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Offseason Film analysis thread - Passing concepts

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Originally posted by jonnydel:


This is at the moment of CK's windup. You can see the open area for McDonald and Maxwell has his head turned to Lloyd and you can see the back of Thomas' jersey. He should be throwing it to McDonald - easy. But, instead, he's throwing it to Lloyd. Why? I have no idea.


This is where McDonald would be about the time the ball arrived -if Ck threw the ball to him.
Instead, Lloyd has to make a tough adjustment to the ball with the defender right there - incomplete pass.

Kap plays favorites, he loves to throw it to Crab and Boldin, but never threw it to McDonald. That's why when people say "McDonald sucks" I say he he was only targeted ~~10 passes thrown to him all f-ing year!
Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:
Kap plays favorites, he loves to throw it to Crab and Boldin, but never threw it to McDonald. That's why when people say "McDonald sucks" I say he he was only targeted ~~10 passes thrown to him all f-ing year!

Is that Kaepernick's choice or the playcalling?
thx for this "why Harbaugh had to go"-thread...yeah, I know that this was not the purpose but it does criticize Harbaugh and Roman implicitly.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:
Kap plays favorites, he loves to throw it to Crab and Boldin, but never threw it to McDonald. That's why when people say "McDonald sucks" I say he he was only targeted ~~10 passes thrown to him all f-ing year!

Is that Kaepernick's choice or the playcalling?

QB's choice - I'm not aiming this at you, but, it seems that a lot of people have seen CK miss receivers on plays and say, "harbaugh was coaching him that way" - no way, especially when I watch the film of AS run the same plays under the same coach and make the right read and throw.

All these missed opportunities don't actually upset me as much as it tells me that we still have huge upside. CK has done fairly well with the abilities he has so far - if he can get this stuff down, you can see how much room for improvement there is.
Great info! Love checking out this thread for all of the great info everyday!
Originally posted by jonnydel:
QB's choice - I'm not aiming this at you, but, it seems that a lot of people have seen CK miss receivers on plays and say, "harbaugh was coaching him that way" - no way, especially when I watch the film of AS run the same plays under the same coach and make the right read and throw.

All these missed opportunities don't actually upset me as much as it tells me that we still have huge upside. CK has done fairly well with the abilities he has so far - if he can get this stuff down, you can see how much room for improvement there is.

You may be right. I don't know. But if he doesn't get some decent protection from the line, like he didn't last year,
Originally posted by communist:
thx for this "why Harbaugh had to go"-thread...yeah, I know that this was not the purpose but it does criticize Harbaugh and Roman implicitly.

Please, explain.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
QB's choice - I'm not aiming this at you, but, it seems that a lot of people have seen CK miss receivers on plays and say, "harbaugh was coaching him that way" - no way, especially when I watch the film of AS run the same plays under the same coach and make the right read and throw.

All these missed opportunities don't actually upset me as much as it tells me that we still have huge upside. CK has done fairly well with the abilities he has so far - if he can get this stuff down, you can see how much room for improvement there is.

You may be right. I don't know. But if he doesn't get some decent protection from the line, like he didn't last year,

The alternative sounds like he's not actually making any real-time reads out there. He's just taking directions from his coach. Is that better than missing a read?
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:
Kap plays favorites, he loves to throw it to Crab and Boldin, but never threw it to McDonald. That's why when people say "McDonald sucks" I say he he was only targeted ~~10 passes thrown to him all f-ing year!

Is that Kaepernick's choice or the playcalling?

look at that post above you dude. clearly he had a choice...
Originally posted by Niners816:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
He's been ok - good. His biggest problem isn't as much in the pre-snap read, it's more how to get the ball to the open receiver after the ball's snapped. There are times when he makes the right throw, but, either his footwork timing is off or he's staring his receiver down because he knows it's the right throw against the coverage so the defense collapses quicker.

As odd as it sounds, understanding the language we're talking about will help you in those madden playbooks - especially this years'. A lot of times, in Madden, they just call the play by it's concept, "niner smash". So, if you understand the smash concept, you'll know to key in on the corner for the smash concept if you see zone and look for the corner route vs man.

Just a tip for you for your madden playing with the 49ers. A great play is out of the shotgun doubles -on. HB Circle. It gives you a "smash" concept on the left side of the field - use this as your primary read if you see 2 deep safeties(unless the corners are playing a soft 2 zone with a 3 yard cushion - then look to the circle route for sure) or misaligned LB's - you'll want to hit the "circle" route if you see man - but, your bigger gain will be on the corner route. If you see a single safety - or, if you see that safety on the TE side down in the box, look first for Boldin on his mid-out. At the snap, look to see if any defenders drop into the hook/curl zone, if they do, immediately move to throw to Gore on the circle route -he'll be open as Davis has cleared out the zone.

^ One of my fav plays to run in Madden.

Speaking of madden, how nice was this year on the ps4/xbox1 that it lets you call your plays by concepts. I love it as it give you alittle more formation variety, because it groups all your "drive" concepts together. this allows you to really call a game like the classic niners and run the core WCO concepts out of multiple formations.

On the play you described, I forgot in double On form is the HB strong or weak side. Because I know there a gun play that give you the back on the strong side and it basically combines a smash with the twin WRs and a Texas concept with the TE and HB. That play is stealing.

Edit: I had to pop it in to look, it is the same play. HB circle gives you 11 personnel, with twins on one side and the back on the strong side. Twins run smash, back & TE run a Texas concept. Great, great play
I do really like that - it's like they really focused on incorporating the passing concepts more into the game-play. I like to run a lot of concepts that play well off each other like a shallow cross concept(also from the same formation as the HB circle with the smash and texas concepts) which gives you the hi/lo stretch against the 2 receiver side, followed by a drive or levels concept and then a trail concept - they work really well in succession with one another. Or, staying in either 12 personnel or 21 personnel and using a lot of stretch runs followed by slide concept passing - which transitions into why I think we didn't run a whole lot of slide concepts last year.

They work best when utilizing a zone blocking scheme as the play action is easier to sell and stretch runs are more about horizontal movement of the defense, so the horizontal passing game works very well in conjunction. Whereas, the power run game is more vertical in it's movement of the defense(LB's have to aggressively fill wholes instead of playing 2 way runs) plays more into a vertical passing game. I think one of the causes of our struggles the past couple years is that our personnel was better suited to a horizontal passing attack but our run game was better suited to a vertical attack.

Anyhoo, if you're looking for a money goal play, the strong I formation with 2 TE's, spacing play. Read the CB - if he drops back into coverage on the outside TE(usually McD) you'll have Miller wide open, if he flares out - in a zone protection, McD should come open after a second).
Originally posted by jonnydel:
I do really like that - it's like they really focused on incorporating the passing concepts more into the game-play. I like to run a lot of concepts that play well off each other like a shallow cross concept(also from the same formation as the HB circle with the smash and texas concepts) which gives you the hi/lo stretch against the 2 receiver side, followed by a drive or levels concept and then a trail concept - they work really well in succession with one another. Or, staying in either 12 personnel or 21 personnel and using a lot of stretch runs followed by slide concept passing - which transitions into why I think we didn't run a whole lot of slide concepts last year.

They work best when utilizing a zone blocking scheme as the play action is easier to sell and stretch runs are more about horizontal movement of the defense, so the horizontal passing game works very well in conjunction. Whereas, the power run game is more vertical in it's movement of the defense(LB's have to aggressively fill wholes instead of playing 2 way runs) plays more into a vertical passing game. I think one of the causes of our struggles the past couple years is that our personnel was better suited to a horizontal passing attack but our run game was better suited to a vertical attack.

Anyhoo, if you're looking for a money goal play, the strong I formation with 2 TE's, spacing play. Read the CB - if he drops back into coverage on the outside TE(usually McD) you'll have Miller wide open, if he flares out - in a zone protection, McD should come open after a second).

Not to totally derail to madden but the following are my favorite plays in the niner book.



In this panel, I love "flood" and "flanker drive". Flood is a great curl-flat concept. The design of the curl on this play really allows it to sit In the zone. Drive is pretty self explanatory, it's my all time favorite passing concept and in my custom playbooks I usually have 20-30 plays of it or variations of it.



On this panel, I love F-trail. It's similar to the old hammer plays and also kinda have a drive aspect to it with the crosser.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:
Kap plays favorites, he loves to throw it to Crab and Boldin, but never threw it to McDonald. That's why when people say "McDonald sucks" I say he he was only targeted ~~10 passes thrown to him all f-ing year!

Is that Kaepernick's choice or the playcalling?

look at that post above you dude. clearly he had a choice...

lol
Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:
Kap plays favorites, he loves to throw it to Crab and Boldin, but never threw it to McDonald. That's why when people say "McDonald sucks" I say he he was only targeted ~~10 passes thrown to him all f-ing year!

Well if I was the QB and you dropped 3 out of the 5 passes that I had thrown to you then I wouldn't trust you and won't target you as much as the other guys that barely drops any of my passes. Just sayin. It's more of a trust thing than a favorite thingy. I think
  • thl408
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You think this is a %&*#@%ing game?

No but seriously, are there any passing concepts that exist in real life that don't exist in Madden? I ask because I don't play Madden.
Originally posted by thl408:
You think this is a %&*#@%ing game?

No but seriously, are there any passing concepts that exist in real life that don't exist in Madden? I ask because I don't play Madden.

They aren't always explicitly said, but I can't think of any that aren't included. I know, in just the 49ers playbook in the game there are these concepts:

slants
curls
curl/flat
sucker
slant/flat
spacing
spot
stick
verticals
dagger
shallow cross
mesh
levels
drive
texas
slide
flood
sail
speedo
trail
scissors

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head - that I've used in the game
[ Edited by jonnydel on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:07 AM ]
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