Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by crake49:
I'd like to take the time to apologize to theDuke85 for calling him a 'Brady nut-hugger' yesterday. I thought he had called me a homer for arguing in favor of Montana over Brady, but it was another poster.

Again, I'd like to say that I really like Brady and have been a fan of his for his entire career. I know everyone says this these days, but back in real time, I really wanted them to draft the local kid and I thought they were going to until they took fricking Geo Caramazzi and I slapped my head so hard I gave myself a headache.

When the Patriots got the ball back towards the end of the last Super Bowl, I said to my wife, 'If he moves the ball down the field here and takes the lead, he absolutely deserves to be in the conversation for the best ever.' He did and he does. That's how I feel about Tom Brady. He's in the conversation as the best ever. But, the bottom line is that I've never seen someone play the position quite as well as Joe Montana.

I like your argument and it's well thought out, but Joe Montana was never suspended for cheating, and there are no asterisks next to his records.

Originally posted by xtm059:
I like your argument and it's well thought out, but Joe Montana was never suspended for cheating, and there are no asterisks next to his records.

Thank you and good point.

Originally posted by xtm059:

Originally posted by crake49:

I'd like to take the time to apologize to theDuke85 for calling him a 'Brady nut-hugger' yesterday. I thought he had called me a homer for arguing in favor of Montana over Brady, but it was another poster.

Again, I'd like to say that I really like Brady and have been a fan of his for his entire career. I know everyone says this these days, but back in real time, I really wanted them to draft the local kid and I thought they were going to until they took fricking Geo Caramazzi and I slapped my head so hard I gave myself a headache.

When the Patriots got the ball back towards the end of the last Super Bowl, I said to my wife, 'If he moves the ball down the field here and takes the lead, he absolutely deserves to be in the conversation for the best ever.' He did and he does. That's how I feel about Tom Brady. He's in the conversation as the best ever. But, the bottom line is that I've never seen someone play the position quite as well as Joe Montana.

I like your argument and it's well thought out, but Joe Montana was never suspended for cheating, and there are no asterisks next to his records.

Joe Montana had WAY MORE talent around him

Originally posted by crake49:

Thank you and good point.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by xtm059:

I like your argument and it's well thought out, but Joe Montana was never suspended for cheating, and there are no asterisks next to his records.

Thank you and good point.

Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
Joe Montana had WAY MORE talent around him

That's myopic. The system made Joe and Joe made the system. The fact that Joe was the progression king meant Bill could stick with his designs longer in games. That kept defenses from overplaying personnel or cheating on a look.if they did Joe would eventually break it down. Kept the defenses defensive. Result = 4 super bowls.

Stop making it sound like Joe was the beneficiary of hall of fame rosters. That's bradshaw, to a certain degree staubach, stabler. Those guys had hall of famers up and down the line.

Joe won his first super bowl handing off to lenvill eliot ricky patton earl cooper and throwing to an arthritic freddie solomon and charlie young.

ok?

So stop talking about all the talent that carried joe throughout his career. I don't think you saw him play either.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
Joe Montana had WAY MORE talent around him

That's myopic. The system made Joe and Joe made the system. The fact that Joe was the progression king meant Bill could stick with his designs longer in games. That kept defenses from overplaying personnel or cheating on a look.if they did Joe would eventually break it down. Kept the defenses defensive. Result = 4 super bowls.

Stop making it sound like Joe was the beneficiary of hall of fame rosters. That's bradshaw, to a certain degree staubach, stabler. Those guys had hall of famers up and down the line.

Joe won his first super bowl handing off to lenvill eliot ricky patton earl cooper and throwing to an arthritic freddie solomon and charlie young.

ok?

So stop talking about all the talent that carried joe throughout his career. I don't think you saw him play either.

Thank you! I have pulled out my hair trying to explain this the post-Montana generation. Plus people need to remember Rice, Taylor, and B. Jones were not on the team when the Niners won their second ring.

Excellent point. The skill line up was Tyler, Craig, Solomon, post-knee Clark, Francis.

Better, but only Craig / Clarke could be considered elite. Clarke definitely not his pre-knee genius. Francis on the downside of his career.

I wouldn't say that line up was a lock to win the super bowl by any means.

How did we score 38 points?

Hmm......

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Excellent point. The skill line up was Tyler, Craig, Solomon, post-knee Clark, Francis.

Better, but only Craig / Clarke could be considered elite. Clarke definitely not his pre-knee genius. Francis on the downside of his career.

I wouldn't say that line up was a lock to win the super bowl by any means.

How did we score 38 points?

Hmm......

People always show their age in this discussion. 'Well, Montana was throwing to Rice and Taylor." Eh, no, he wasn't, at least not for those first two championships. His receiving corps for their first championship was Freddie Solomon, Dwight Clark, Mike Wilson and Mike Shuman coming off the bench.

Originally posted by insanemike27:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by WINiner:
The fact that coool Joe never relied on his kicker to win the game for any of his SB's had already decided the debate in my mind.

Or the fact he never lost one either...

especially to a scrub like Eli, x2.

This pretty much sums it up. The debate ended when Brady lost that FIRST super Bowl. Anyone who argues otherwise is either a NE fan or just likes to hear themselves talk. Even Brady himself said something to the effect of: "[If Joe Montana played with the rules we have today he would have won 10 Super Bowls]"

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

That's myopic. The system made Joe and Joe made the system. The fact that Joe was the progression king meant Bill could stick with his designs longer in games. That kept defenses from overplaying personnel or cheating on a look.if they did Joe would eventually break it down. Kept the defenses defensive. Result = 4 super bowls.

Stop making it sound like Joe was the beneficiary of hall of fame rosters. That's bradshaw, to a certain degree staubach, stabler. Those guys had hall of famers up and down the line.

Joe won his first super bowl handing off to lenvill eliot ricky patton earl cooper and throwing to an arthritic freddie solomon and charlie young.

ok?

So stop talking about all the talent that carried joe throughout his career. I don't think you saw him play either.

I agree... Joe was cluth player with grid iron football. I know football has changed and Bill Walsh is the four front of everthing but Montana delivered it. What he did in his time was greater and wasnt blamed for breaking rules.... Patroits have had this issue since 2002 and in a few years it might spring back.

What are you guys thoughts on that Pats writer Tom Curran? If you ever seen Top 10 clutch QB's of all time on NFL Network when he threw a fit about Montana being #1 all time over Brady. Then you know he has been advocating the Brady>Montana notion for quite awhile. Don't think he changed his stance since this whole thing broke.

No one knows who goat is all time at qb due to different rules different eras. Montana is greatest post rozelle. as far as 70s go, its tough. Roger maybe, then joe. I think its quite interesting they were both mobile qbs with impovisational talent. Sound like brady? I hate roger staubach more than any other human being. But thats because he was inevitable.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
No one knows who goat is all time at qb due to different rules different eras. Montana is greatest post rozelle. as far as 70s go, its tough. Roger maybe, then joe. I think its quite interesting they were both mobile qbs with impovisational talent. Sound like brady? I hate roger staubach more than any other human being. But thats because he was inevitable.

What about Marino? He was putting up video game numbers in that era. Could Montana have done the same thing if he was in Miami? IMO, Marino has the greatest arm in the history of QBs, and it's not even close.

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:
What about Marino? He was putting up video game numbers in that era. Could Montana have done the same thing if he was in Miami? IMO, Marino has the greatest arm in the history of QBs, and it's not even close.

Marino was a great QB. He just had the misfortune of having to face that Niners '84 defense in his only Super Bowl. That team was one of the best in NFL history and was basically one very questionable call away from 19-0.