Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Jcool:
Based on your arguments i find that hard to believe.

So because I'm not a blind homer I can't love a player for the team I love? Gotcha...

Wow are you saying the arguments in favor of Montana are BS? Lulz -- if so then that's the definition of blind homerism. TB12 is gone. Just one more to go...

Originally posted by genus49:
If you can't get there you can't win it. Simple as that.

5 > 4

Losing earlier in the playoffs is still losing.

Is Joe Flacco a better QB than Dan Marino?

Soon as Brady won that 5th SB he took that step from being 1A/1B to #1 and Joe is #2.

Hopefully when it's all said and done and 20+ years form now Jimmy G is the clear #1 above Brady.

Joe won the SB 40% of the time.
Tom has won it 31% of the time.

Originally posted by babarvaart:

Originally posted by genus49:

If you can't get there you can't win it. Simple as that.

5 > 4

Losing earlier in the playoffs is still losing.

Is Joe Flacco a better QB than Dan Marino?

Soon as Brady won that 5th SB he took that step from being 1A/1B to #1 and Joe is #2.

Hopefully when it's all said and done and 20+ years form now Jimmy G is the clear #1 above Brady.

Joe won the SB 40% of the time.
Tom has won it 31% of the time.

Whatever gets thrown to him,

he is not going to understand.

Originally posted by Constantine:
You know your doing something right when you can attract Patriots fans in a 49er forum

I think a big factor in getting Pats fans here is Jimmy GQ. I think in a year or two they will feel really bad Bellicheat traded Jimmy instead of Tom to us.

Originally posted by English:
And. Gone!

Heh, Tuberculosis 12 would still be here if s/he minded the p's and q's and be respectful. Too bad. I go to the Pats and the Seadderall boards all the time and I wouldn't do what s/he did here. It's just downright rude to behave that way on other fan-forums in my opinion.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Constantine:

You know your doing something right when you can attract Patriots fans in a 49er forum

I think a big factor in getting Pats fans here is Jimmy GQ. I think in a year or two they will feel really bad Bellicheat traded Jimmy instead of Tom to us.

I still think Brady made Bellicheat trade Jimmy so he won't get dethroned because it would hurt his legacy

Originally posted by babarvaart:

Originally posted by genus49:
If you can't get there you can't win it. Simple as that.

5 > 4

Losing earlier in the playoffs is still losing.

Is Joe Flacco a better QB than Dan Marino?

Soon as Brady won that 5th SB he took that step from being 1A/1B to #1 and Joe is #2.

Hopefully when it's all said and done and 20+ years form now Jimmy G is the clear #1 above Brady.

Joe won the SB 40% of the time.
Tom has won it 31% of the time.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by English:

And. Gone!

Heh, Tuberculosis 12 would still be here if s/he minded the p's and q's and be respectful. Too bad. I go to the Pats and the Seadderall boards all the time and I wouldn't do what s/he did here. It's just downright rude to behave that way on other fan-forums in my opinion.

Don't look now but we may have another one here

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

If baseball went to aluminum bats and some guy hit 900 home runs does everyone then become convinced that he is the best home run hitter ever?

That's basically what all these offensive rule changes have equated to. There is a reason Jeff Hostetler didn't come off the bench for 370 yards and 3 tds in the Super Bowl.

What does that have to do with Tom having 5 rings? Notice no one is bringing up their stats.

When it comes to stats you just want to compare each to their own era but rings you got 1 winner every year.

Originally posted by LVJay:

You're saying "he can't do that" because you actually seen him (Joe) try to do that in this era

You like living in a fantasy because obviously you have a crystal ball and seen what it would be like had Joe played in this era

Here, dude, just fantasize on Aldo Nova in his tights since you love making up things that ONLY fit your fantasy world

What are you talking about? I never said Joe couldn't play in this era. Just he wouldn't win 10 rings blind folded because at some point he'd run into an equally hot qb that our d couldn't stop. Try again.

Just because I brought up obstacles today's guys face doesn't mean I'm saying Joe would be Cody Kessler.

Originally posted by robniner:

Defenses and no cap makes the difference between the two eras.

The cap is a red herring.

In the 1980s you had two avenues to improve your teams: draft and trades. If you missed on the draft you were toast. Yes, you could use "all the money" to sign your guys but if your guys sucked it didn't matter.

Now you have three avenues to improve your team: draft, trades, and free agency. Look at the free agents that the Pats have signed - it's a significant component to their success. You can literally cherry pick great talent, rent it for a couple of years, and jettison it. That simply wasn't the case in 1984.

Defenses in the 1980s could: (a) hit the QB ... in the head; (b) hold WRs past line of scrimmage. The Giants and Bears in the 1980s had multiple seasons when they gave up fewer than 250 points. It is simply easier to play QB now than it was back then. Guys like Stafford and Rivers can throw for 4,000 yards and 30 TDs with regularity. A season like that in the 1980s was unheard of (except Marino).

But leaving that aside, the most significant difference between Joe and Tom is the 6 additional playing years Tom has had. I doubt Joe would have gone to the SB 4 or 5 times in those 6 years given the competition, but on the flip side given the team's success rate in that era it isn't out of the realm of reason to think he would have made it to two more. Taking Joe's 10 years versus Brady's first 10 playing years (2001-2007, 2009-2011), Joe was 4-0, Brady was 3-2.

You play with the time you're given. But the rules now have allowed Brady - and many others - to play the position in relative health well into their late 30s. I doubt Montana would have issues playing today. He would still be really good - and his stats would be considerably better than they were in the 1980s.

Originally posted by midrdan:

The cap is a red herring.

In the 1980s you had two avenues to improve your teams: draft and trades. If you missed on the draft you were toast. Yes, you could use "all the money" to sign your guys but if your guys sucked it didn't matter.

Now you have three avenues to improve your team: draft, trades, and free agency. Look at the free agents that the Pats have signed - it's a significant component to their success. You can literally cherry pick great talent, rent it for a couple of years, and jettison it. That simply wasn't the case in 1984.

Defenses in the 1980s could: (a) hit the QB ... in the head; (b) hold WRs past line of scrimmage. The Giants and Bears in the 1980s had multiple seasons when they gave up fewer than 250 points. It is simply easier to play QB now than it was back then. Guys like Stafford and Rivers can throw for 4,000 yards and 30 TDs with regularity. A season like that in the 1980s was unheard of (except Marino).

But leaving that aside, the most significant difference between Joe and Tom is the 6 additional playing years Tom has had. I doubt Joe would have gone to the SB 4 or 5 times in those 6 years given the competition, but on the flip side given the team's success rate in that era it isn't out of the realm of reason to think he would have made it to two more. Taking Joe's 10 years versus Brady's first 10 playing years (2001-2007, 2009-2011), Joe was 4-0, Brady was 3-2.

You play with the time you're given. But the rules now have allowed Brady - and many others - to play the position in relative health well into their late 30s. I doubt Montana would have issues playing today. He would still be really good - and his stats would be considerably better than they were in the 1980s.

You also lose players in the cap. NE lost a 17 sack guy in Chandler Jones. You think that made a difference?

It's a pretty much a fact that teams are not as good as they use to be in the 80's. Just look at the offensive, defensive rankings of the teams winning it all. In today's NFL teams have won with just a good defensive line and that's about it. With the cap it's nearly impossible to have a complete team like we had. You just can't keep the talent.

I do agree with the playing time point though. Had Joe played with softer rules he'd be healthier in some of his downs years/ lasted longer but it is what is there.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

What does that have to do with Tom having 5 rings? Notice no one is bringing up their stats.

When it comes to stats you just want to compare each to their own era but rings you got 1 winner every year.

Because not every Super Bowl championship is equal. If you are playing in an era with inferior teams brought upon by rule changes the difficulty of said title now changes.

How can you even debate the best team ever if every sb championship is equal?

I don't think a team accomplishment should be the be all end all to begin with. It's why Bill Russell isn't the best nba player ever and why Yogi Berra isn't the best baseball player ever.

And just for comparison:

Brady's first 10 years (playoffs):

16-6, 3 titles, 38 TDs, 20 INTs, 63.6% completion, 89.42 QBR.

Montana's 10 Years (playoffs):

16-6, 4 titles, 45 TDs, 21 INTs, 62.67% completion, 95.6 QBR.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
What does that have to do with Tom having 5 rings? Notice no one is bringing up their stats.

When it comes to stats you just want to compare each to their own era but rings you got 1 winner every year.

Because not every Super Bowl championship is equal. If you are playing in an era with inferior teams brought upon by rule changes the difficulty of said title now changes.

How can you even debate the best team ever if every sb championship is equal?

I don't think a team accomplishment should be the be all end all to begin with. It's why Bill Russell isn't the best nba player ever and why Yogi Berra isn't the best baseball player ever.

lol what