Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by elguapo:
No and please don't put words in my mouth. You assumed wrong like most of this thread your logic is flawed as well as your short sighted arguments. Montana is the goat for many reasons and Brady is 2. Michael Jordan has lost games but he is the goat. Montana is just a lot more clutch than Brady and played against way harder competition. Done

why is michael jordan the GOAT when bill russell won more rings? kareem also won the same amount of the ring and mvps and have much better stats? have you ever thought about that?

i too think MJ is the GOAT. why? because i've seen his dominance.

and just like MJ i've seen Brady's dominance. which IMO is much longer version of Montana's. and you can't just use the ring argument(which also favors brady 5>4).

in GOAT debate you look at EVERYTHING.

i look at these when i determine the GOAT

-rings
-SB performance
-playoff performance
-playoff wins
-regular season wins
-records held
-bulk statistics
-efficciency statistics
-eye test
-era/rules
-offensive cast
-how much team's defense helped the team
-what their circumstances were
-intangibles
-leadership
-overall impact of the game

all of these matters. obviously SB accomplishment is the most important. when you stack them up and compare brady comes out at the top all the time.

don't feed the troll

Originally posted by Vegasodds101:

Yes Joe was extremely lucky to be a 49ers during that era. Not sure why that is a problem for you as it's not news, it's fact. Doesn't mean Joe isn't all time great. If Brady was drafted by any other team than the Patriots, he wouldn't have 5 SB's. It goes both ways, it's OK to admit Joe wasn't perfect and had help. Niners816 said he'd love to have seen Montana with Walsh and Rice in today's NFL, as would I. I would have also loved to see Brady with Walsh and Rice. The undisputed best receiver of all time and the consensus best offensive mind of all time. Belichick and Rice to go with Brady for 16 years would be great too.

Another montana thread only poster whos here to troll joe.

What the world needs now.

Joe is lucky to be in such a system. What garbage. Joe made the system. Kenny Anderson spent the better part of his career in the same system. Are we talking about Kenny Anderson? Steve deberg was the original wco qb. How lucky he was to be in such a system.

I guess Deacon Jones was "pretty lucky" to play with Merlin Olsen. And Mel Renfro was "pretty lucky" to play with Herb Adderly. And Jim Taylor was "pretty lucky" to play with Paul Hornung.

But Tom Brady is the genius that makes McDaniels spread offense go.

GTFO.

Lmao y'all still arguing this? Tom Brady is MJ. 28-3 is the greatest performance in the Super Bowl history

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

don't feed the troll

Watch it buddy you were warned. Keep it up and you will get a timeout if that's what you are gunning for. Give it a rest. Pathetic post by you

Originally posted by MCrabs15:

Lmao y'all still arguing this? Tom Brady is MJ. 28-3 is the greatest performance in the Super Bowl history

Nope Montana is MJ. Brady LOST Super Bowls with moss and welker playing elite against s**tty competition. Enough said. And he's always had a top defense to help him out.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

don't feed the troll

Watch it buddy you were warned. Keep it up and you will get a timeout if that's what you are gunning for. Give it a rest. Pathetic post by you

Lulz

Originally posted by PrisonOfGlass:

Lulz

Lol way to contribute as usual

Originally posted by elguapo:

Nope Montana is MJ. Brady LOST Super Bowls with moss and welker playing elite against s**tty competition. Enough said. And he's always had a top defense to help him out.

Again...a one sided argument. When did Montana win without a top 4 defense? He did't so you can't use that as an argument against Brady. Brady in 2011 brought the 2nd worst ranked defense (at the time) in NFL history to the SB. Do I really think that was the 2nd worst defense ever, no but it wasn't good. Until this year's SB, the Patriots had the lead at the two minute warning in all 6 previous SB's. Pats great defense gave it up in 4 of those games and tried really hard to in 2014. Brady was good enough to get the team back for GW kicks in two of those games. Add what he did in the last two super bowls traiing by 10 and 25 points respectively is just amazing clutchness...5 GW drives in Brady's 5 wins and should have been a 6th in 2007 if their GREAT defense didn't give it up.

Montana did play the Bungles twice, and Miami and Denver in his 4 appearances. The 8O's was the decade of the NFC. The 80's AFC were probably the worst decade ever for a conference. Joe took advantage and beat up on weaker teams. Brady has a tougher resume in SB....Greatest Show on Turf, Seahawks with their generational defense, and the the Falcons with one of the best offensive sets of all time to name a few. There are plenty of reasons why most people have Brady as the GOAT, these are just a few. Nobody is putting Montana down, he was amazing, he just wasn't as perfect as you want him to be.

Not one-sided at all. He lost two of them plain and simple why is that so hard to understand? That is not clutch and Brady had much much easier competition on his way through the playoffs and in the Super Bowl. That is a fact so you definitely are giving Brady too much credit. But that's OK I understand. And the bangles you speak of had a great offense in 89 and they had an MVP quarterback? Did you realize that? And I don't need to make Montana out to be perfect but he's the closest thing to a perfect quarterback there has ever been. Especially in Super Bowls. And just in case you didn't realize playing great in a Super Bowl is probably the most important thing a quarterback can do. So you should judge them more on that game then any other games in their career.

And nobody is putting down Brady he's just not as perfect as you want him to be

Losing in the wild card is no different than losing in the Super Bowl. Eli is not better than Tom because he's 2-0. 5-2 is better than 4-0 because it's 1 additional ring. That being said Brady had a longer career so I'd still give the edge to Joe.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Losing in the wild card is no different than losing in the Super Bowl. Eli is not better than Tom because he's 2-0. 5-2 is better than 4-0 because it's 1 additional ring. That being said Brady had a longer career so I'd still give the edge to Joe.

I still give the edge to Joe as well however there is a reason it's called the big game. It is different and we are not comparing Eli Manning to Tom Brady we are comparing Joe Montana to Tom Brady so those differences Really make or break the case for the best quarterback of all time.

Originally posted by elguapo:

I still give the edge to Joe as well however there is a reason it's called the big game. It is different and we are not comparing Eli Manning to Tom Brady we are comparing Joe Montana to Tom Brady so those differences Really make or break the case for the best quarterback of all time.

Not different to the point where you pretend a loss in it is worse than losing in the wild cards. That's just being silly. I get why fans think like that but it's not rational. Bradshaw is 4-0 too and no one has him in their 10 so it's also an overblown argument.

Brady won 2 rings straight up as a game manager. Montana never led the league in passing. Football is the ultimate team sport so to ignore that both of these guys worked with top 10 D's every year, for the most part had very good rushing attacks also has to be factored. I still put Joe #1 but I don't think it's like Rice where it's lol go ahead and argue someone else.

Originally posted by Vegasodds101:

Again...a one sided argument. When did Montana win without a top 4 defense? He did't so you can't use that as an argument against Brady. Brady in 2011 brought the 2nd worst ranked defense (at the time) in NFL history to the SB. Do I really think that was the 2nd worst defense ever, no but it wasn't good. Until this year's SB, the Patriots had the lead at the two minute warning in all 6 previous SB's. Pats great defense gave it up in 4 of those games and tried really hard to in 2014. Brady was good enough to get the team back for GW kicks in two of those games. Add what he did in the last two super bowls traiing by 10 and 25 points respectively is just amazing clutchness...5 GW drives in Brady's 5 wins and should have been a 6th in 2007 if their GREAT defense didn't give it up.

Montana did play the Bungles twice, and Miami and Denver in his 4 appearances. The 8O's was the decade of the NFC. The 80's AFC were probably the worst decade ever for a conference. Joe took advantage and beat up on weaker teams. Brady has a tougher resume in SB....Greatest Show on Turf, Seahawks with their generational defense, and the the Falcons with one of the best offensive sets of all time to name a few. There are plenty of reasons why most people have Brady as the GOAT, these are just a few. Nobody is putting Montana down, he was amazing, he just wasn't as perfect as you want him to be.

1984 Dolphins were 14-2 and scored over 500 pts. The 1989 broncos had the the number 1 scoring defense and number 3 defense based on yards(which is what the NFL bases ranking on). Speaking up which, based on how the NFL rates defenses the 1984 niners were 10th. So not every defense was a top 4 unit. Again this goes to what you needed to win a super bowl back in the 80s. You say Brady carried a bad defense to the SB in '11, that's because this watered down era allows this when you are an all time QB.

That might be true to you but you and I know that Bradshaw did not win any of those games it was mainly the defense and running game. So again comparing Brady and Montana when they are that close the big game does matter nobody's pretending losses don't count or aren't as important however in the Super Bowl you need to be at your very best and Brady has not been. Just saying

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by Vegasodds101:

Again...a one sided argument. When did Montana win without a top 4 defense? He did't so you can't use that as an argument against Brady. Brady in 2011 brought the 2nd worst ranked defense (at the time) in NFL history to the SB. Do I really think that was the 2nd worst defense ever, no but it wasn't good. Until this year's SB, the Patriots had the lead at the two minute warning in all 6 previous SB's. Pats great defense gave it up in 4 of those games and tried really hard to in 2014. Brady was good enough to get the team back for GW kicks in two of those games. Add what he did in the last two super bowls traiing by 10 and 25 points respectively is just amazing clutchness...5 GW drives in Brady's 5 wins and should have been a 6th in 2007 if their GREAT defense didn't give it up.

Montana did play the Bungles twice, and Miami and Denver in his 4 appearances. The 8O's was the decade of the NFC. The 80's AFC were probably the worst decade ever for a conference. Joe took advantage and beat up on weaker teams. Brady has a tougher resume in SB....Greatest Show on Turf, Seahawks with their generational defense, and the the Falcons with one of the best offensive sets of all time to name a few. There are plenty of reasons why most people have Brady as the GOAT, these are just a few. Nobody is putting Montana down, he was amazing, he just wasn't as perfect as you want him to be.

1984 Dolphins were 14-2 and scored over 500 pts. The 1989 broncos had the the number 1 scoring defense and number 3 defense based on yards(which is what the NFL bases ranking on). Speaking up which, based on how the NFL rates defenses the 1984 niners were 10th. So not every defense was a top 4 unit. Again this goes to what you needed to win a super bowl back in the 80s. You say Brady carried a bad defense to the SB in '11, that's because this watered down era allows this when you are an all time QB.

Good post I think he was misunderstanding the competition in the 80s. Anyone that watches that era...it's painfully obvious the teams were much much better. And Montana had a way harder time but he did so much better dominating the competition that was much harder.Putting up over 50 points on the number one defense and putting to rest Marino versus Montana was a huge accomplishment.