Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Lulz. ARe you just trying to be sarcastic?

Since 2001 the Patsies have won their division 15 times.

What exactly was your point bringing up Lebron?

I assumed it was to point out that Brady gets to more SBs but doesn't win as much?

The thing that people ignore about Brady's 5-3 SB record is how friggin difficult it is to get to the SB, ESPECIALLY in the salary cap era.

Since the salary cap was introduced the Pats have made the SB 8 times with Tom Brady.

I could've missed an appearance but it looks like Denver and Pittsburgh are tied with 4 trips to the SB during that time which includes 7 years before Brady became a starter.

That's crazy and so is the fact that people around here want to dog Brady for losing in the SB because somehow NOT getting there(and having any chance to get a W) is somehow better than getting there and losing. Especially when Brady was in every SB he lost and had leads taken away by his defense giving up late scores.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Does anyone know how many of the teams Joe lost to in the playoffs went on to win the Superbowl. I'd be curious.

3 (83 Skins and 86/90 Giants)

Edit: was wrong about 83 skins

Originally posted by fan49:
Question for you. Who would you want at qb in the most important game of your life. All bias aside, the undefeated guy

Were the playoff games Joe lost not important enough?

The most important game of your life is the playoff game you're playing in...end of story.

You're telling me Joe wasn't giving 100% until he got to the Superbowl?

I guess it's settled then.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Does anyone know how many of the teams Joe lost to in the playoffs went on to win the Superbowl. I'd be curious.

3 (83 Skins and 86/90 Giants)

83 Skins lost to the raiders. Skins won in 82

Originally posted by NCommand:
I guess it's settled then.

"Joe Montana is officially back in the spot of the greatest QB of all time. He is the GOAT -- 4-0, 11 TDs, 0 INTs, 3 MVPs... With this loss now, Brady is out of the conversation." — @RobParkerFS1 pic.twitter.com/I0GkpZKvGU

— UNDISPUTED (@undisputed) February 6, 2018

So Brady throws for 500 yards and 3 TDs against one of the best defenses in the league as his defense can't get a single stop in the 2nd half against a backup QB and Brady get's knocked down a peg?

Idiotic...

I said this before...if Joe's defense gave up 41 points the way Brady's did he would've been 1-3 in SBs. Doesn't have quite the ring to it does it?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I guess it's settled then.

"Joe Montana is officially back in the spot of the greatest QB of all time. He is the GOAT -- 4-0, 11 TDs, 0 INTs, 3 MVPs... With this loss now, Brady is out of the conversation." — @RobParkerFS1 pic.twitter.com/I0GkpZKvGU

— UNDISPUTED (@undisputed) February 6, 2018

So Brady throws for 500 yards and 3 TDs against one of the best defenses in the league as his defense can't get a single stop in the 2nd half against a backup QB and Brady get's knocked down a peg?

Idiotic...

I said this before...if Joe's defense gave up 41 points the way Brady's did he would've been 1-3 in SBs. Doesn't have quite the ring to it does it?

This. Not sure how that performance lowers his status. That is a lazy way to look at it.

Originally posted by genus49:
So Brady throws for 500 yards and 3 TDs against one of the best defenses in the league as his defense can't get a single stop in the 2nd half against a backup QB and Brady get's knocked down a peg?

Idiotic...

I said this before...if Joe's defense gave up 41 points the way Brady's did he would've been 1-3 in SBs. Doesn't have quite the ring to it does it?

Brady had the ball in his hands with two minutes left and a chance to win the game against a defense that had been playing worse than his own and he coughed the ball up. Fact.

((I'm half-messing with you. I do think Brady is the GOAT, I just think it's cute how people for years have been saying how you play the rest of the game is irrelevant compared to whether or not you win the game when it counts, and now they want to change their tune and say Brady's fumble is meaningless because he threw for 500 yards ))

Originally posted by Fanaticofnfl:
Brady had the ball in his hands with two minutes left and a chance to win the game against a defense that had been playing worse than his own and he coughed the ball up. Fact.

((I'm half-messing with you. I do think Brady is the GOAT, I just think it's cute how people for years have been saying how you play the rest of the game is irrelevant compared to whether or not you win the game when it counts, and now they want to change their tune and say Brady's fumble is meaningless because he threw for 500 yards ))

It wasn't meaningless but you have to take the whole game into consideration.

In 2007 he led the Pats down the field and went up on the Giants and then watched Eli march down the field with the ridiculous Tyree catch where that play simply shouldn't have happened and he took the loss. His defense let him down at the end but at the same time for that potent of an offense scoring only 14 simply wasn't getting it done.

However this game he loses Cooks early in the 2nd quarter. He's playing a defense way better than his(i'm assuming you were joking when saying they were playing worse than the Pats D, not sure I've seen a D much worse than what the Pats were doing out there) and he led the Pats to 4 straight TD drives.

He had to do it 5th time in a row and the OL failed him. I have a hard time blaming any QB for that type of fumble given the situation.

Matt Ryan fumbling the ball away in last year's SB was brutal. His team had the lead he had one job there...not turn the ball over. Brady is down and needs to make plays to move the ball. He has to trust that his OL will give him time there.

It was a great play by Graham and a lucky bounce by the eagles where the ball went right to Barnett.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I guess it's settled then.

"Joe Montana is officially back in the spot of the greatest QB of all time. He is the GOAT -- 4-0, 11 TDs, 0 INTs, 3 MVPs... With this loss now, Brady is out of the conversation." — @RobParkerFS1 pic.twitter.com/I0GkpZKvGU

— UNDISPUTED (@undisputed) February 6, 2018

So Brady throws for 500 yards and 3 TDs against one of the best defenses in the league as his defense can't get a single stop in the 2nd half against a backup QB and Brady get's knocked down a peg?

Idiotic...

I said this before...if Joe's defense gave up 41 points the way Brady's did he would've been 1-3 in SBs. Doesn't have quite the ring to it does it?

This. Not sure how that performance lowers his status. That is a lazy way to look at it.

How do you like to grade your defenses? While I like both yards and points for offense, I'm more of just a Points allowed for defense. Bend but don't breaks defense are a thing and can be quite successful. Both Joe and Tom have benefited greatly from defenses based on points allowed.

JOE
1981 2nd Points allowed
1984 1st pts allowed
1988 8th pts allowed
1989 3rd pts allowed

TOM
2001 6th pts allowed
2003 1st pts allowed
2004 2nd pts allowed
2007 4th pts allowed
2011 15th pts allowed
2014 8th pts allowed
2016 1st pts allowed
2017 5th pts allowed

Brady had lost with defense ranked 4th, 15th and 5th.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Does anyone know how many of the teams Joe lost to in the playoffs went on to win the Superbowl. I'd be curious.

3 (83 Skins and 86/90 Giants)

83 Skins lost to the raiders. Skins won in 82

Yup you are right

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I guess it's settled then.

"Joe Montana is officially back in the spot of the greatest QB of all time. He is the GOAT -- 4-0, 11 TDs, 0 INTs, 3 MVPs... With this loss now, Brady is out of the conversation." — @RobParkerFS1 pic.twitter.com/I0GkpZKvGU

— UNDISPUTED (@undisputed) February 6, 2018

So Brady throws for 500 yards and 3 TDs against one of the best defenses in the league as his defense can't get a single stop in the 2nd half against a backup QB and Brady get's knocked down a peg?

Idiotic...

I said this before...if Joe's defense gave up 41 points the way Brady's did he would've been 1-3 in SBs. Doesn't have quite the ring to it does it?

This. Not sure how that performance lowers his status. That is a lazy way to look at it.

Wut..so you're saying theoretically if the 49ers gave up 41 points in those Super Bowls but their offensive output remained the same they'd lose? C'mon man! Hahahahaha.

Originally posted by Niners816:
How do you like to grade your defenses? While I like both yards and points for offense, I'm more of just a Points allowed for defense. Bend but don't breaks defense are a thing and can be quite successful. Both Joe and Tom have benefited greatly from defenses based on points allowed.

JOE
1981 2nd Points allowed
1984 1st pts allowed
1988 8th pts allowed
1989 3rd pts allowed

TOM
2001 6th pts allowed
2003 1st pts allowed
2004 2nd pts allowed
2007 4th pts allowed
2011 15th pts allowed
2014 8th pts allowed
2016 1st pts allowed
2017 5th pts allowed

Brady had lost with defense ranked 4th, 15th and 5th.

First of all I'm sure you know the NFL ranks defense by yards allowed stat.

I look at both.

Look at the final 4 defenses in the NFL playoffs this year. One clearly doesn't belong.

You had Vikings who were #1 in points and yards allowed.
You had the Jags who were #2 in points and yards allowed
You had the Eagles who were #4 in points and yards allowed
You had the Patriots who were #5 in points and....#29 in yards allowed.

Something doesn't compute there.

Joe never had a defense in the SB who wasn't top 10 in either category.

Also the Pats D in 2007 was horribly overrated. I was telling my friends who are all pats fans all year that season that the defense was crap and was going to bite them in the ass. It did.

I was saying the same thing this year and to be fair the 2007 defense was WAY better than this one.

The whole bend but don't break defense is another way of saying lucky. Well luck runs out eventually. You can only have so many offenses make bonehead mistakes or luck out on weird catch rules.

There are pros and cons to considering how good a defense is based on just points allowed
Pro - at the end of the day it's points that win games
Cons - defensive TDs by the other team count against points allowed, so do special team TDs. Turnovers by the other team give defenses short field to defend. If the team has a really good offense who doesn't come off the field much it only allows you to score so many points against them.

Same for yards allowed
Pro - if the other team can't get yards they typically can't score many points
Con - Yards don't win games.

That's why I look at both. A team who is top 10 in both categories typically shows a defense who can not only keep the other team from marching down the field but also keep them from scoring points.

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Wut..so you're saying theoretically if the 49ers gave up 41 points in those Super Bowls but their offensive output remained the same they'd lose? C'mon man! Hahahahaha.

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's called putting things into perspective.

Going 4-0 is much easier when your defense averages giving up 16 points per game.

This is a Niner board. If you don't think Joe Montana is the GOAT...






...j/k