Offseason Film analysis thread - Passing concepts

Originally posted by thl408:

couldn't Kap still have gotten the ball to VD? correct throw or not

Originally posted by defenderDX:
couldn't Kap still have gotten the ball to VD? correct throw or not

I would say yes. But if he's reading the movement of the key defender (the deep safety), then the correct throw is to Boldin. He got clobbered just as he released the throw, so perhaps he just thought, "deep safety removed, throw to outside Post".


side note: Notice what the 49ers had to do to sell the playaction here. They pulled Iupati. This is what Power run teams have to do to fully sell playaction. ZBS teams do not have to do this.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
couldn't Kap still have gotten the ball to VD? correct throw or not

I would say yes. But if he's reading the movement of the key defender (the deep safety), then the correct throw is to Boldin. He got clobbered just as he released the throw, so perhaps he just thought, "deep safety removed, throw to outside Post".

Great point. Middle of field completely vacated. besides it's a much harder throw to make to VD anyways you have to think

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:

couldn't Kap still have gotten the ball to VD? correct throw or not

Also on that play look at gore coming out of the backfield. He worked the concept great, but teams would simply leave our backs free. We never made that adjustment. The new staff must make the backs get defended. It'll open everything up.

From 2012, when Kap was hitting his targets left and right on the downfield throws.

Double Posts versus cover1
22 personnel


Key defender (blue) remains in the middle of the field when the inside post (DWalker) crosses his face.


Mid windup. Correct throw is to the inside Post.


Ball just got caught.




It's pretty. It's so pretty.

^^^^that late season offense in 2012 was the closest to a championship level attack we had since 1998.

Originally posted by Niners816:
^^^^that late season offense in 2012 was the closest to a championship level attack we had since 1998.

The Justin Smith injury was s**t luck.

Originally posted by BodhiPaddlesOut:

Originally posted by Niners816:

^^^^that late season offense in 2012 was the closest to a championship level attack we had since 1998.

The Justin Smith injury was s**t luck.

That really is it...if the defense plays like 2011, pre injury 2012, or 2013 we coast to probably 10-14 pt win in SB47

Almost looked like a pocket...but that can't be right...

Originally posted by thl408:
From 2012, when Kap was hitting his targets left and right on the downfield throws.

Double Posts versus cover1
22 personnel


Key defender (blue) remains in the middle of the field when the inside post (DWalker) crosses his face.


Mid windup. Correct throw is to the inside Post.


Ball just got caught.




It's pretty. It's so pretty.

I don't believe in "regression". It just doesn't happen in real life all that often. So how do you explain 2012 and then 2015? It's impossible for me to regress at my job. 2015 was just an anomaly. Harbaugh was on the way out, key offensive line injuries, our only speed guy was injured and it was just too much to overcome.

No one of these factors exists in a bubble. Kap will be fine.

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
I don't believe in "regression". It just doesn't happen in real life all that often. So how do you explain 2012 and then 2015? It's impossible for me to regress at my job. 2015 was just an anomaly. Harbaugh was on the way out, key offensive line injuries, our only speed guy was injured and it was just too much to overcome.

No one of these factors exists in a bubble. Kap will be fine.

Injury/different starters (four starting centers), assuming new plays will be as effective as the old ones, assuming a player will be able to learn how to be a pocket passer when there are no pockets...so many ways! Football is the ultimate team sport and any major change can be devastating. Going from Goodwin to Kilgore was a significant change. Then losing Kilgore, M Martin and Looney for games...and Looney playing hurt...and Farrell...ouch!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
I don't believe in "regression". It just doesn't happen in real life all that often. So how do you explain 2012 and then 2015? It's impossible for me to regress at my job. 2015 was just an anomaly. Harbaugh was on the way out, key offensive line injuries, our only speed guy was injured and it was just too much to overcome.

No one of these factors exists in a bubble. Kap will be fine.

Injury/different starters (four starting centers), assuming new plays will be as effective as the old ones, assuming a player will be able to learn how to be a pocket passer when there are no pockets...so many ways! Football is the ultimate team sport and any major change can be devastating. Going from Goodwin to Kilgore was a significant change. Then losing Kilgore, M Martin and Looney for games...and Looney playing hurt...and Farrell...ouch!

How bout that Kevan Barlow guy - seemed like he "regressed" to me..... But, really, I think it was more, reverting to some bad habits when trying to force things than necessarily him losing his ability with some things.

Originally posted by thl408:
I know jonnydel is tying concepts to how well, or not well, Kap was able to execute them, but I just want to touch on concepts in general. Here's a concept the 49ers were not able to hit much on last season. I have no percentage breakdown, but off the low number of long passes completed, I am assuming it was not run with much success. Although I can't recall how often it was run.

Concept: Double Posts : horizontal stretch at the safety level
The inside post route runs across the face of the key defender, in this particular case, the cover1 safety.

Here, VD is the inside Post, and Boldin is the outside Post.
Versus cover1 robber


The defender on VD bites hard on the playaction and is immediately burned. This puts stress on the deep safety (blue) as he now has to cover VD. This isn't going to happen all the time. So this example isn't the best due to the blown coverage, but the concept still plays out.


Let's imagine the defender on VD is somewhat trailing VD closely. He looks to have given up on the play. As VD flashes across the face of the deep safety, the safety now has a choice to make. Does he provide over the top help on VD, or stay in position in the middle of the field? This is the horizontal stretch taking place.
Here, because VD's defender is burned so badly, the safety's choice is easy - provide help on VD.


The key defender is the safety. If he stays in the middle of the field and doesn't respond to the inside Post breaking across his face, then target the inside Post.

In this example, by providing help on VD (inside Post), the middle of the field is now open for Boldin to work his Post route. The correct throw is to the outside Post.


Now imagine VD and Torrey executing this concept. Some of us have mentioned Kap's trouble with placing an arc on a deep ball to drop in the pass over a defender. This is a non-issue when the WR running a Post route because of the inward breaking of the Post route.. Here, Kap hits Boldin perfectly in stride.

One reason I didn't have a whole lot of info on the double posts was because it seemed like most of the time when we ran this play there'd be a penalty of some kind either on the offense or defense. So, because I didn't tabulate any numbers on plays with penalties most of them aren't recorded.

Also, as the season wore on, we seemed to try less and less 7 step drops like this.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
How bout that Kevan Barlow guy - seemed like he "regressed" to me..... But, really, I think it was more, reverting to some bad habits when trying to force things than necessarily him losing his ability with some things.

LOL! Yes, that's why Walsh put his QBs through a very intense retraining of basics every year before the other players joined them. Anyone can get sloppy and forget what works.

Secondly, no team is the same from one year to the next. Players change in many ways--getting better, worse, smarter, bored, disillusioned, excited...human nature. A guy might get a divorce in the offseason and be distracted, or a new girl friend, or...whatever. Last year it was obvious, and announced, CK would become more of a pocket passer. It didn't work the way the coaches envisioned, which upset the whole apple cart. Watching different centers try to get the OL working in sync, and watching OL players looking back at Kaepernick trying to figure out whether he would take off or stay put...ouch!

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by BodhiPaddlesOut:

Originally posted by Niners816:
^^^^that late season offense in 2012 was the closest to a championship level attack we had since 1998.

The Justin Smith injury was s**t luck.

That really is it...if the defense plays like 2011, pre injury 2012, or 2013 we coast to probably 10-14 pt win in SB47

as well as Culliver not being a f**king idiot and our Special teams not taking a s**t.