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Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I don't think they ever cheated the way Tom did, though.
Rodgers admitted to over inflating his balls, Jerry Rice admitted to using stickum..are they all cheaters as well?
Except those guys admitted it. Brady just continues to stick with his lie. Then breaking his phone to cover his tracks. That's my main issue with him and the Pats
Originally posted by midrdan:
It is hard to compare eras and Montana has played fewer years than Brady has played [Montana played 15 years, but '80 he didn't start, '82 was a strike, '86 he broke his back, '91-'92 he was injured and Young took over; Brady has played 18 years but didn't start in '00 and in '08 was injured]. So call it 10 seasons for Montana versus 16 for Brady.
In those 10 seasons Montana won the SB 4 times - 40%
In Brady's 16 seasons he won 5 times - 31%.
Both impressive.
But the caliber of opponents during their years is significant. Consider, from 1981 to 1990 the Redskins Giants and Bears won a combined 5 SBs [Washington won another in 1991]. Their combined winning percentage that decade was 65%. Those three teams each averaged 10.5 wins per year for the decade. They were good - 12 hall of famers from those teams.
The 49ers won 4 SBs in that era. They beat all three of those teams in the playoffs. They lost to Washington and Giants as well. The point is the 1980s was a decade where 4 amazing teams won 9 of 10 SBs and Joe's team won the most.
The NFC West was not horrible during this decade either. The combined winning percentage of the Rams, Saints and Falcons was 47%. Not amazing. But those teams played 60 games against the 49ers that decade. Their winning percentage against the 49ers was 27%; against the rest of the league the rest of the division was over .500. For the decade.
In comparison, since 2001 the Bills, Jets and Dolphins have won a combined 43% of their games. Taking out their abysmal win percentage against the Pats during this time, the division is still well below .500 against the rest of the league for the past 17 years. They have been consistently bad.
Likewise the three most successful teams during the past 17 years in the AFC aside from the Pats are the Colts, Broncos and Steelers. Their win percentage during Brady's run is 61%
In both cases, the main competitors and the divisions were comparatively more competitive in Montana's era than in Brady's.
A lot has been said about it being harder to win in the salary cap era. That the 49ers just put together a stacked team in 1981 and rolled for a decade. Not so. Of the players that won in 1981, only 5 were with the team in 1989. Aside from Fred Dean, who they traded for, I can't recall a single "big name" the Team signed in the 1980s. It was built through the draft and basically the entire team other than Lott and Montana was turned over from 1981 to 1988-1989.
Conversely, the Patriots have signed or traded for: Moss, Welker, Amendola, Rodney Harrison, Seau, Revis, Vrabel, Dion Lewis, Ninkovich, Branch, Boddin, Chung, Cooks... the era allows teams to plug holes. People want to play for a winner. The Pats draw talent.
The point is neither QB just rolled with the same team. Montana won SBs with different teams - different backfields, O-lines, WRs, and defenses. Same as Brady.
No one should question Brady's greatness. He's awesome. But to suggest that the 49ers benefitted from weak competition or that it is harder to win in this era is preposterous. The best teams since the cap - Pats, Broncos, Steelers and Colts have been the best teams for 17 years. The cap hasn't changed that.
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Lets get this done once and for all.. this is the way I see it.. all the QBs that I saw since I started watching football in 1981... My personal Ranking..
QB FOR BIGGEST GAME = JOE MONTANA
BEST PASSER = DAN MARINO
QB WHO CAN PLAY W/O A COACH: PEYTON MANNING
QB WHO CAN WIN WITH ANY OFFENSE: TOM BRADY
ALL TYPE OF WEATHER QB: JOHN ELWAY
what about all those playoff games he lost?
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Lets get this done once and for all.. this is the way I see it.. all the QBs that I saw since I started watching football in 1981... My personal Ranking..
QB FOR BIGGEST GAME = JOE MONTANA
BEST PASSER = DAN MARINO
QB WHO CAN PLAY W/O A COACH: PEYTON MANNING
QB WHO CAN WIN WITH ANY OFFENSE: TOM BRADY
ALL TYPE OF WEATHER QB: JOHN ELWAY
Just one small correction: Elway with Terrell Davis. Without him Elway's record looks rather different.
Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by Giedi:
*I* Question Brady's greatness. I wonder how his cheating record will go over when he's eligible for the Hall of Fame. I hear Pete Rose is still outside looking. in.
Brady is both a great QB and a cheater, who was caught and suspended. The Patriots have been caught cheating multiple times. And punished for it. It's a taint ... and one of the reasons why I think Brady can never be the GOAT.
Originally posted by TheGore49er:Originally posted by Hoovtrain:Originally posted by DonnieDarko:Originally posted by Giedi:I don't think they ever cheated the way Tom did, though.
Rodgers admitted to over inflating his balls, Jerry Rice admitted to using stickum..are they all cheaters as well?
Except those guys admitted it. Brady just continues to stick with his lie. Then breaking his phone to cover his tracks. That's my main issue with him and the Pats
So if you admit to cheating you're not cheating? Okay...
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:Did I say that? I said the fact they stuck with the lie was what I took issue with
Originally posted by midrdan:Originally posted by Hoovtrain:Did I say that? I said the fact they stuck with the lie was what I took issue with
I think that was why Sonny Weaver Jr. decided to not draft Bo Callahan.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:Originally posted by midrdan:Originally posted by SanDiego49er:This is so dumb. Are people still trying to grasp for straws to hang onto this one?.....
5 > 4. Winning 5 Super Bowls is better than winning 4. Period.
Getting to 8 > getting to 4. Yes getting to a Super Bowl is hard. Yes it counts getting there too. Why is the guy who can't get to 8 better than the guy who did get to 8? It makes no sense at all. It's not even logical.
Who is greater, Bill Russell or Michael Jordan?
Who is greater, Mark Messier or Wayne Gretzky?
Who is greater, Paul O'Neill or Ken Griffey, Jr.?
"Getting there" is not dispositive of who is greater.
Absolutely 100% sure getting to 8 is better than getting to 4. Plus he WON 5. Winning 5 is better than winning 4. No question about it at all. It's not even in debate.
Originally posted by midrdan:
Who is greater, Bill Russell or Michael Jordan?
Who is greater, Mark Messier or Wayne Gretzky?
Who is greater, Paul O'Neill or Ken Griffey, Jr.?
"Getting there" is not dispositive of who is greater.
Originally posted by tjd808185:Postseason success is Joe's strongest argument too so you might want to watch out with that. If you're looking for Jordan statistical dominance neither Tom or Joe tops the list of their era.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Postseason success is Joe's strongest argument too so you might want to watch out with that. If you're looking for Jordan statistical dominance neither Tom or Joe tops the list of their era.
Playing the best at the biggest times against the best competition. That's how I look at it.
Originally posted by LVJay:Originally posted by 9ers4eva:Originally posted by tjd808185:Postseason success is Joe's strongest argument too so you might want to watch out with that. If you're looking for Jordan statistical dominance neither Tom or Joe tops the list of their era.
Playing the best at the biggest times against the best competition. That's how I look at it.
That's exactly how the great ones see it... Brady is great... he was a pissed off loser as he stormed off the field without a handshake / congrats to anyone. Even their lord Brady knows that your comment is all that matters. No one cares about the loser. His SB record is TARNISHED (with cheats and losses)
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by LVJay:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Postseason success is Joe's strongest argument too so you might want to watch out with that. If you're looking for Jordan statistical dominance neither Tom or Joe tops the list of their era.
Playing the best at the biggest times against the best competition. That's how I look at it.
That's exactly how the great ones see it... Brady is great... he was a pissed off loser as he stormed off the field without a handshake / congrats to anyone. Even their lord Brady knows that your comment is all that matters. No one cares about the loser. His SB record is TARNISHED (with cheats and losses)
Dissing Foles was classless.
