Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I actually saw quite a few teams run Seattle's defense against us last year. The Raiders did it a lot. It's like quite a few teams saw the script on how to beat CK from Seattle and tried to do the same thing.

hence the "copy cat" league for many reasons

it works because we dont adjust from doing the same long developing routes and the same run plays

no it "worked" because VD wasn't a threat at all last year and all of our receivers were molded from the same type.

VD never shows up against Seattle, and we didnt even try to use the TE's/RBs at all

im talking about against the teams that COPIED Seattle. and stating we ran "long developing routes" and ran the "same" plays is different than the personnel we failed to utilized. the passing concepts we ran were just fine but we were limited in several other ways despite that. (read what jonydel said in the post before me)

thats my point also, teams just let the DL crash the line, then play zone ..because our routes took time to develope...which wasn't enought time for kaep to do anything...teams saw it and mimiced it.

again, we had 3 receivers of the same mold with no speed at all. has nothing to do with calling the same plays over and over. but you could say, well, if that's the case why didn't we utilize our RB's out of the back field more? our staff surely was capable of it. But there are numerous people you could point at for that.

Some of our passing plays were flat out embarrassing. Having Kaepernick taking 7-step drops with only one option and a bunch of "decoys" is Highschool stuff.

We finally have our deepthreat in Smith, and regardless whether or not V.Davis is on our team come opening day we have a more explosive offense. We need to do everything in our power to take advantage of our new found speed, including Bush, to cause mismatches for opposing teams.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I actually saw quite a few teams run Seattle's defense against us last year. The Raiders did it a lot. It's like quite a few teams saw the script on how to beat CK from Seattle and tried to do the same thing.

hence the "copy cat" league for many reasons

it works because we dont adjust from doing the same long developing routes and the same run plays

no it "worked" because VD wasn't a threat at all last year and all of our receivers were molded from the same type.

VD never shows up against Seattle, and we didnt even try to use the TE's/RBs at all

im talking about against the teams that COPIED Seattle. and stating we ran "long developing routes" and ran the "same" plays is different than the personnel we failed to utilized. the passing concepts we ran were just fine but we were limited in several other ways despite that. (read what jonydel said in the post before me)

thats my point also, teams just let the DL crash the line, then play zone ..because our routes took time to develope...which wasn't enought time for kaep to do anything...teams saw it and mimiced it.

The type of plays you're referring to in the long developing deep routes are the "verticals", "speedo" and "sail" concepts. As far as those go, we only ran any of those 3 concepts a combined of about 10% of the time. Out of over 200 passing plays that I documented we ran last year, I counted about 21 of those concepts ran. There's still a couple games I haven't watched again that may or may not change the numbers - but it won't be significant. It's going to stick to about 10% of the time.

I think the long developing, only deep routes argument was made a while back and several guys have latched on to it because it sounds good - but, I didn't see it on film.

Kinda like the whole, "splitting miller out wide while Ellington and patton sat" - that only happened 4% of the time. We're majoring on minors.

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Some of our passing plays were flat out embarrassing. Having Kaepernick taking 7-step drops with only one option and a bunch of "decoys" is Highschool stuff.

We finally have our deepthreat in Smith, and regardless whether or not V.Davis is on our team come opening day we have a more explosive offense. We need to do everything in our power to take advantage of our new found speed, including Bush, to cause mismatches for opposing teams.

You mean like this? This is a 2 man route off PA and a 7 step drop. This is from Bill Walsh's playbook BTW.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
The type of plays you're referring to in the long developing deep routes are the "verticals", "speedo" and "sail" concepts. As far as those go, we only ran any of those 3 concepts a combined of about 10% of the time. Out of over 200 passing plays that I documented we ran last year, I counted about 21 of those concepts ran. There's still a couple games I haven't watched again that may or may not change the numbers - but it won't be significant. It's going to stick to about 10% of the time.

I think the long developing, only deep routes argument was made a while back and several guys have latched on to it because it sounds good - but, I didn't see it on film.

Kinda like the whole, "splitting miller out wide while Ellington and patton sat" - that only happened 4% of the time. We're majoring on minors.

All the plays take time even short routes...no creativity..the wrs dont even look back..if the QB needs to hit them sooner

and the whole rythmn of the plays and the timing of which play and down was so predictible ..not once was the RB option 1 on a pass play

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Some of our passing plays were flat out embarrassing. Having Kaepernick taking 7-step drops with only one option and a bunch of "decoys" is Highschool stuff.

We finally have our deepthreat in Smith, and regardless whether or not V.Davis is on our team come opening day we have a more explosive offense. We need to do everything in our power to take advantage of our new found speed, including Bush, to cause mismatches for opposing teams.

You mean like this? This is a 2 man route off PA and a 7 step drop. This is from Bill Walsh's playbook BTW.

Did you forget what makes that play work ?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Some of our passing plays were flat out embarrassing. Having Kaepernick taking 7-step drops with only one option and a bunch of "decoys" is Highschool stuff.

We finally have our deepthreat in Smith, and regardless whether or not V.Davis is on our team come opening day we have a more explosive offense. We need to do everything in our power to take advantage of our new found speed, including Bush, to cause mismatches for opposing teams.

You mean like this? This is a 2 man route off PA and a 7 step drop. This is from Bill Walsh's playbook BTW.

Did you forget what makes that play work ?

Nope, but that wasn't even the point. The point was 8n regards to a comment that labeled plays like this as, "high school". If it's so high school, then why did Walsh have it?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
The type of plays you're referring to in the long developing deep routes are the "verticals", "speedo" and "sail" concepts. As far as those go, we only ran any of those 3 concepts a combined of about 10% of the time. Out of over 200 passing plays that I documented we ran last year, I counted about 21 of those concepts ran. There's still a couple games I haven't watched again that may or may not change the numbers - but it won't be significant. It's going to stick to about 10% of the time.

I think the long developing, only deep routes argument was made a while back and several guys have latched on to it because it sounds good - but, I didn't see it on film.

Kinda like the whole, "splitting miller out wide while Ellington and patton sat" - that only happened 4% of the time. We're majoring on minors.

All the plays take time even short routes...no creativity..the wrs dont even look back..if the QB needs to hit them sooner

and the whole rythmn of the plays and the timing of which play and down was so predictible ..not once was the RB option 1 on a pass play

that's the essence of most concepts vs zone. That's why Teamd play zone, because it takes a little bit longer to defeat. Expecting to have a zone beating passing offense off 3 step drops all the time isn't gonna happen, it doesn't happen.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Nope, but that wasn't even the point. The point was 8n regards to a comment that labeled plays like this as, "high school". If it's so high school, then why did Walsh have it?

it worked because walsh would use the whole field and use all of his weapons..leaving the defense watching what we were going to do next so these plays would work..chess match

hopefully we can get back to that

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Nope, but that wasn't even the point. The point was 8n regards to a comment that labeled plays like this as, "high school". If it's so high school, then why did Walsh have it?

Walsh no doubt picked it up from sone of his HS coaching friends...like Holmgren!

so tired of living off the Bill Walsh years..i dont care about the 49ers legacy anymore....its 2015 not 1985...thats 30 YEARS AGO
no matter if he was one of the greatest architects of the game, quit holding everything up to the Walsh standard its pathetic. Green Bay fans aren't hinging everything that happens based on how Lombardi used to operate...

Originally posted by MannySoopa49ersnMD:
so tired of living off the Bill Walsh years..i dont care about the 49ers legacy anymore....its 2015 not 1985...thats 30 YEARS AGO
no matter if he was one of the greatest architects of the game, quit holding everything up to the Walsh standard its pathetic. Green Bay fans aren't hinging everything that happens based on how Lombardi used to operate...

The difference though, is that the offense that Walsh created and instituted is being used by the majority of teams in the NFL today. If you don't believe me, just pop in this years' madden and go through the passing concepts trainer - those are old Bill Walsh concepts. It's funny that you mention GB too, because their offense is completely based off of Bill Walsh. So, considering that Walsh ushered in the modern era of football and how football is played, why wouldn't we hold it to the Walsh standard?

Or is it pathetic that so many of the teams today try and do what Walsh did?

Originally posted by MannySoopa49ersnMD:
so tired of living off the Bill Walsh years..i dont care about the 49ers legacy anymore....its 2015 not 1985...thats 30 YEARS AGO
no matter if he was one of the greatest architects of the game, quit holding everything up to the Walsh standard its pathetic. Green Bay fans aren't hinging everything that happens based on how Lombardi used to operate...

Blasphemy!

in that case theres no need to continually rehash the idea that we need to run Bill Walsh plays if he has his hands all over essentially EVERYTHING

and u know exactly what I meant Jonny... fans screaming "thats a stupid play, why not run a Bill Walsh play"...and its like...geez I get it, he coached here, we won here...

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Nope, but that wasn't even the point. The point was 8n regards to a comment that labeled plays like this as, "high school". If it's so high school, then why did Walsh have it?

it worked because walsh would use the whole field and use all of his weapons..leaving the defense watching what we were going to do next so these plays would work..chess match

hopefully we can get back to that

I would contend though that the chessmatch was beyond that. It was about knowing, through careful study of the opposition, that, based off a certain personnel grouping and down and distance that you could predict what your opponent was going to do on defense and then use the correct concept accordingly to defeat your opponent. It was more than just using the whole field. Walsh believed that you could craft a gameplan and set your opponent up to be in a predictable defense so and that you could then win the battle before it began.

It's why he scripted the first 15 plays - to gather intelligence and to set up future plays, it's why he motioned backs out of the backfield into passing concepts - so that he could, through a personnel package, create a predictable defense and then defeat said defense. It's why film study was so important - not to study what you can do better, but to study how a defense plays on each particular down against each particular formation.

It's not that he was specifically choosing to attack one area of the field on one play and then another on the other play, it was about identifying what the defense would be doing and forcing them to be in a position to choose to defend one or the other and so, the ball went to different areas of the field depending on how the defense played.