49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by elguapo:
Boone started out the season as a poor guard and the last part of the season I believe he was a top 3 guard per PFF. He kicks ass as a guard and is a very good tackle

He was a beast in the running game, a liability in pass protection. The problem with PFF is they weight their ratings heavily toward the run game. Iupati was rated toward the top in run but around 25th in pass protection. When they came up with an overall rating it was top ten. Boone was likely impacted by the absense of Davis, but I don't see him as consistent enough to rate a top OG.

I wonder if they skew results towards the run for Gs and toward the pass for Ts. I think the run is frequently considered more importang for Gs because the pass pro responsibilities are much easier for Gs. I think that makes poor performance in pass pro more damning, since it's an easier job. Pressure up the middle is also MUCH more disruptive to the passing game. We clearly needed MUCH better pass pro last year. While JMart was terrible, our interior was consistently getting owned, as well.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I wonder if they skew results towards the run for Gs and toward the pass for Ts. I think the run is frequently considered more importang for Gs because the pass pro responsibilities are much easier for Gs. I think that makes poor performance in pass pro more damning, since it's an easier job. Pressure up the middle is also MUCH more disruptive to the passing game. We clearly needed MUCH better pass pro last year. While JMart was terrible, our interior was consistently getting owned, as well.

Hmm...good question! I'll try to take a look at it. But gut instinct tells me people find it easier to see and rate run blocking but unless you know the line call it's more difficult to analyze pass protection. I recall Staley yelling at Iupati a few years ago when he allowed blitzes between the two and Staley was tied up with an outside speed rusher. I've watched both Iupati and Boone allow blitzes inside without making a move to cut them off. They either lack instinct to pass block or are just too slow to make that shift at the last minute...or both.

But I also blame the line schemes. They so seldom create a pocket and it looks like they try not to drop. Maybe they aren't very good at drop steps so the line tries to keep the LOS static. Or they are trying to give Kaepernick more options to see and adjust to the rush. Just don't know why they couldn't be better if it wasn't lack of quickness--they were definately strong enough.

Now that trent is running the whole show I am expecting a much better match with personel and offensive scheme.
What will be the emphasis on? Power run as we have been doing for the past years or ZBS with our new "expert ZBS coaches"?
i have confidence on JS and AD I believe that both are athletic enough to run either scheme. All the other oline I don't have confidence in, either because I have not seen them play or I have.
IMO we need to have lineman that can pass block first and run block second, this means they will be quicker footed and therefore more able to get out on the edge for screens and maximize the strengths of Reggie and Hunter, running In open space. As noted here in NT by the great thl we ran four screens last year and they were pretty sad.
My question is if we move to a ZBS which of our current interior lineman best fit the scheme? And conversely if we stay with a power run(not ZBS) who fits that best?
What I want to see is the best players for whatever system we are running, if that means Boone sits then so be it, no more excuses.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I wonder if they skew results towards the run for Gs and toward the pass for Ts. I think the run is frequently considered more importang for Gs because the pass pro responsibilities are much easier for Gs. I think that makes poor performance in pass pro more damning, since it's an easier job. Pressure up the middle is also MUCH more disruptive to the passing game. We clearly needed MUCH better pass pro last year. While JMart was terrible, our interior was consistently getting owned, as well.

Reading through the site method I don't see a different grading system between G and T. But they do norm the pass blocking because the only evaluation they make are negative plays. They use a norming process from previous years to set a standard and then compare the pass blocking to that norm. Iupati was off the chart on run blocking and it skewed the system, I'll email them and ask if they are aware of this and what they will do to increase accuracy.

Was thinking about pass blocking and why the niners failed to be effective. All of us have commented on agility or "good feet" often and that is one of the keys to pass blocking. Staying in front of the defender is the key, even if you are pushed toward the QB. It allows the QB to adjust around you rather than being grabbed...most of the time. A Davis has really good feet but when his weight is high he loses some balance and becomes less effective. What I'm hoping is that with M Martin and Thomas they maintain power but add agility. I'm also hoping the 9ers can use their backups during games once in a while rather than waiting for injuries. I don't want to see a DL guy in the backfield for blocking! I've been trying to watch video of Boone to see if his feet are quicker than I recall...but I just don't think he is quick enough to pass block effectively.

One thing I haven't seen discussed very much is vision. OLmen need to be aware of what's going on around them at all times. There were so many occassions where Iupati and Boone sold out to one side, usually the tackles, and lost sight of the space on the other side. Most of the time the tackle was fine and didnt need the help so they gave up sacks due to lack of vision or awareness. That's either concentration lapses or lack of vision...or both. I'm hoping Thomas and M Martin can improve this area.

boy, is that ever the truth. Sometimes I was yelling at the TV, "look to your left (or right)". Lack of awareness as to where opponents are is a big boo boo. All the OT has to do is block to the outside to get snookered in side. But the idea is supposed to be to look everywhere on all plays.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Reading through the site method I don't see a different grading system between G and T. But they do norm the pass blocking because the only evaluation they make are negative plays. They use a norming process from previous years to set a standard and then compare the pass blocking to that norm. Iupati was off the chart on run blocking and it skewed the system, I'll email them and ask if they are aware of this and what they will do to increase accuracy.

Was thinking about pass blocking and why the niners failed to be effective. All of us have commented on agility or "good feet" often and that is one of the keys to pass blocking. Staying in front of the defender is the key, even if you are pushed toward the QB. It allows the QB to adjust around you rather than being grabbed...most of the time. A Davis has really good feet but when his weight is high he loses some balance and becomes less effective. What I'm hoping is that with M Martin and Thomas they maintain power but add agility. I'm also hoping the 9ers can use their backups during games once in a while rather than waiting for injuries. I don't want to see a DL guy in the backfield for blocking! I've been trying to watch video of Boone to see if his feet are quicker than I recall...but I just don't think he is quick enough to pass block effectively.

One thing I haven't seen discussed very much is vision. OLmen need to be aware of what's going on around them at all times. There were so many occassions where Iupati and Boone sold out to one side, usually the tackles, and lost sight of the space on the other side. Most of the time the tackle was fine and didnt need the help so they gave up sacks due to lack of vision or awareness. That's either concentration lapses or lack of vision...or both. I'm hoping Thomas and M Martin can improve this area.

I think it's as much communication and cooperation as it is teamwork. That's why I'm hopeful for an emphasis on the ZBS.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I think it's as much communication and cooperation as it is teamwork. That's why I'm hopeful for an emphasis on the ZBS.

Same here, which means ZBS almost all the time. No more OL looking around wondering where they should go... No surprises for Kaepernick!

Can Looney excell in a zbs?

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:
Can Looney excell in a zbs?

I think so. He's a good athlete, and he's a lot better than the general opinion of him. I think he got called out by some local writers who don't know enough to grade OL play. He didn't have many negative plays, but he had a handful of ugly ones that got a lot of attention. At least two of them were because he got hung out to dry by another OL (cough cough *JMart).

I like his nasty streak, too. Davis is the only other guy carrying some chippiness into the game. I watched Looney try to legally (ish) bust a dude's head on a PAT.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I think it's as much communication and cooperation as it is teamwork. That's why I'm hopeful for an emphasis on the ZBS.

instead of "teamwork," I meant to say "vision." I think a lot of the time, they see the new threat looping around, but don't communicate the threat to the guy the looper is hidden from, so he gets surprised and can't adjust in time. Similarly, I don't think our guys pass off blocks very well before they engage a new threat. ZBS could help that tremendously.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

I think so. He's a good athlete, and he's a lot better than the general opinion of him. I think he got called out by some local writers who don't know enough to grade OL play. He didn't have many negative plays, but he had a handful of ugly ones that got a lot of attention. At least two of them were because he got hung out to dry by another OL (cough cough *JMart).

I like his nasty streak, too. Davis is the only other guy carrying some chippiness into the game. I watched Looney try to legally (ish) bust a dude's head on a PAT.

I was ashamed of what he did to Kevin Williams. But other than that I have always been pretty impressed with his athleticism considering he looks so busted and out of shape lol.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
instead of "teamwork," I meant to say "vision." I think a lot of the time, they see the new threat looping around, but don't communicate the threat to the guy the looper is hidden from, so he gets surprised and can't adjust in time. Similarly, I don't think our guys pass off blocks very well before they engage a new threat. ZBS could help that tremendously.

I figured that...no harm no fowl...but missing a chance to mock you! LOL!

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I think so. He's a good athlete, and he's a lot better than the general opinion of him. I think he got called out by some local writers who don't know enough to grade OL play. He didn't have many negative plays, but he had a handful of ugly ones that got a lot of attention. At least two of them were because he got hung out to dry by another OL (cough cough *JMart).

I like his nasty streak, too. Davis is the only other guy carrying some chippiness into the game. I watched Looney try to legally (ish) bust a dude's head on a PAT.

I was ashamed of what he did to Kevin Williams. But other than that I have always been pretty impressed with his athleticism considering he looks so busted and out of shape lol.

Yeah, that was messed up. Nasty doesn't have to be dirty. Don't know WTF he was thinking.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I think so. He's a good athlete, and he's a lot better than the general opinion of him. I think he got called out by some local writers who don't know enough to grade OL play. He didn't have many negative plays, but he had a handful of ugly ones that got a lot of attention. At least two of them were because he got hung out to dry by another OL (cough cough *JMart).

I like his nasty streak, too. Davis is the only other guy carrying some chippiness into the game. I watched Looney try to legally (ish) bust a dude's head on a PAT.

I was ashamed of what he did to Kevin Williams. But other than that I have always been pretty impressed with his athleticism considering he looks so busted and out of shape lol.

Yeah, that was messed up. Nasty doesn't have to be dirty. Don't know WTF he was thinking.

Never know if it was payback, which I hope it was...still not necessary or smart. Soured me on him for a while but one incident does not a career make.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I think so. He's a good athlete, and he's a lot better than the general opinion of him. I think he got called out by some local writers who don't know enough to grade OL play. He didn't have many negative plays, but he had a handful of ugly ones that got a lot of attention. At least two of them were because he got hung out to dry by another OL (cough cough *JMart).

I like his nasty streak, too. Davis is the only other guy carrying some chippiness into the game. I watched Looney try to legally (ish) bust a dude's head on a PAT.

I was ashamed of what he did to Kevin Williams. But other than that I have always been pretty impressed with his athleticism considering he looks so busted and out of shape lol.

Yeah, that was messed up. Nasty doesn't have to be dirty. Don't know WTF he was thinking.

Never know if it was payback, which I hope it was...still not necessary or smart. Soured me on him for a while but one incident does not a career make.

What else did you expect? The dude is Looney...