Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Both Montana and Brady are great QBs in their own right.

The rules were a lot different in the 80s, and there was/is a salary cap when Brady played. It's not worth comparing diff eras.

Originally posted by TB12:

Ok, let's say you're right. However, Montana was never statistically the best QB of his OWN era. Marino, Elway, and Moon were better statistically, even though they never won super bowls in the 80s. Montana had one thing - and that is he won 4 super bowls against average competition and did not lose in the big game. I'm not saying that isn't impressive, it is, But I don't fall for the argument "Joe is 4-0 in Super Bowls and therefore better than any QB in NFL history," which not many people make these days (after Brady winning #5 last year) but some folks do. Montana was great in the playoffs but struggled at times against good teams (as well as beating a few good teams). It is a fantasy notion that Montana was "perfect" in the playoffs. He was no.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by TB12:

Originally posted by English:

No it doesnt. Brady's career has been extended by the rules preventing D's from going all out on the qb's and his figures have been inflated by the rules protecting receivers. Free agency hasnt hurt qb's as it offers the opportunity to sign experienced players. Nothing cuts both ways. The game is quite different and favors the O.

Ok, let's say you're right. However, Montana was never statistically the best QB of his OWN era. Marino, Elway, and Moon were better statistically, even though they never won super bowls in the 80s. You can't blame that on the rules of the era since other QBs during that time faced them too.

Montana had one thing - and that is he won 4 super bowls against average competition and did not lose in the big game. I'm not saying that isn't impressive, it is, But I don't fall for the argument "Joe is 4-0 in Super Bowls and therefore better than any QB in NFL history," which not many people make these days (after Brady winning #5 last year) but some folks do. Montana was great in the playoffs but struggled at times against good teams (as well as beating a few good teams). It is a fantasy notion that Montana was "perfect" in the playoffs. He was not. Heck, Troy Aikman is 3-0 in the super bowls and Bradshaw in 4-0. Neither of them come up in the GOAT debate.

13-5
14-4
16-2
14-4

Those are the records of the teams that Montana beat in the Super Bowl.

average
NOUN
A number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

Ok let's breakdown each team these guys faced in Super Bowls.
Niners
1981 Bengals OFF (3rd pts, 2nd yds) DEF (12th pts, 12th yds)
1984 Dolphins OFF (1st pts, 1st yds) DEF (7th pts, 19th yds)
1988 Bengals OFF (1st pts, 1st yds) DEF (16th pts, 15th yds)
1989 Broncos OFF (8th pts, 15th yds) DEF (1st pts, 3rd yds)

Pats
2001 Rams OFF (1,1) DEF (7,3)
2003 Pathers OFF (15,16) DEF (10,8)
2004 Eagles OFF (8,9) DEF (2,10)
2007 Giants OFF (14,16) DEF (17, 7)
2011 Giants OFF (9,8) DEF (25,27)
2014 Seahawks OFF (10,9) DEF (1,1)
2016 Falcons OFF (1,2) DEF (27,25)
2017 Eagles OFF (3,7) DEF (4,4)

So the average offense Joe faced was 3rd in Points and 5th in yards. The average defense for Joe was 9th in Points and 12th in yards. Toms ave faced offense was 8th in Points and 9th in yards. Average def was 12th in Points and 11th in yards.

Everyone knows with the salary cap teams aren't as good today but that also goes for the New England Patriots. They have half the talent that the Niners had. We never had to watch a 17 sack guy leave in free agency.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Everyone knows with the salary cap teams aren't as good today but that also goes for the New England Patriots. They have half the talent that the Niners had. We never had to watch a 17 sack guy leave in free agency.

Tim Harris left after having 17 sacks in 1992 to sign with Philly. This move really stung after missing out on Reggie White that offseason.

Also we lost a DPOY and 15 sack interior linemen in Stubblefield after the '97 season.

Edit: I'm sure you're referring to the 80s. I just saw that 17 sacks and thought of Harris in 92-93. I always lump the whole era as the Niner dynasty. Your point stands for Joe's 80s teams.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Everyone knows with the salary cap teams aren't as good today but that also goes for the New England Patriots. They have half the talent that the Niners had. We never had to watch a 17 sack guy leave in free agency.

Brady had more all pros and pro bowlers than Montana ever had.

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
My GOAT doesn't cheat
My GOAT doesn't lose a Superbowl
My GOAT doesn't lose to a backup QB
My GOAT doesn't kiss his kids or dad in the mouth

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by TB12:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Montana won his first two super bowls without rice and taylor

Brady won his first super bowl his first year as starter. Montana didn't get his until his 3rd year.

Meaningless information is meaningless. If you must try to make comparisons between different era, try to have a real basis for the comparison.

1981 was Joe's first full year as a starter. Not that it really matters.

The Catch vs. the Tuck Rule... I'll go with the Catch!

Brady has Montana in SB wins, TD's, yardage...just about every stat you can name. I guess I just don't get this whole "Montana's legacy is secured". In Niner history, he's certainly a legacy player. In SB history, Brady has him, no question about it.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:

Brady has Montana in SB wins, TD's, yardage...just about every stat you can name. I guess I just don't get this whole "Montana's legacy is secured". In Niner history, he's certainly a legacy player. In SB history, Brady has him, no question about it.

Brady is to Lebron as Montana is to Jordan.

Does anyone know how many of the teams Joe lost to in the playoffs went on to win the Superbowl. I'd be curious.

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Brady is to Lebron as Montana is to Jordan.

Don't be ridiculous. Getting to the Superbowl in the NFL is MUCH more difficult than getting to the NBA Finals.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Brady has Montana in SB wins, TD's, yardage...just about every stat you can name. I guess I just don't get this whole "Montana's legacy is secured". In Niner history, he's certainly a legacy player. In SB history, Brady has him, no question about it.

maybe because tom would have been hurt years ago with the same rules. Maybe because tom needs to call Joe and say "Hey how do you not lose in the superbowl, and how don't your thrown an int in one too?"

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Brady has Montana in SB wins, TD's, yardage...just about every stat you can name. I guess I just don't get this whole "Montana's legacy is secured". In Niner history, he's certainly a legacy player. In SB history, Brady has him, no question about it.

Question for you. Who would you want at qb in the most important game of your life. All bias aside, the undefeated guy

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Brady is to Lebron as Montana is to Jordan.

Don't be ridiculous. Getting to the Superbowl in the NFL is MUCH more difficult than getting to the NBA Finals.

Lulz. ARe you just trying to be sarcastic?

Since 2001 the Patsies have won their division 15 times.

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Brady has Montana in SB wins, TD's, yardage...just about every stat you can name. I guess I just don't get this whole "Montana's legacy is secured". In Niner history, he's certainly a legacy player. In SB history, Brady has him, no question about it.

Question for you. Who would you want at qb in the most important game of your life. All bias aside, the undefeated guy

All time starting skill position players from the 1980's through the present:

1st Team:

QB: Joe Montana
RB: LaDainian Tomlinson
WR: Jerry Rice
WR: Calvin Johnson
TE: Tony Gonzalez

Second Team:

QB: Tom Brady
RB: Marshall Faulk
WR: Randy Moss
WR: Marvin Harrison
TE: Rob Gronkowski