it's hard for anyone watching the NFL to maintain a 2+ year memory.

Problem is we play in arguably the hardest division. Buffalo didn't play Sea, Arz, and St Louis twice a year. That's a whole different level of DL play and skill.

Okay, I'll play this game. Where did Mathis play.

I think Sheldon Richardson and Muhammed Wilkerson on the same line is scarier than whatever the the NFCE can put on the field.

JPP, Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka > Richardson and Wilkerson

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I'm actually not that worried about Pears. I know that sounds crazy. He's always been a reliable pass protector, and he has been responsible for far less pressures and sacks than Davis. He has NOT been a very good drive blocker, so i am a bit concerned about the professed desire to pull Boone from the left to run power to the right. He has been a productive blocker on zone runs. Buffalo fans were pretty upset when he went down for the year in 2012. He REALLY struggled in Marrone's man/gap offense the last two years (inexplicable that Marrone went that way, since he was all ZBS under Payton several years back), and that's become the book on him, since it's hard for anyone watching the NFL to maintain a 2+ year memory.

Problem is we play in arguably the hardest division. Buffalo didn't play Sea, Arz, and St Louis twice a year. That's a whole different level of DL play and skill.

Okay, I'll play this game. Where did Mathis play.

I think Sheldon Richardson and Muhammed Wilkerson on the same line is scarier than whatever the the NFCE can put on the field.

JPP, Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka > Richardson and Wilkerson

Maybe 5 years ago...

edit: Both the NYJ guys were demons against the run and pass. Can the NYG say that about anyone, except Tuck? Can they even say that about Tuck recently?

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Okay, I'll play this game. Where did Mathis play.

I think Sheldon Richardson and Muhammed Wilkerson on the same line is scarier than whatever the the NFCE can put on the field.

Wrath, do you think it would be beneficial to sign Mathis? Would it make the line better?
Excluding the amount!

For sure, for now at least. he could definitely help some guys with some tips and vet advice on ZBS techniques and old guy tricks. Maybe Thomas and Martin could both benefit from a healthy year to practice and learn. I don't know that yet. I do know that Mathis is getting up there in age, and that he's clearly not yet willing to accept a 1 year deal. If he falls off in a year (or this year), We enter next year looking to possibly replace both him and Boone (see also: more upheaval on the line). I get worried when a guy that seems like a top-shelf FA sits for months w/o a deal. Maybe the league knows something we don't. I haven't watched any of his stuff from late last year. Maybe there were hints that he was falling off/fighting nagging injuries?

By how bummed the Philly fans were, I think it's just price and ego...

Originally posted by HarboutTHAT:
By how bummed the Philly fans were, I think it's just price and ego...

Fans aren't always the most accurate indicator...

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jreff22:
If Kilgore was back I would have 0 doubt that Staley, Boone, and Kilgore would be doing fine. This speaks more about Martin, Pears, and Thomas.

I think those concerns are completely fair. I think Thomas, Martin, and Looney are three guys that have the size and talent to succeed in this system. I like the coach. I think it may take time, and I think they are currently being overwhelmed by the physicality of the defensive front, but I think theis line will round into shape. The 2011 line struggled throughout the preseason, and into the 1st 2 weeks if the regular season (remember Staley's "we don't suck" line?). I don't know when this line will get it together, but I believe they will.

Same. If not, Geep/Logan are going to have to do the following to scheme around it...courtesy of Niners816:

I say if the OL really does struggle then how I would personally combat it would be the following:
1.) more Gun Forms-gets the QB back already
2.) screens and Draws-I know we can draw, can we be effective in the screen game.
3.) more actions passes- waggles, naked, sprints and rolls. Move the launch point of the QB.
4.) quicker developing concepts- slant-flat, spot, drive etc. quick hitting stuff.
5.) I green light the QB to run at will.

6.) Move Boone to RT

Baalke is going to have to:

7.) Sign Mathis

I know this sounds backwards, but this is exactly what Wilson does in Seattle and it greatly reduces pass rush. Now it remains to be seen how bad this OL actually is. I suspect this is early camp struggles learning a new scheme. Remember how bad the OL looked in preseason of 2011....I'm sure they will get it figured out.

Bingo!