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Originally posted by verb1der:That's an interesting take.
Imo, it's a tie.
Brady = Montana, period.
And if you had to start a team you can't go wrong with having either or.
Originally posted by Niners816:I really do like Brady and love the fact he grew up a niner fan. My point is Tom has only had 3 seasons in which he failed to get 500 attempts and has had over 600 attempts 5-6 times. Joe on the other had only had 2 seasons that he actually got 500 attempts ('83 & '90).
Originally posted by theduke85:
"Astounding lack of common sense"? Wow, classy!
Look, let me be clear with what I'm saying here: everyone seems to agree that the best teams Joe Montana faced were in the NFC, right? That AFC was weaker. This is indisputable. The NFCCG was the "de facto" Super Bowl, just like Sanders said in '94, or Sherman was in '13. The opponents were stronger in the NFC.
What's more impressive: Kaepernick throwing for 3 TD / 0 INT / a 130 passer rating against the 2014 Seahawks, or Kaepernick throwing for 3 TD / 0 INT / 130 passer rating against the St. Louis Rams? Obviously it's against the Seahawks. The Seahawks are a superior team. Just like the Giants/Redskins/Bears were superior to AFC teams.
People cling to the fact that Montana was "perfect" in the Super Bowl (never lost, never threw a pick). Why do you think his numbers were so great in the Super Bowl? Do you think that he just had a magical aura that surrounding him in the Super Bowl? NO. Of course his numbers were better, he was playing lesser teams. (If it was a magical aura, did it just not activate in other playoff games, even though every playoff game is win-or-go-home?)
The fact is, when facing his mightiest opponents, he was anything but perfect. In the 1984 championship game against the Bears, he threw 1 TD / 2 INT / 60.0 passer rating; in the Super Bowl, he went for 3 TD / 0 INT / 127.2 passer rating. Do you think the Dolphins had a better defense than the Bears!?
In 1985 against the Giants, Montana for 0 TD / 1 INT / 65.6 passer rating (one-and-done).
In 1986 against the Giants, Montana went for 0 TD, 2 INT / 34.2 passer rating (a game he was knocked of; another one-and-done).
In 1987 against the Vikings, Montana went for 0 TD / 1 INT / 42.0 passer rating (he was benched for Steve Young midway through).
Montana was not perfect. He had bad games. The Super Bowl did not consist of his toughest opponents. When he played the truly tough teams, he was far for perfect. He had some great games (1988 NFCCG against the Bears, etc) and he also had some terrible games.
Let me ask you this: suppose the Redskins/Giants/Bears (hypothetically) played in the AFC. Surely, the 49ers would've made more Super Bowls, right? However, do you think if he was playing those teams in the Super Bowl that he still would've never thrown an interception? Do you think he still would've been undefeated in the big game? If the answer is "yes" to either question, then I've got a bridge to sell you. His perfection in the Super Bowl is romanticized. Yes, his accomplishments are mind-blowing and sensational, but given the fact that the NFC won 15 of 16 Super Bowls, I can't help but take the numbers with a little bit of a grain of salt. (See: Kaepernick vs. Rams / Kaepernick vs. Seahawks from second paragraph of this post.) It does not diminish the fact that he won the Super Bowls, however.
To me it boils down to this: both have four Super Bowls. Brady has a career .724 playoff win%, Montana is at .696. Brady has a career playoffs rating of 95.0, Brady is at 89.0 (and if we adjust for era, Montana's rating is probably closer to 100-105). Montana undoubtedly had a better supporting cast, because he played in an era where superteams could be assembled and held together. Both have a resume littered with unbelievable accomplishments. Most outside parties will tell you it's a coin flip.
Originally posted by Niners816:Originally posted by verb1der:That's an interesting take.
Imo, it's a tie.
Brady = Montana, period.
And if you had to start a team you can't go wrong with having either or.
I really do like Brady and love the fact he grew up a niner fan. My point is Tom has only had 3 seasons in which he failed to get 500 attempts and has had over 600 attempts 5-6 times. Joe on the other had only had 2 seasons that he actually got 500 attempts ('83 & '90).
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:Just curious, did you watch the Super Bowl this year? It doesn't sound like you did, so let me fill you in:. Brady engineered one of the best comebacks in NFL Super Bowl history by dismantling the vaunted Seahawks defense in the 4th quarter. You think just anyone can do that?
you are on the pipe my friend. Joe executed perfect game plans perfectly. And you turn it around like the opponents were trash. Wow. Did you watch any of those games? How old are you? The opponents were made to look like trash because of walsh/joe. The comebacks? You think anyone does that? Are you for real? This is just so stupid. Brady has simply not been an elite performer since the knee. He was better before but simply not up to joe standard of execution -- and many other qbs as well. Rodgers. Contemporary Brees. E Manning? I think so.
I have no idea what you think you are accomplishing by quoting a whole bunch of era- inflated stats.It's unlikelt you watched many 49er games from the early mid 80s
Originally posted by 49erFan816:The NFL was still much of a running game up with great defense until they started changing the rules to help the passing game in the mid 2000s. This was with teams like the 83 Redskins, 94 49ers, 98 Vikings and Broncos, and 99-01 Rams scoring 500+ points in a season with great passing games.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:Originally posted by Niners816:Originally posted by verb1der:That's an interesting take.
Imo, it's a tie.
Brady = Montana, period.
And if you had to start a team you can't go wrong with having either or.
I really do like Brady and love the fact he grew up a niner fan. My point is Tom has only had 3 seasons in which he failed to get 500 attempts and has had over 600 attempts 5-6 times. Joe on the other had only had 2 seasons that he actually got 500 attempts ('83 & '90).
You are insane in the membrane. How old are you?
Originally posted by theduke85:Just curious, did you watch the Super Bowl this year? It doesn't sound like you did, so let me fill you in:. Brady engineered one of the best comebacks in NFL Super Bowl history by dismantling the vaunted Seahawks defense in the 4th quarter. You think just anyone can do that?
Oh wait, I bet you did watch it. And I'm sure you and 80% of this board has a bunch of cynical excuses to try to downplay what Brady did in that game.
"The Seahawks defense was hurt."
"Joe would've never fell behind in a Super Bowl."
"Brady threw two incompletions in the fourth quarter. Joe wouldn't have missed a single pass."
At this point, it's comical reading the things people say to downplay Brady's accomplishments. It's grasping at straws. It reeks of complete insecurity. It's just a game guys. Some of you act like entertaining the idea of Brady being on Montana's level is the equivalent of cheating on your wives. Good grief.
Originally posted by Niners816:Who are you talking to? If it's me you best look at my past posts in this thread. I pick joe all day everyday. The only thing Brady has on joe is raw numbers because he has had more attempts. If Joe got the 600-650 attempts that qbs do today he wouks have had multiple 4000-4500 seasons. That has been my stance since first commenting is this thread. Joe also dominated a much tougher era of football.
Edit: I can see the confusion....I was talking personally I like Brady as a person.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:What kind of pretentious question is this? I'm 28, I wasn't even sentient during the majority of his career. Do you think somehow makes your opinion better or more valid than mine?
answer my question. How many games did you watch Joe Montana actually play?
Originally posted by theduke85:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:What kind of pretentious question is this? I'm 28, I wasn't even sentient during the majority of his career. Do you think somehow makes your opinion better or more valid than mine?
answer my question. How many games did you watch Joe Montana actually play?
Originally posted by verb1der:
looks like a tie to me