49ers Offensive Line

Not sure why they don't sign Mathis? They have over $12 million in cap space now and no Aldon Smith contract looming in 2016.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So if AD tries to make a come back in 2016, I assume we still have his rights? It would be stupid just to release him. We should either pawn him before he changes his mind, or keep him at a reduced salary.

For all we know he's just saying he's coming back so we dont draft someone next year. Once its over, he'll screw us again.

Is there any possible chance this was really about money and we are witnessing a hold out?

Good call man!

I mentioned that it would be much better to get something for him than get ZERO!

Even a mid-late round draft pick is better than nothing at all.

That said, IMO, with salaries rising and IF he wanted to return - putting him at RG might be an option?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Not sure why they don't sign Mathis? They have over $12 million in cap space now and no Aldon Smith contract looming in 2016.

maybe b/c we have Martin, Thomas and Boone already.

I miss McKittrick :(

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Exciting to hear folks so positive about the interior linemen. Boone, Kilgore, Martin, Thomas, Farrell, Looney and Tiller seem to all be competitive and capable. Now they need to move Boone to RT, or LT with Staley switching to RT, in order to solidify the OT position.

Moving Staley away from the blind side?

Yeah, I really don't get this. A lot of zoners are in a hurry to push Staley to the right side, in preparation for his trip to the rest home. Make no mistake, he's still our best OL, by a WIDE margin. Kilgore missed less blocks last year, but Staley had MUCH harder assignents on every play. Our offense leans incredibly heavily on Staley. He's the man. He's got at LEAST 3 more years at LT, at an elite level.

What boggles my mind is that Zoners are gnashing their teeth and screaming in the streets to get Mathis, who'll be 34 this season, but they're prepping for the retirement of Staley, who is much younger.

Interesting take WRATH!

IMO, Staley has been a very good LT for us.

I don't really know enough about Mathis one way or the other.

As far as him being 34 - How old was Larry Allen when he played for us? He played very well for a couple of years and IMO was worth every penny.

Is Mathis of his caliber??

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Interesting take WRATH!

IMO, Staley has been a very good LT for us.

I don't really know enough about Mathis one way or the other.

As far as him being 34 - How old was Larry Allen when he played for us? He played very well for a couple of years and IMO was worth every penny.

Is Mathis of his caliber??

Here's what I mainly remember Larry Allen for on the Niners - helpfully stepping aside and letting that Seahawk D-lineman pound Alex Smith into the turf, dislocating his shoulder and ruining him for a couple seasons.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Interesting take WRATH!

IMO, Staley has been a very good LT for us.

I don't really know enough about Mathis one way or the other.

As far as him being 34 - How old was Larry Allen when he played for us? He played very well for a couple of years and IMO was worth every penny.

Is Mathis of his caliber??

Here's what I mainly remember Larry Allen for on the Niners - helpfully stepping aside and letting that Seahawk D-lineman pound Alex Smith into the turf, dislocating his shoulder and ruining him for a couple seasons.

I'm sorry - maybe my age but I don't recall that.

I do recall him being very effective as a run blocker.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Yes at times, but there were many games opposing DLs just decided they weren't going to try and block LA.

Additionally, I can't compare Mathis and Allen. One is a HOFer and the other is good within a particular scheme. I think there's this sense of "grass looks greener" with Mathis. I trust the coaches to evaluate talent. However, I still have my worries about Forrester's first years.

WRATH and NCommand, I know, I know it was the talent but I'm still a little worried about his first year at multiple locations. I'm really hoping and praying things will be different.

No I think ANYONE that has concerns for the OL has real, legit reasons to feel that way. Lots of changes along the OL with a new scheme, youth, unproven, not battle tested, etc. Even Boone is 50/50 at having a good year. Staley is the only rock and he's had durability issues. This coaching staff is going to move the launch points, pound the DL's and get rid of the ball quickly...i.e. scheme away from pressure...if they can't gel quickly. And you know DC's are going to test them and CK a lot early and often. Who wouldn't?

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Not sure why they don't sign Mathis? They have over $12 million in cap space now and no Aldon Smith contract looming in 2016.

maybe b/c we have Martin, Thomas and Boone already.

I'm assuming so, don't get me wrong I've been preaching about them all off-season but when you have a chance to take arguably the best LG in the league (best in ZBS) how do you not kick the tires?

I'll be pissed if all I see all season is Kap running for his life like last season. I think Martin makes for a better center than a guard.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I'm assuming so, don't get me wrong I've been preaching about them all off-season but when you have a chance to take arguably the best LG in the league (best in ZBS) how do you not kick the tires?

I'll be pissed if all I see all season is Kap running for his life like last season. I think Martin makes for a better center than a guard.

I think you only bring him in if you move Boone to RT. Right now, it seems the plan is for Boone to stay at LG.

I am not comfortable at all with the situation at RT right now. I hope Brown or Pears show something in the preseason.

They got the money now after releasing Aldon Smith, That O Line needs help asap I will sighn Mathis Now if I where Balke

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Yes at times, but there were many games opposing DLs just decided they weren't going to try and block LA.

Additionally, I can't compare Mathis and Allen. One is a HOFer and the other is good within a particular scheme. I think there's this sense of "grass looks greener" with Mathis. I trust the coaches to evaluate talent. However, I still have my worries about Forrester's first years.

WRATH and NCommand, I know, I know it was the talent but I'm still a little worried about his first year at multiple locations. I'm really hoping and praying things will be different.

No I think ANYONE that has concerns for the OL has real, legit reasons to feel that way. Lots of changes along the OL with a new scheme, youth, unproven, not battle tested, etc. Even Boone is 50/50 at having a good year. Staley is the only rock and he's had durability issues. This coaching staff is going to move the launch points, pound the DL's and get rid of the ball quickly...i.e. scheme away from pressure...if they can't gel quickly. And you know DC's are going to test them and CK a lot early and often. Who wouldn't?

Agreed! This O-line is the biggest reason I have trouble being optimistic about this upcoming season. IF we had a top tier O-line, I'd believe that we could overcome all of the shiz that happened this off-season. All of the optimism about better offense in every facet won't mean didly squat if the line can't block. Understand, this line won't have to just be good or quality, they're gonna have to be GREAT. A mid-level O-line won't get it done. No sane person can truly believe that our defense will be as dominant as 2011-13. That means our offense will have to greatly increase. To increase, they're gonna have to be able to run when they want, pass when they want - which means that line has to open holes, hold up for 5 and 7 step drops and not hold anybody. That's gonna take a truly dominant offensive line. It doesn't matter if we have a burner and true "x" receiver if we can't hold up for 5 and 7 step drops. It doesn't matter how explosive Hyde, Hunter and Bush may be if the line can't move everyone out of the way. The playcalling won't matter nor CK's classwork if he doesn't have time to work through progressions 2-4.

Furthermore, even if our starting 5 is dominant - can we really be sure that we could take ANY injury to our O-line?? It's hard for me to believe that we have 6-8 of the best kept secret O-lineman in the league.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by thl408:
WRATH, what do you think of Joe Looney? I was not too impressed with him, but he's only 24 so I'm not closing the book on him. Was wondering if you've watched him closely.

He was inconsistent in the first game. Lots of correctable issues: false steps, high pad level, passive hands. He fixed alot of that in the next two starts. I like his nasty streak, and he has good feet for his size. If his improvement continued after Boone took back over, he should be able to do the job. He got a bad rap by writers and zoners from their first impressions in PS and week 1, but the guy is much better than the casual consensus on him, and he should be in contention for a starting spot. If Martin can't pull it together and Thomas knee is still on the way back, I wouldn't be worried if Looney starts. I'm equally confident with him holding down Center if Kilgore is out, provided that he can make the right calls. I have no insight into that.

edit: to add, he was a consistent pulling G on power, who rarely missed his guy, but never blew him up (complete opposite of Iupati). he was a little slow/hesitant on his drive blocks and occasionally got beaten accross his face on his down block when he was on the front side of power. Occasionally struggled with stunts in pass pro, but was pretty good when he was manned up.

Thanks Wrath--Looney is a vet who has been bashed at times and yet hasn't had the consistent playing time to develop. The negatives came, as you state, from early games at RG when he was playing next to J Martin and with inexperienced centers. I thought he was more consistent than Boone last year (due to the latter's holdout), while playing center and guard. Not sure he has the upside of Martin or Thomas but he can be part of a line that once jelled could be really good for years to come. People should remember that Looney is two years younger than Boone and at 24 is a very young guy just coming into his adult strength and maturity. I thought he may have played at too high a weight under JH trying to be a power line guy, while he is much better lighter when he can be more mobile. We'll see this year!

PFF had three games rated as very subpar, the rest were OK. The subpar games being against Dallas, Denver and Seattle makes sense.

Thanks guys, for that. Looks like I only seem to remember his bad plays as he seemed to grade out well. And I do 'excuse' him for having a rough game in SEA. Not a fun place to play. Very solid game vsARI in week 17.
I think with Kilgore taking long to recover, it provides an opening for Looney to show off what he has with the first team. I'm starting to have less and less confidence that BThomas will be a starter this season. He's basically taking part in his first NFL practices and I have to think Looney, Martin, Boone are further along than BThomas.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by thl408:
WRATH, what do you think of Joe Looney? I was not too impressed with him, but he's only 24 so I'm not closing the book on him. Was wondering if you've watched him closely.

He was inconsistent in the first game. Lots of correctable issues: false steps, high pad level, passive hands. He fixed alot of that in the next two starts. I like his nasty streak, and he has good feet for his size. If his improvement continued after Boone took back over, he should be able to do the job. He got a bad rap by writers and zoners from their first impressions in PS and week 1, but the guy is much better than the casual consensus on him, and he should be in contention for a starting spot. If Martin can't pull it together and Thomas knee is still on the way back, I wouldn't be worried if Looney starts. I'm equally confident with him holding down Center if Kilgore is out, provided that he can make the right calls. I have no insight into that.

edit: to add, he was a consistent pulling G on power, who rarely missed his guy, but never blew him up (complete opposite of Iupati). he was a little slow/hesitant on his drive blocks and occasionally got beaten accross his face on his down block when he was on the front side of power. Occasionally struggled with stunts in pass pro, but was pretty good when he was manned up.

Thanks Wrath--Looney is a vet who has been bashed at times and yet hasn't had the consistent playing time to develop. The negatives came, as you state, from early games at RG when he was playing next to J Martin and with inexperienced centers. I thought he was more consistent than Boone last year (due to the latter's holdout), while playing center and guard. Not sure he has the upside of Martin or Thomas but he can be part of a line that once jelled could be really good for years to come. People should remember that Looney is two years younger than Boone and at 24 is a very young guy just coming into his adult strength and maturity. I thought he may have played at too high a weight under JH trying to be a power line guy, while he is much better lighter when he can be more mobile. We'll see this year!

PFF had three games rated as very subpar, the rest were OK. The subpar games being against Dallas, Denver and Seattle makes sense.

Thanks guys, for that. Looks like I only seem to remember his bad plays as he seemed to grade out well. And I do 'excuse' him for having a rough game in SEA. Not a fun place to play. Very solid game vsARI in week 17.
I think with Kilgore taking long to recover, it provides an opening for Looney to show off what he has with the first team. I'm starting to have less and less confidence that BThomas will be a starter this season. He's basically taking part in his first NFL practices and I have to think Looney, Martin, Boone are further along than BThomas.

Yikes....his 3 worst games were the ones he started....lol.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Agreed! This O-line is the biggest reason I have trouble being optimistic about this upcoming season. IF we had a top tier O-line, I'd believe that we could overcome all of the shiz that happened this off-season. All of the optimism about better offense in every facet won't mean didly squat if the line can't block. Understand, this line won't have to just be good or quality, they're gonna have to be GREAT. A mid-level O-line won't get it done. No sane person can truly believe that our defense will be as dominant as 2011-13. That means our offense will have to greatly increase. To increase, they're gonna have to be able to run when they want, pass when they want - which means that line has to open holes, hold up for 5 and 7 step drops and not hold anybody. That's gonna take a truly dominant offensive line. It doesn't matter if we have a burner and true "x" receiver if we can't hold up for 5 and 7 step drops. It doesn't matter how explosive Hyde, Hunter and Bush may be if the line can't move everyone out of the way. The playcalling won't matter nor CK's classwork if he doesn't have time to work through progressions 2-4.

Furthermore, even if our starting 5 is dominant - can we really be sure that we could take ANY injury to our O-line?? It's hard for me to believe that we have 6-8 of the best kept secret O-lineman in the league.

I respect your work jonny, but I disagree. I think average to above average OL play will get the job done this year. Kap is even good under occasional pressure when his pocket is usually secure. Throwing to the backs and calling more screens can help keep defenses off balance. Booting Kap out of the pocket off of zone action can ease the burden on the OL in the run and pass, and using stretch runs to reach the outside will make inside zone (including zone read) more effective.

Coaches and Kap can do a lot to get success out of average OL play, imo.