Colin Kaepernick Thread

Phoenix.. I respect that you took the time to go into detail with your response.. but I don't think we'll be able to get anywhere. You believe a certain thing, and I do as well.

Kap doesn't really have a long career so it shouldn't take too long. But if anyone feels that he is a run first QB or relies too much on his athleticism... list the games where he won because of his legs, and the ones because of his arm.

you can do the same for loses as well if yall want.

I think the big misconception for a long time of Kaepernick is that he won because of the Read Option... or that he plays backyard football (even though he's not known/agile enough to run around like Wilson)

again, IMO, what made him play at a high level (to help us win many of those important football games) was his strong arm, accuracy (yes) and protecting the ball, and confidence (being decisive)

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Phoenix.. I respect that you took the time to go into detail with your response.. but I don't think we'll be able to get anywhere. You believe a certain thing, and I do as well.

Kap doesn't really have a long career so it shouldn't take too long. But if anyone feels that he is a run first QB or relies too much on his athleticism... list the games where he won because of his legs, and the ones because of his arm.

you can do the same for loses as well if yall want.

I think the big misconception for a long time of Kaepernick is that he won because of the Read Option... or that he plays backyard football (even though he's not known/agile enough to run around like Wilson)

again, IMO, what made him play at a high level (to help us win many of those important football games) was his strong arm, accuracy (yes) and protecting the ball, and confidence (being decisive)

This, I agree with. Honestly, Kap was never developed properly. Harbaugh sucked at developing him. Reid is getting more out of Alex than Jim was able to. Hell, Mike Johnson got more out of Alex than Jim could.

Kap came into the league with no fear. Jim turned him into a QB who should be afraid to turn the ball over rather than teaching him to be a gunslinger.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Phoenix.. I respect that you took the time to go into detail with your response.. but I don't think we'll be able to get anywhere. You believe a certain thing, and I do as well.

Kap doesn't really have a long career so it shouldn't take too long. But if anyone feels that he is a run first QB or relies too much on his athleticism... list the games where he won because of his legs, and the ones because of his arm.

you can do the same for loses as well if yall want.

I think the big misconception for a long time of Kaepernick is that he won because of the Read Option... or that he plays backyard football (even though he's not known/agile enough to run around like Wilson)

again, IMO, what made him play at a high level (to help us win many of those important football games) was his strong arm, accuracy (yes) and protecting the ball, and confidence (being decisive)

This, I agree with. Honestly, Kap was never developed properly. Harbaugh sucked at developing him. Reid is getting more out of Alex than Jim was able to. Hell, Mike Johnson got more out of Alex than Jim could.

Kap came into the league with no fear. Jim turned him into a QB who should be afraid to turn the ball over rather than teaching him to be a gunslinger.

Harbaugh is ALL about winning (in his own way). Even if it meant running the clock out when we had a 10 point lead to start the 3rd QTR. Sometimes running the ball 3 straight times. Limiting the number of passes from our QBs, be it Kaepernick or Alex.

Limiting their passes in Preseason.

Harbaugh was always paranoid (be hit having his QBs were a knee brace, when they were perfectly healthy) answering questions from the media with 2-3 words. I'm sure that rubbed off on his QBs.

It worked for him and our team for a period of time, but to have that type of QB mentality and then go to Tomsula as head coach... recipe for disaster.

We all know what's going to happen.

1. Sooner or later, the backup will need to keep it quiet with the media when he's in the locker room and on game days.
2. Then Chip will make him the starter.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Phoenix.. I respect that you took the time to go into detail with your response.. but I don't think we'll be able to get anywhere. You believe a certain thing, and I do as well.

Kap doesn't really have a long career so it shouldn't take too long. But if anyone feels that he is a run first QB or relies too much on his athleticism... list the games where he won because of his legs, and the ones because of his arm.

you can do the same for loses as well if yall want.

I think the big misconception for a long time of Kaepernick is that he won because of the Read Option... or that he plays backyard football (even though he's not known/agile enough to run around like Wilson)

again, IMO, what made him play at a high level (to help us win many of those important football games) was his strong arm, accuracy (yes) and protecting the ball, and confidence (being decisive)

This, I agree with. Honestly, Kap was never developed properly. Harbaugh sucked at developing him. Reid is getting more out of Alex than Jim was able to. Hell, Mike Johnson got more out of Alex than Jim could.

Kap came into the league with no fear. Jim turned him into a QB who should be afraid to turn the ball over rather than teaching him to be a gunslinger.

Harbaugh is ALL about winning (in his own way). Even if it meant running the clock out when we had a 10 point lead to start the 3rd QTR. Sometimes running the ball 3 straight times. Limiting the number of passes from our QBs, be it Kaepernick or Alex.

Limiting their passes in Preseason.

Harbaugh was always paranoid (be hit having his QBs were a knee brace, when they were perfectly healthy) answering questions from the media with 2-3 words. I'm sure that rubbed off on his QBs.

It worked for him and our team for a period of time, but to have that type of QB mentality and then go to Tomsula as head coach... recipe for disaster.

In the long run, Harbaugh wouldn't have faired well because his players didn't appear to be developing which means his offense wasn't evolving. He would have failed in the NFL in the long run. He is also heavily reliant on his assistants. Remember, he had the highest paid staff and, from reports, a very good staff.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
But some of the hitting they would be doing in practice would be hitting technique. Teaching safer ways to tackle. The lawsuit thing about CTE is tricky. It's troubling the NFL hid results about it. That's scary. But if you play football you know you are signing up to get injured. You have to sign waivers when you play pop warner on up. That's what bugs me I signed it or my parents signed it when I played ball. But when a guy like Clinton Portis who had gone bankrupt earlier joins the lawsuit I just roll my eyes.

Yes, but they can limit hitting to protect players from head trauma and still do the reps. I actually feel the NFL has been coaching inappropriate techniques for some time...I should say some coaches. While people were cracking down on leg whips they should have been concentrating on keep the head safe. Willis is a great example...I doubt he has any head trauma issues because his form was exemplary. Goldson and Whitner were the opposite. Chest or shoulder into the player and wrap...not using the helmet as a spear.

Originally posted by eforbes12:
I agree with this, but the thing that is bizarre is watching kaep's first game as a the starter, on mnf against the Bears. He was not relying on his athleticism, that was a pocket QB. There was pretty much no read option at that point. He just stood in the pocket and made the throws. Granted the D didn't see him coming and they weren't game planning for him, but some of the throws he made couldn't have been stopped by anyone, no matter what the game plan was. He looked like a complete QB for his first starts in the 2012 season. But it just went away.

You answered it yourself. The Bears defense sold out to stop the run leaving wide open gaps in their defense down the field. Kaepernick to his credit took advantage of those wide open gaps. Whoever the defensive coordinator was at the time couldn't have done a better job of building confidence in a young quarterback with that gameplan had they tried to do so deliberately. As long as those gaps were there, he could make the throws, once teams started adapting, disguising their looks and throwing far more complex looks at him, he began to struggle and not trust his reads, bailing out of the pocket, dropping his eyes and taking off running.

Once teams started actively gameplanning for Kaepernick, forcing him to remain in the pocket, to go through his progressions, to make accurate throws into coverage, we saw him begin to struggle and he never really adjusted after that.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by eforbes12:
I agree with this, but the thing that is bizarre is watching kaep's first game as a the starter, on mnf against the Bears. He was not relying on his athleticism, that was a pocket QB. There was pretty much no read option at that point. He just stood in the pocket and made the throws. Granted the D didn't see him coming and they weren't game planning for him, but some of the throws he made couldn't have been stopped by anyone, no matter what the game plan was. He looked like a complete QB for his first starts in the 2012 season. But it just went away.

You answered it yourself. The Bears defense sold out to stop the run leaving wide open gaps in their defense down the field. Kaepernick to his credit took advantage of those wide open gaps. Whoever the defensive coordinator was at the time couldn't have done a better job of building confidence in a young quarterback with that gameplan had they tried to do so deliberately. As long as those gaps were there, he could make the throws, once teams started adapting, disguising their looks and throwing far more complex looks at him, he began to struggle and not trust his reads, bailing out of the pocket, dropping his eyes and taking off running.

Once teams started actively gameplanning for Kaepernick, forcing him to remain in the pocket, to go through his progressions, to make accurate throws into coverage, we saw him begin to struggle and he never really adjusted after that.

and is that was also happened against the Falcons in that Championship game? that got us to the SuperBowl? Then later in the Superbowl.

then later in the 2013 season? then later in the Playoffs when he faced the Packers at GreenBay? Or heck the next year when he put up 400 yards passing on them in 2014.

I don't know... instead of ignoring that and many other examples, I just look at other reasons as to why he might have struggled. Like having Martin and Martin as his linemen in the second half of 2014. Then Devey, Pears, and Martin in 2015.

look if for some reason Kap plays this year and passes like he did last year against the Giants or Ravens games (with Tomfoolya as his coach)... if he does that again, the TV people will just be like OH WOW CHIP KELLEY HAS IMPROVED HIM bla bla. Ignoring the fact that he passed the ball well last year when he had time in the Pocket.

these TV people, even our former players unfortunately (except the ones who do our post game shows)... they have opinions, but they don't really follow our team...our real issues. They are busy with their lives and careers.

And it begins. Obviously Chip is getting Kap ready to take over.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/09/15/colin-kaepernick-getting-a-quarter-of-49ers-practice-reps/

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Phoenix.. I respect that you took the time to go into detail with your response.. but I don't think we'll be able to get anywhere. You believe a certain thing, and I do as well.

Kap doesn't really have a long career so it shouldn't take too long. But if anyone feels that he is a run first QB or relies too much on his athleticism... list the games where he won because of his legs, and the ones because of his arm.

you can do the same for loses as well if yall want.

I think the big misconception for a long time of Kaepernick is that he won because of the Read Option... or that he plays backyard football (even though he's not known/agile enough to run around like Wilson)

again, IMO, what made him play at a high level (to help us win many of those important football games) was his strong arm, accuracy (yes) and protecting the ball, and confidence (being decisive)

I agree. There are so many fallacies regarding Kaep. The only things IMO that have been figured out is that he, like most QBs, doesn't perform well under continual duress. The only significant game Kaep won with his legs was the divisional game against GB when he ran for 183 (even though he also threw for 250+). Green Bay had an ENTIRE off season to prepare for Kaeps 'running' and he promptly threw for 400+. Kaep has shown that when he has time to throw he's exceptional. Not to bring Gabbert in the conversation but when Kaep has had that kind of time to throw he's been exceptional.

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Phoenix.. I respect that you took the time to go into detail with your response.. but I don't think we'll be able to get anywhere. You believe a certain thing, and I do as well.

Kap doesn't really have a long career so it shouldn't take too long. But if anyone feels that he is a run first QB or relies too much on his athleticism... list the games where he won because of his legs, and the ones because of his arm.

you can do the same for loses as well if yall want.

I think the big misconception for a long time of Kaepernick is that he won because of the Read Option... or that he plays backyard football (even though he's not known/agile enough to run around like Wilson)

again, IMO, what made him play at a high level (to help us win many of those important football games) was his strong arm, accuracy (yes) and protecting the ball, and confidence (being decisive)

I agree. There are so many fallacies regarding Kaep. The only things IMO that have been figured out is that he, like most QBs, doesn't perform well under continual duress. The only significant game Kaep won with his legs was the divisional game against GB when he ran for 183 (even though he also threw for 250+). Green Bay had an ENTIRE off season to prepare for Kaeps 'running' and he promptly threw for 400+. Kaep has shown that when he has time to throw he's exceptional. Not to bring Gabbert in the conversation but when Kaep has had that kind of time to throw he's been exceptional.

From Alex, to Kap, to Gabbert, these are the things they all have in common:

Piece of s**t pass protection + mediocre, or injured WRs, or literally crap WR's, + crap passing OC.

Thanks Baalke!
//

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Phoenix.. I respect that you took the time to go into detail with your response.. but I don't think we'll be able to get anywhere. You believe a certain thing, and I do as well.

Kap doesn't really have a long career so it shouldn't take too long. But if anyone feels that he is a run first QB or relies too much on his athleticism... list the games where he won because of his legs, and the ones because of his arm.

you can do the same for loses as well if yall want.

I think the big misconception for a long time of Kaepernick is that he won because of the Read Option... or that he plays backyard football (even though he's not known/agile enough to run around like Wilson)

again, IMO, what made him play at a high level (to help us win many of those important football games) was his strong arm, accuracy (yes) and protecting the ball, and confidence (being decisive)

I agree. There are so many fallacies regarding Kaep. The only things IMO that have been figured out is that he, like most QBs, doesn't perform well under continual duress. The only significant game Kaep won with his legs was the divisional game against GB when he ran for 183 (even though he also threw for 250+). Green Bay had an ENTIRE off season to prepare for Kaeps 'running' and he promptly threw for 400+. Kaep has shown that when he has time to throw he's exceptional. Not to bring Gabbert in the conversation but when Kaep has had that kind of time to throw he's been exceptional.

From Alex, to Kap, to Gabbert, these are the things they all have in common:

Piece of s**t pass protection + mediocre, or injured WRs, or literally crap WR's, + crap passing OC.

Thanks Baalke!
//

One thing that can't be measured is intangibles and play making. The league is changing at the QB position because colleges aren't running pro sets very much. In turn those QBs are easier to defend because of the lack of true play action passing. Nfl defenses can defend spread offenses better than college defenses can. It's why guys like Goff look great in college but look like s**t in the league ( I know he's a rookie but still). Nfl offensive coordinators have found that guys like Kaep, Cam and Wilson force you to play 11-11. They put a LOT of pressure on the defense because they run and can also pass the ball deep downfield with accuracy unlike the previous batch of running QBs (Vick, Tebow, Vince Young etc) . If you watched the USC vs Alabama game you saw this dynamic at work. Both teams started with a spread QB and both sucked. Neither team could run the ball and were stopping the run with 4. Bama makes a change at QB to the athletic freshman with the strong arm that threw the ball downfield and the route was on. He forced SC to defend another aspect of the run in addition to the pass. That was the difference in that game.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Phoenix.. I respect that you took the time to go into detail with your response.. but I don't think we'll be able to get anywhere. You believe a certain thing, and I do as well.

Kap doesn't really have a long career so it shouldn't take too long. But if anyone feels that he is a run first QB or relies too much on his athleticism... list the games where he won because of his legs, and the ones because of his arm.

you can do the same for loses as well if yall want.

I think the big misconception for a long time of Kaepernick is that he won because of the Read Option... or that he plays backyard football (even though he's not known/agile enough to run around like Wilson)

again, IMO, what made him play at a high level (to help us win many of those important football games) was his strong arm, accuracy (yes) and protecting the ball, and confidence (being decisive)

Lets also remember he won in part because of the team he had around him and not in spite of them. The real good guys can make up deficiencies in the team around them where he just seemed to struggle as he lost the SB caliber team around him.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Phoenix.. I respect that you took the time to go into detail with your response.. but I don't think we'll be able to get anywhere. You believe a certain thing, and I do as well.

Kap doesn't really have a long career so it shouldn't take too long. But if anyone feels that he is a run first QB or relies too much on his athleticism... list the games where he won because of his legs, and the ones because of his arm.

you can do the same for loses as well if yall want.

I think the big misconception for a long time of Kaepernick is that he won because of the Read Option... or that he plays backyard football (even though he's not known/agile enough to run around like Wilson)

again, IMO, what made him play at a high level (to help us win many of those important football games) was his strong arm, accuracy (yes) and protecting the ball, and confidence (being decisive)

Lets also remember he won in part because of the team he had around him and not in spite of them. The real good guys can make up deficiencies in the team around them where he just seemed to struggle as he lost the SB caliber team around him.

What QB is going to the Super Bowl without a SB caliber team? I haven't seen a QB have a successful playoff runs without a couple things:

Good defense

Stable, consistent coaching

Good oline.

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
What QB is going to the Super Bowl without a SB caliber team? I haven't seen a QB have a successful playoff runs without a couple things:

Good defense

Stable, consistent coaching

Good oline.

I agree but the wheels shouldn't fall off when you can't rely on the defense to win the game for you. Sometimes the O needs to take control and win the game and that starts with the QB. Kap couldn't do this in 14' and 15' because he never evolved into a QB that does this. If you never change the league will figure you out and beat you until you do.