Colin Kaepernick Thread

"I've never eaten a strawberry in my life. I eat cheeseburgers every day. I to be able to love for a long time."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000702379/article/tom-brady-ive-never-eaten-a-strawberry-in-my-life


Awe how cute.

Maybe Brady and Kap should eat together... Tommy can share his cheeseburgers while Kap teaches him how to love a strawberry

Kap is the best benchwarmer on the bench. Because Ponder stands.

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Great post.


If Gabbert cant reverse some or most of his bad habbits this year he needs to go. It would be a tad more palatable to see Kap also get a "last chance" shot this year if he didnt have that 2017 injury clause.

I agree with this, but the thing that is bizarre is watching kaep's first game as a the starter, on mnf against the Bears. He was not relying on his athleticism, that was a pocket QB. There was pretty much no read option at that point. He just stood in the pocket and made the throws. Granted the D didn't see him coming and they weren't game planning for him, but some of the throws he made couldn't have been stopped by anyone, no matter what the game plan was. He looked like a complete QB for his first starts in the 2012 season. But it just went away.

I honestly believe that when Roman started game planning for his strengths that staff took his focus away from the mental and fundamental part of the game because they got super bowl fever. I think they lost sight of developing him and opted for banking on kaep's skill set to win a super bowl in '12 and '13. They didn't, and in 2014 the league had caught up and the harbaugh staff didn't have many answers.

This is not totally excusing kaep, I think he lost his focus and got a bit vain after that the 2012 season. I remember being very alarmed when harbaugh was telling him to stop working out so much in the offseason. That to me is an indication that the guy was getting lost in his own vanity. From a personality standpoint, he really seemed to change after that Super Bowl.

This is part of why I was hoping he'd start this year. He seemed to be relaxing into his old personality again. I know it's hard to see that with the flag controversy, but he's back around his teammates again. He laughs in press conferences (again, not lately, but he was before the flag stuff), he seems a bit looser. I'm not saying a personality change was going to magically make him a good QB again, but I was glad to see his mind was back in the right place.

Now we might be too far away from the 2012 Kaep to ever see it again, but there was a poised pocket QB in there at some point. We didn't see it for long, but it was there.

So much more comfortable with CK's stand...er...sit...kneel. It bugs Jerry Jones so...

Lo Neal just said that he thinks Kap will play some vs CAR. His reasoning is that NO NFL backup QB comes into the end of a game unless it is a 44 point blowout with 6 minutes left or something. A coach doesn't put a backup QB on the last series to run out the clock.

I see what he is saying and was wondering why Kap was being put in as well. Maybe Chip wanted him to get that game feel.

Originally posted by jedediahyork:

Kap is the best benchwarmer on the bench. Because Ponder stands.

So if Gabbert continues to be inacurate and starts to struggle to win us games and they bench him in favor of Kaep, are you going to go into hiding?

Originally posted by zonkers:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

I'm telling you guy's, there was no reason for it to take so long to name Gabbert the starter if everyone from coaches to FO were on board. Kap missed half the pre season and looked so bad against GB, they could've easily ended the QB battle there, and started getting Blaine ready for the season if he was who everyone wanted.

My guess was it's the FO that doesn't want the guy that could cost them if he gets hurt again to play, and that seems to be the case.

Either way, I think publicly, Chip just wants to be all-football after his GM/Coach stint in Philly.
He's going to say he treats everyone with a clean slate since he's new. And, I think that's what he's been doing. The AD 2nd retirement is a little weird, but everyone seems to be getting a fair shake at getting coached up.
Going forward, I think Chip'll just be coaching up all three guys and the film/practices will be the basis for who plays or not.

Another factor is that ending the QB battle early would've coincided with anthem-gate. I'm sure neither Chip or FO wanted to get involved in that one.

Yea cutting him may have been a problem right after anthem-gate, but there was no way anyone could've questioned their decision to end the QB comp, and start getting Blaine all the first team reps after the GB game. Kap couldn't even do anything all offseason, and he missed half of preseason. Blaine was there the whole time and had huge head start.

After Kap looked like hot garbage against GB, it would've been a no brainer to end the QB comp there if everyone was on the Blaine train.

Originally posted by eforbes12:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:
Great post.


If Gabbert cant reverse some or most of his bad habbits this year he needs to go. It would be a tad more palatable to see Kap also get a "last chance" shot this year if he didnt have that 2017 injury clause.

I agree with this, but the thing that is bizarre is watching kaep's first game as a the starter, on mnf against the Bears. He was not relying on his athleticism, that was a pocket QB. There was pretty much no read option at that point. He just stood in the pocket and made the throws. Granted the D didn't see him coming and they weren't game planning for him, but some of the throws he made couldn't have been stopped by anyone, no matter what the game plan was. He looked like a complete QB for his first starts in the 2012 season. But it just went away.

I honestly believe that when Roman started game planning for his strengths that staff took his focus away from the mental and fundamental part of the game because they got super bowl fever. I think they lost sight of developing him and opted for banking on kaep's skill set to win a super bowl in '12 and '13. They didn't, and in 2014 the league had caught up and the harbaugh staff didn't have many answers.

This is not totally excusing kaep, I think he lost his focus and got a bit vain after that the 2012 season. I remember being very alarmed when harbaugh was telling him to stop working out so much in the offseason. That to me is an indication that the guy was getting lost in his own vanity. From a personality standpoint, he really seemed to change after that Super Bowl.

This is part of why I was hoping he'd start this year. He seemed to be relaxing into his old personality again. I know it's hard to see that with the flag controversy, but he's back around his teammates again. He laughs in press conferences (again, not lately, but he was before the flag stuff), he seems a bit looser. I'm not saying a personality change was going to magically make him a good QB again, but I was glad to see his mind was back in the right place.

Now we might be too far away from the 2012 Kaep to ever see it again, but there was a poised pocket QB in there at some point. We didn't see it for long, but it was there.

I've re-watched that Bears game myself and see the same things. He wasn't polished, but he was making throws from the pocket like a real QB would do. That is an interesting idea about Roman/Harbaugh using his athleticism too much, too early. First game adrenaline? First game ignorance that forced him to "just throw it"? All very interesting to me because of his huge early success to being a bench-warming QB.

Originally posted by cortana49:

Originally posted by eforbes12:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Great post.


If Gabbert cant reverse some or most of his bad habbits this year he needs to go. It would be a tad more palatable to see Kap also get a "last chance" shot this year if he didnt have that 2017 injury clause.

I agree with this, but the thing that is bizarre is watching kaep's first game as a the starter, on mnf against the Bears. He was not relying on his athleticism, that was a pocket QB. There was pretty much no read option at that point. He just stood in the pocket and made the throws. Granted the D didn't see him coming and they weren't game planning for him, but some of the throws he made couldn't have been stopped by anyone, no matter what the game plan was. He looked like a complete QB for his first starts in the 2012 season. But it just went away.

I honestly believe that when Roman started game planning for his strengths that staff took his focus away from the mental and fundamental part of the game because they got super bowl fever. I think they lost sight of developing him and opted for banking on kaep's skill set to win a super bowl in '12 and '13. They didn't, and in 2014 the league had caught up and the harbaugh staff didn't have many answers.

This is not totally excusing kaep, I think he lost his focus and got a bit vain after that the 2012 season. I remember being very alarmed when harbaugh was telling him to stop working out so much in the offseason. That to me is an indication that the guy was getting lost in his own vanity. From a personality standpoint, he really seemed to change after that Super Bowl.

This is part of why I was hoping he'd start this year. He seemed to be relaxing into his old personality again. I know it's hard to see that with the flag controversy, but he's back around his teammates again. He laughs in press conferences (again, not lately, but he was before the flag stuff), he seems a bit looser. I'm not saying a personality change was going to magically make him a good QB again, but I was glad to see his mind was back in the right place.

Now we might be too far away from the 2012 Kaep to ever see it again, but there was a poised pocket QB in there at some point. We didn't see it for long, but it was there.

I've re-watched that Bears game myself and see the same things. He wasn't polished, but he was making throws from the pocket like a real QB would do. That is an interesting idea about Roman/Harbaugh using his athleticism too much, too early. First game adrenaline? First game ignorance that forced him to "just throw it"? All very interesting to me because of his huge early success to being a bench-warming QB.

Yea people seem to think he was all RO when he first started and that's the only way he was successful. I don't remember him using it at all to beat the Pats, Bears, or Cards. He was standing in there making franchise QB throws week after week. We barely used it until the playoffs, and that's what made Kap and our offense go from good to great, averaging 34 points through the playoffs.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
^
but what is the point of that?

Kaepernick at his best ( 2012, 2013, first half of 2014) did not rely on his scrambling.

He's always relied on his athleticism first and foremost. That is why so many people from the very beginning were saying that he would need to develop as a pocket passer to have any sort of longevity in the NFL.

In 2012 when teams were freaking out about how to stop him and there was no tape on him, he was able to do pretty much whatever he wanted but as time went on and teams got a handle on what his weaknesses and limitations were, they began forcing him to beat them with his arm.


In the comments above, Bill Walsh succinctly stated what would happen to a QB who didn't develop into more of a pure passer type.

Walsh: What happens is that sooner or later those openings to run aren't there anymore, and if you haven't developed as a passer, your wide receivers will just be standing around downfield watching their quarterback run around.

And this is pretty much what happened. Teams began to limit Kaepernick as a runner and began pressing him to beat them via the air which is something he ended up struggling with more often than not.

It was his strong arm, accuracy, and confidence. Yes he used his legs to put games away, or to get key first downs. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

A strong arm doesn't make you a great, good or even average quarterback. John Skelton had a monster of an arm and he sucked. Kaepernick had a strong arm but he also lacked touch on his deep ball which was only brought up about 50,000 times, especially during games. Whereas QB's like Rodgers throw their deep ball with arc to try and get it to land slightly in front of their receiver, Kaepernick was using his incredible arm strength to throw lasers downfield which is one of the reasons he struggled with his accuracy. Just like with his short passes, he would often throw at one speed and this led to him overthrowing receivers deep.


The issue is that too often, rather than hanging back in the pocket and waiting for something to open up, he'd take off and run with it instead and he never really broke that habit, something that Steve Young talked about extensively. That Kaepernick would have to learn to resist the urge to try and outdo the defense with his athleticism and show patience in the pocket to become a complete quarterback.

Think about what happened in the offseason. (Kaepernick) had been working — every year I'd hear 'I'm getting stronger, I'm getting faster.' Those are the things he's great at. He's great at that.

And this year it's more different. 'I'm going to work on some of the more softer skills.' Well, it's still hardware. Right? I'm going to work on my release. I'm going to work on my footwork. All important, super important stuff.

But the stuff I'm talking about is way more tedious than that. I keep using that word because it's boring. Middle of April, in the back room, just kind of going through it over and over. It's Mike Shanahan, drive you crazy going through it.

"Let's go through it again."

"No, Mike, I literally cannot go through it again."

"But Steve, if you don't go through it again, and get it deep into your brain, it won't reflex back out. You'll have to think about it for a second, and it's too long. Too late. And then if you start to get all the stuff now embedded into you, you can start to dictate terms."

That's a hard thing to go do. I'd much rather work on the things that I'm great at. "I'm one of the most talented guys that football has ever seen. I'm gonna go work on those things, even around the edges, that I'm super great at already." Why not? Who wants to go do the things that are boring and really hard? And I understand. Especially when you've got — I had that, too — the ability to move around.

So the guys that can move around, it actually works against you for some of this other higher level software stuff that I'm talking about. It's like, "I don't WANT to do that. Because I can do all this other cool stuff."

in games against these Elite Defense. (especially in that mini Elite QB tournamnt with Rodgers, Brady, Manning that one year when the Packers won the Superbowl) it was Rodgers scrambling ability that helped him when those other "Pocket Passers" couldn't get it done in the pocket.... in those playoffs games that year.

Scrambling ability helps but those other guys have been constant playoff and SB regulars, even without the scrambling ability. What guys like Manning and Brady have shown is great pocket presence, they weren't threats to take off and run for 30 yards, but they could move smoothly around the pocket, staying aware of the pass rush while keeping their eyes downfield, always scanning for a receiver to get open.

It's great and all to have a QB that can win games from the Pocket.. but that isn't always enough. It didn't guarantee Brees, it didn't guarantee Rodgers a win (two times against Kap in the playoffs), and it didn't help Manning all those years in the playoffs.

There is never any guarantee in anything. However historically, a guy that can pass from the pocket and pick apart a defense with his arm has been infinitesimally more successful than scrambling type QB that resorts to picking up yards on the ground in lieu of passing the ball. You look at the next generation of young QB's that are in this league, a guy like Jameis Winston who can tuck the ball and run but there is no question about his pocket attributes and abilities. He's a pocket passer with athleticism. Aaron Rodgers is a pocket passer with athleticism. Even Russell Wilson, who is the second coming of Fran Tarkenton has sharply improved his ability in the pocket and he has always shown poise and awareness when moving with the football, eyes always scanning down the field, waiting for something to open up, running only as a last resort, which is why he so often ends up hitting those big bombs downfield, because he gives his receivers a chance to get open for that 30-40 yard pass rather than taking off and scrambling for 10 yards.

I mean Kaepernick is not even that good of a "scrambler" (for those who call him that). That is not what has brought him success. It cracks me up when some of the usuals call his play "backyard ball" he's good when he runs straight sure, and yes he has a few plays in his career where he ran around in the pocket for a big play....but that is not the majority of his game like some like spew.

"Scrambler", "running QB", whatever term you prefer, he's a guy who has been far too quick to resort to his athleticism to try and bail him out, leaving a lot of plays on the field. Like Brian Billick said in the comments above, the running QB can get you 4-8 yards on the ground, the guy who hangs back in the pocket and waits can find the guy who breaks open late for a huge completion of 20, 30 or more yards.


Bill Walsh knew quarterbacks better than anyone. He was a quarterback genius and if he were around, I'm sure he'd have seen a ton of potential in Kaepernick as well but I also believe that Walsh would have insisted on Kaepernick fixing his mechanics, improving his footwork, improving his pocket presence, all the things that he demanded of Steve Young that took Young years to perfect.

Bill Walsh, Genius: There just isn't a way to play the position as a pure runner. We've seen it attempted over the years, but never with great success. Steve Young was as great a runner as there has ever been in football but he didn't start to make a difference until he became a great passer as well.

Kaepernick, at his best, was a QB who had a strong arm. Was accurate. Was confident. Was fast enough to score TDs from anywhere on the field.

He had a strong arm and he was confident, as far as accuracy, you lost me there. He thrived on making splash plays but he was never a guy who would consistently pick you apart up and down the field. He struggled with short passes of any kind, largely because he never threw with much touch. Virtually every pass was a bullet, whether 5 yards away or 25 yards away. He doesn't always seem to process well what is going on out on the field, he doesn't adapt to what defenses are doing to counter him, when defenses blitz he rarely hits the area that was left open, he's a guy who came in, took the league apart largely on instinct and athleticism and once the league adapted, as the league always does, he really never showed the ability to adapt back.

The Steve Young scenario was open for him, a super athletic running QB that makes the transition to ultra-dangerous pocket passer that can run at any moment but it just never happened. The potential was there, the upside was there, but he never took that next step. Kaepernick seemed content spending his offseasons doing track workouts, building his body, getting faster, improving on the stuff he was already good at but neglecting the really dull stuff that truly makes for great NFL quarterbacks.

You break it down to hardware and software. And hardware — Colin's like No. 1. Right? Ability to throw the football, strength, speed, agility, athleticism, arm strength, everything. Hardware's best in the league. The software is where we kind of have to develop over time an ability — and it's high-level computing.

There's guys I know that were super smart. This is not about IQ now, by the way. I know super smart, high-IQ guys that could turn over data really fast, but then under pressure completely collapse. Couldn't do it. In theory, in practice, literally in practice, killed it. And in the game it would just overwhelm them. So it's not an IQ thing, it's more of a … there's an aptitude to it.

There's an aptitude to the minutiae of it all. It's boring work! I've said this many times. High-level quarterbacking is really boring. Tedious memorization, so you have reflexive recall. You watch Aaron Rodgers. The other day, I was in Lambeau Field, and his ability to take in just enormous amounts of data and just process it reflexively. To the point where his body and his mind are completely one. He dictates to defenses, he just picks people out. He sits there and waits, and I literally see him look at the strong safety and go, "Oh, you poor sucker. You are just dead."-Steve Young

Kaepernick, when our Oline started get injured and he started to decline, was too stubborn to not adjust to defenses that obviously took away the middle and deep part of the field... leaving our RBs and the flat open. Let alone some of them using a player to spy him.



Kaepernick had half a year to sit back and watch Gabbert take advantage of the checkdowns to get us closer for conversions.

Unless he's somehow developed proper touch while rehabbing in Colorado, I just don't see him getting better in that area. Just like Gabbert with his happy feet when throwing, Kaepernick tends to resort to just spraying throws in there, especially when he is pressured and a big part of playing QB is adjusting your touch on throws, changing up the velocity depending on whether you're throwing a few yards out or 40 yards downfield. Aaron Rodgers is an absolute wizard at doing this. I don't know if Kaepernick will ever be capable of it.

I'm still curious to see what this Kaepernick, when he gets healthy like Chip says, will look like with a good offensive minded coach around him.

Anything is possible, and Bill Walsh was a huge believer in proper coaching being able to fix a quarterback but he also believed that the only way to "fix" a quarterback was to start with their mechanics and a large part of that depended on the QB's willingness to enthusiastically do a lot of tedious, repetitive, mind-numbingly boring stuff, over and over and over again.

This doesn't apply just to Kaepernick. Gabbert has a host of his own issues, some are similar to Kaepernick's, some are vastly different. I'm inclined to be skeptical that either of them will improve to become consistently accurate passers but crazier things have happened. I just think because of how long both have been in the NFL now, their habits are pretty well ingrained and it would take a heavy duty amount of work to undo the stuff that they've already picked up over the years.



Ultimately I believe that this team would be better off picking a QB from scratch, hopefully make a wise choice on a QB prospect and then ensuring that they are coached and developed correctly from the very beginning, not allowing them to develop bad habits or things that they would have to try and undo years after the fact.

This is probably one of the best posts I've read on this entire forum for some time. Thank you, Sir!

Walsh was a fanatic for details. I recall Montana talking about how many times they had to run simply swing passes to the RB. The RB had to be going full speed and the ball had to lead him perfectly. If either was not there, they ran it again until they could do it blindfolded.

Originally posted by dj43:

Walsh was a fanatic for details. I recall Montana talking about how many times they had to run simply swing passes to the RB. The RB had to be going full speed and the ball had to lead him perfectly. If either was not there, they ran it again until they could do it blindfolded.

I don't think NFL teams have that kind of practice time anymore cause of CBA. Which sucks. Cause NFL has got more and more sloppy over the years. Tackling, timing routes and blocking have become very sloppy

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by dj43:
Walsh was a fanatic for details. I recall Montana talking about how many times they had to run simply swing passes to the RB. The RB had to be going full speed and the ball had to lead him perfectly. If either was not there, they ran it again until they could do it blindfolded.

I don't think NFL teams have that kind of practice time anymore cause of CBA. Which sucks. Cause NFL has got more and more sloppy over the years. Tackling, timing routes and blocking have become very sloppy

Agree with this. I'm fine with limiting hitting in practice, as that can be career/life altering. But reducing the time for reps is not conducive to good football. This might be one of the reasons for less complicated offenses and defenses as well. Kelly has been accused of running fewer plays, but it seems he's found a way to run more options from some basic sets, which reduces the need for more reps.

Let's hope Chip can get Kap successful again because Kap's trade value and his general value in the league is crap.

Think of him like a Lego set that was built incorrectly. You will need to take it apart backwards and work backwards to see which step a wrong piece was added or not added incorrectly. Now imagine someone wants to sell you this Lego set for $300.

Well, you can get the same Lego set for $100 fresh out the box and begin at step 1.

Which path would you rather take? Teams would rather work with a young QB from scratch than fix a broken Kap while spending millions of $$.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by dj43:

Walsh was a fanatic for details. I recall Montana talking about how many times they had to run simply swing passes to the RB. The RB had to be going full speed and the ball had to lead him perfectly. If either was not there, they ran it again until they could do it blindfolded.

I don't think NFL teams have that kind of practice time anymore cause of CBA. Which sucks. Cause NFL has got more and more sloppy over the years. Tackling, timing routes and blocking have become very sloppy

Agree with this. I'm fine with limiting hitting in practice, as that can be career/life altering. But reducing the time for reps is not conducive to good football. This might be one of the reasons for less complicated offenses and defenses as well. Kelly has been accused of running fewer plays, but it seems he's found a way to run more options from some basic sets, which reduces the need for more reps.

But some of the hitting they would be doing in practice would be hitting technique. Teaching safer ways to tackle. The lawsuit thing about CTE is tricky. It's troubling the NFL hid results about it. That's scary. But if you play football you know you are signing up to get injured. You have to sign waivers when you play pop warner on up. That's what bugs me I signed it or my parents signed it when I played ball. But when a guy like Clinton Portis who had gone bankrupt earlier joins the lawsuit I just roll my eyes.