Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by solidg2000:
Yeah and the 49ers as a whole, were far superior then the Colts

What about last year?
49ers as a whole were better then the Colts, yet the 49ers didn't make the playoffs

That's not the point. The point is too many people, when formulating a criticism of Kap, completely throw out anything good he's every done. Only the failures are considered, the successes are thrown out the window.

Conversely, they take another QB, glorify his successes, and completely ignore his failures, as if it never happened. Wiped from the history books.

Idk about you, but that's faulty reasoning to me. If people want to critique Kap' career, I'm cool with that, so long as his entire body of work is presented fairly.

Isnt the point that Kaepernick hasn't been the same since him good/great performances in 2012 and 2013? Last year was a failure of a season, for Kaep and the 49ers.

Kaep went 2-4 inside the division. Should of been 1-5 if it wasn't for the fact we were facing the Cardinals 6th string QB or something like that. The teams who know Kaep, had exposed him for everyone else

I can point out worse down years from QBs more highly regarded than Kap, and they were more experienced than Kap was in some cases.

Ben Roethlisberger
2006 -- 3513 yards, 18 TD, 23 INT, 75.4 rate
2008 -- 3301 yards, 17 TD, 15 INT, 80.1 rate

Joe Flacco
2013 -- 3912 yards, 19 TD, 22 INT, 73.1 rate

Eli Manning
2013 -- 3818 yards, 18 TD, 27 INT, 69.4 rate

All Super Bowl winning QBs. Down seasons for good QBs are not as rare or horrific as people will lead you to believe. Players bounce back all the time, ESPECIALLY players that have experienced some success before.

Originally posted by leakyfausett:

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by Stud:

Originally posted by leakyfausett:
He has done some good things but he is not a franchise QB. He is a run first throw second QB reliant on the read option that NFL defenses have caught up to. Just name one excellent running QB A top tier Qb .

Michael Vick...er....Kordell Stew......er.......Tim Tebow?

Since Young?
Cam Newton

I said Excellent top tier which Cam is not and if you mean Steve Young then you need to rethink football Because Steve Young was one of the best Passing Qb's out there and ran when he needed to except when he was in Tampa he ran well because he need to all the time.

What if San Francisco was Kap's Tampa? I sure as f**k hope not, but what if?

When your qb is confused, has lost confidence, and his fall back options can no longer work, it's time for the coaches to get him out of there. Period.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Andrew Luck
1929 attempts
58.4% comp
13,710 yards
91 TDs
50 INTs
Vs
Colin Kaepernick
1208 attempts
60.4% comp
8982 yards
52 TDs
25 INTs

Who do you got?
And how would Kaep look if he attempted as many passes as Luck?

Hard to say what Kap's numbers would be, but if we go by his per-attempt production:

14,342 yards
83 TDs
40 INTs

I think that compares pretty favorably, statistically speaking. Couple in his W-L record, and playoff victories, and you have a QB that has done a lot of good in this league. He's going through a tough patch in his career, but he's not a lost cause. Not even close.

That's not how it works. Lol
I didn't mean projections

I meant if Kaep was asked to throw as much as Luck, would he have the same or better results. The answer is no. We are 4-9 when Kaepernick attempt 31+ passes.
Luck average is 38 attempts per game

Originally posted by solidg2000:
That's not how it works. Lol
I didn't mean projections

I meant if Kaep was asked to throw as much as Luck, would he have the same or better results. The answer is no. We are 4-9 when Kaepernick attempt 31+ passes.
Luck average is 38 attempts per game

I know what you meant, and as I said, it's impossible to know what his results would look like. It was a loaded question to begin with. Both offense and defense function differently when the gameplan is to throw the ball.

Only thing I could by is a per-attempt projection. Any other method and you'd just be pulling numbers out of the sky.

Originally posted by BOI49er:

A month ago, yes. Now, a bag of Lays Clasics Party Pack. Sad! But, a month ago, they'd have endured a fan rebellion, and that would have taken leadership.

I challenged Tomsula after that last preseason game to bench Kaepernick. He was totally lost, and in a fog. I know Tomsula saw it. He's a football guy, he's spent a career trying to confuse qb's and knows what it looks like, and I could see on his face that he recognized it. Sure, he'd have to ask for a meeting with Jed and Trent to make the case, but that's leadership. I've refrained from criticizing him as we didn't know what he knew about offense, but I'm going to criticize him now big time for lack of leadership and guts to do what I absolutely know he knew what had to be done.

Perhaps I'm being unfair and he did do that, and Trent shot him down, in which case all the above criticism belongs to Trent. Another possibility is that Trent does see it and wants to keep playing Kaepernick to preserve maximum trade value while he shops him. If we don't trade him soon, it is on Trent.

Here's the bottom line. You can't win a Lombardi trophy if you don't have a qb that can make reads and adjustments of all kinds QUICKLY, at NFL speeds, to stay a step ahead of defenses, and we don't.

Do you think Gabbert is that guy?
Kaepernick came pretty close to winning one of those Lombardi trophies.

Originally posted by dj43:

Those are the things Harbaugh SHOULD have been teaching him but never did.

The question is; does Tomsula and staff have the time to teach him, or should they sit him and go with Gabbert, or should they hope he learns on the job?

Neither did the guy that was promoted to OC and Kaepernick was really his only job.
Who has more upside? That is who should start.

Originally posted by leakyfausett:

I said Excellent top tier which Cam is not and if you mean Steve Young then you need to rethink football Because Steve Young was one of the best Passing Qb's out there and ran when he needed to except when he was in Tampa he ran well because he need to all the time.

Yes Steve Young became a passing QB, when he came to SF, but his criticism was always that he's a run first QB. Even his early years in SF, that was his criticism

Which QBs would you take over Cam?

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

A month ago, yes. Now, a bag of Lays Clasics Party Pack. Sad! But, a month ago, they'd have endured a fan rebellion, and that would have taken leadership.

I challenged Tomsula after that last preseason game to bench Kaepernick. He was totally lost, and in a fog. I know Tomsula saw it. He's a football guy, he's spent a career trying to confuse qb's and knows what it looks like, and I could see on his face that he recognized it. Sure, he'd have to ask for a meeting with Jed and Trent to make the case, but that's leadership. I've refrained from criticizing him as we didn't know what he knew about offense, but I'm going to criticize him now big time for lack of leadership and guts to do what I absolutely know he knew what had to be done.

Perhaps I'm being unfair and he did do that, and Trent shot him down, in which case all the above criticism belongs to Trent. Another possibility is that Trent does see it and wants to keep playing Kaepernick to preserve maximum trade value while he shops him. If we don't trade him soon, it is on Trent.

Here's the bottom line. You can't win a Lombardi trophy if you don't have a qb that can make reads and adjustments of all kinds QUICKLY, at NFL speeds, to stay a step ahead of defenses, and we don't.

Do you think Gabbert is that guy?
Kaepernick came pretty close to winning one of those Lombardi trophies.

That was then. This is now. It can't happen again now that the league has learned how to play him.

To answer your question, I don't know. But I'll say this. Even if you had to go with your young practice squad guy, you wouldn't win now, but you would get a take on his ability to be developed, and therefore illuminate the road ahead so as to not waste more time and talent.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

I can point out worse down years from QBs more highly regarded than Kap, and they were more experienced than Kap was in some cases.

Ben Roethlisberger
2006 -- 3513 yards, 18 TD, 23 INT, 75.4 rate
2008 -- 3301 yards, 17 TD, 15 INT, 80.1 rate

Joe Flacco
2013 -- 3912 yards, 19 TD, 22 INT, 73.1 rate

Eli Manning
2013 -- 3818 yards, 18 TD, 27 INT, 69.4 rate

All Super Bowl winning QBs. Down seasons for good QBs are not as rare or horrific as people will lead you to believe. Players bounce back all the time, ESPECIALLY players that have experienced some success before.

Big bens down year was the super bowl year...
Down years are real possibilities. But while these guys had down years their overall careers show progression throughout. And the down year is/was an anomaly. Kaepernick has been on a decline after year 1. That's what everyone sees. That's what worries everyone.

Originally posted by BOI49er:

That was then. This is now. It can't happen again now that the league has learned how to play him.

To answer your question, I don't know. But I'll say this. Even if you had to go with your young practice squad guy, you wouldn't win now, but you would get a take on his ability to be developed, and therefore illuminate the road ahead so as to not waste more time and talent.

The league has learned how to play him a bit and the offensive line has gone to crap the past two seasons with no effort made to improve it and a QB coach who didn't seem to help Kapernick was made OC and hasn't shown much innovation in his game plans.

You want to see Dylan Thompson suit it up this Sunday?

If we build the trenches and get a competent OC, Kap is all the QB we need.

He's not great, but he is dynamic.

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by BOI49er:
A month ago, yes. Now, a bag of Lays Clasics Party Pack. Sad! But, a month ago, they'd have endured a fan rebellion, and that would have taken leadership.

I challenged Tomsula after that last preseason game to bench Kaepernick. He was totally lost, and in a fog. I know Tomsula saw it. He's a football guy, he's spent a career trying to confuse qb's and knows what it looks like, and I could see on his face that he recognized it. Sure, he'd have to ask for a meeting with Jed and Trent to make the case, but that's leadership. I've refrained from criticizing him as we didn't know what he knew about offense, but I'm going to criticize him now big time for lack of leadership and guts to do what I absolutely know he knew what had to be done.

Perhaps I'm being unfair and he did do that, and Trent shot him down, in which case all the above criticism belongs to Trent. Another possibility is that Trent does see it and wants to keep playing Kaepernick to preserve maximum trade value while he shops him. If we don't trade him soon, it is on Trent.

Here's the bottom line. You can't win a Lombardi trophy if you don't have a qb that can make reads and adjustments of all kinds QUICKLY, at NFL speeds, to stay a step ahead of defenses, and we don't.

Do you think Gabbert is that guy?
Kaepernick came pretty close to winning one of those Lombardi trophies.

That was then. This is now. It can't happen again now that the league has learned how to play him.

To answer your question, I don't know. But I'll say this. Even if you had to go with your young practice squad guy, you wouldn't win now, but you would get a take on his ability to be developed, and therefore illuminate the road ahead so as to not waste more time and talent.

Kaep had a top 5 defense at the time

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
I can point out worse down years from QBs more highly regarded than Kap, and they were more experienced than Kap was in some cases.

Ben Roethlisberger
2006 -- 3513 yards, 18 TD, 23 INT, 75.4 rate
2008 -- 3301 yards, 17 TD, 15 INT, 80.1 rate

Joe Flacco
2013 -- 3912 yards, 19 TD, 22 INT, 73.1 rate

Eli Manning
2013 -- 3818 yards, 18 TD, 27 INT, 69.4 rate

All Super Bowl winning QBs. Down seasons for good QBs are not as rare or horrific as people will lead you to believe. Players bounce back all the time, ESPECIALLY players that have experienced some success before.

Big bens down year was the super bowl year...
Down years are real possibilities. But while these guys had down years their overall careers show progression throughout. And the down year is/was an anomaly. Kaepernick has been on a decline after year 1. That's what everyone sees. That's what worries everyone.

Last year his QB rating was 86.4. The two other seasons he was 90+. Not a down year in 2013, he nearly went to the SB for the 2nd straight season. He never plunged to the depths of the 70s, or in the case of Manning, the 60's in QB rating.

He's in year 3 as a full-time starter. Those seasons for the above QBs happened in Year 3, 5, 6, and 10.

So you tell me, since these QBs are natural pocket passers, understand their progressions, are "real" QBs,.. and all that good stuff.....how is it they had such terrible seasons? They had quality skill positions players to throw to, go look up their rosters. What was their excuse? Since there is no excuse for Kap, he just sucks, right?

I just pointed out 3 highly regarded QBs in a span of a few seasons that had down years worse than Kap's. There's many more throughout NFL history if you take the time to look, and yet people continue to blow it off like it never happened, and that Kap's situation is somehow "different" and that he could "never" overcome it.

People want to doubt Kap, and that's fine. Completely warranted. I have my doubts as well, but I wouldn't close the book on him just yet. We still have 13 games to play.