Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Smaller windows?

The funny thing is you posted a perfectly legal hit...by the best safety to play in the game.

AND it had nothing to do with a window being tight.

And yes smaller windows...do I really have to break it down for you? Faster, bigger players = smaller windows. Look at the Jags game and check how fast those guys were breaking on the ball. There were several throws I thought for sure were picks and Jimmy stuck them in there. I think the Jags thought that too because they started losing their damn minds in that game.

Very rarely is there an undisputed GOAT in any sport and this is no exception. Roger Federer is about the only 1 I can think of as he's so obviously ahead of anyone else.

Joe won 4
Tom won 5 but played 60% longer.

take your pick.

Originally posted by babarvaart:
Very rarely is there an undisputed GOAT in any sport and this is no exception. Roger Federer is about the only 1 I can think of as he's so obviously ahead of anyone else.

Joe won 4
Tom won 5 but played 60% longer.

take your pick.

You don't think you're leaving out a few things?

Like the whole salary cap situation? But let's forget about that for a second and just use your logic for ranking the best.

Terry Bradshaw won 4 in 6 years
Joe won 4 in 9 years

Bradshaw must be better right?

Originally posted by genus49:
You don't think you're leaving out a few things?

Like the whole salary cap situation? But let's forget about that for a second and just use your logic for ranking the best.

Terry Bradshaw won 4 in 6 years
Joe won 4 in 9 years

Bradshaw must be better right?

Bradshaw played longer than 6 years.

In terms of probability Joe was more likely than Tom to win the SB in any given year.

There is no way to factor in salary cap, rule changes, physical changes. What metrics do you use ?

That's why its a personal thing.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Smaller windows?

The funny thing is you posted a perfectly legal hit...by the best safety to play in the game.

AND it had nothing to do with a window being tight.

And yes smaller windows...do I really have to break it down for you? Faster, bigger players = smaller windows. Look at the Jags game and check how fast those guys were breaking on the ball. There were several throws I thought for sure were picks and Jimmy stuck them in there. I think the Jags thought that too because they started losing their damn minds in that game.

I disagree...
My point is that the rules have changed, no bumping and the line, less contact down field and no devastating hits as the ball arrives.
Dbs are not bigger and not much faster and even if they are a little faster or bigger, so are receivers.
Dbs broke on the ball quicker when the rules allowed more contact.

Joe Montana was awesome. He was also very lucky. It's better to be lucky than good as they say.

I re watched the entire NFCCG vs the Cowboys last week. The 49ers were 1 tackle away from never winning a SB.

Montana threw 3 int's vs the Cowboys in the NFCCG the team had SIX turnovers. It took a crazy play like The Catch to tie the game and Ray's PAT to go ahead. Dallas would have scored a walk off TD had Wright not horse collar tackled the WR with 20 seconds left in the game. Then Danny White was sacked and fumbled to end the game.

If Wright doesn't make that game saving tackle the Cowboys win.

In 1982 the 49ers only win 3 games because of the player strike.

In 1983 they lose to Washington in the NFFCG.

Bill Walsh is fired and the 49ers never win a SB.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by babarvaart:

Very rarely is there an undisputed GOAT in any sport and this is no exception. Roger Federer is about the only 1 I can think of as he's so obviously ahead of anyone else.

Joe won 4
Tom won 5 but played 60% longer.

take your pick.

You don't think you're leaving out a few things?

Like the whole salary cap situation? But let's forget about that for a second and just use your logic for ranking the best.

Terry Bradshaw won 4 in 6 years
Joe won 4 in 9 years

Bradshaw must be better right?

Wow dude you really cant let this go can you?

Why on earth do you want to continue to argue points that have already been argued a zillion times?

I gurantee if you go and voice your opinion on the Pats board's thread of "Brady is the GOAT" youll be well loved and admired.

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Wow dude you really cant let this go can you?

Why on earth do you want to continue to argue points that have already been argued a zillion times?

I gurantee if you go and voice your opinion on the Pats board's thread of "Brady is the GOAT" youll be well loved and admired.

Pretty sure I didn't bump this thread. I come to these message boards to talk about football and the 49ers. Just because this is a 49ers board doesn't mean we should all be blind homers.

I'm not doing anything but stating facts and pointing out the hypocrisy that's riddled all over this thread.

This whole thread is basically insecurity driven. If you want to believe that Joe is the best ever that's fine but me pointing out flaws and hypocrisy in people's reasons as to why that's the case is allowed unless I missed the "you shall not post truths if they don't make 49ers look great"

But if you want to point out anything I said that's wrong feel free to do so.

Originally posted by babarvaart:
Bradshaw played longer than 6 years.

In terms of probability Joe was more likely than Tom to win the SB in any given year.

There is no way to factor in salary cap, rule changes, physical changes. What metrics do you use ?

That's why its a personal thing.

That's great but your post was pretty cut and dry. Joe won 4 in a shorter amount of time than Brady won 5.

I just posted that it took another QB less years to get 4 wins and that QB is not considered the greatest ever or even close to it.

Bradshaw did it with the same rules as Joe and he did it in less time. I agree there isn't one way of analyzing everything which is why I've said several times we should judge the players among their peers/eras.

Joe won 4. Bradshaw also won 4 pretty much the same era.

Brady won 5, went to 8. The closest QB(s) in the same era had 2 wins I believe and Manning had 4 trips. There is a CLEAR gap between Brady and the other QBs during the salary cap era.

And I get your point but I don't think it's entirely accurate. You can't win the SB if you're not IN the Superbowl.

Brady went to the SB 8 times during his 16 years as a starter. That's 50% of the time he has a chance to win a Lombardi.
Joe went to the SB 4 times during his 10 years as starter with the niners and 0 times with 2 years as starter with KC. That's 40% of the time he has a chance to win a Lombardi.

And in the salary cap era when teams change all the time and it's so difficult to field your best players together for consistency the 8 trips with 5 wins is crazy.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Arsenal2004:
Going to multiple Championship games and not losing isn't easy. 4-0>5-3.

Remind me what happened those other times Joe didn't win the SB?

Here are some facts for you

4-0 has been done twice
5-3 has been done once

Is Terry Bradshaw on the same level as Joe Montana now?

And it's easier when your team is dominant all around.

5-0 has been done by only one person. Hall of Famer Charles Haley. Get another excuse for Brady. Montana also never got shut down in the Super Bowl like Brady. He always scored at least 20.

Originally posted by babarvaart:
Very rarely is there an undisputed GOAT in any sport and this is no exception. Roger Federer is about the only 1 I can think of as he's so obviously ahead of anyone else.

Joe won 4
Tom won 5 but played 60% longer.

take your pick.

Federer isn't definitely better than Rafael Nadal. He has more majors but Nadal was able to beat him in the final on his best surface which Federer wasn't able to do to Nadal. If we add females to the argument Serena Williams is better than Federer with more longevity and more majors.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by babarvaart:
Bradshaw played longer than 6 years.

In terms of probability Joe was more likely than Tom to win the SB in any given year.

There is no way to factor in salary cap, rule changes, physical changes. What metrics do you use ?

That's why its a personal thing.

That's great but your post was pretty cut and dry. Joe won 4 in a shorter amount of time than Brady won 5.

I just posted that it took another QB less years to get 4 wins and that QB is not considered the greatest ever or even close to it.

Bradshaw did it with the same rules as Joe and he did it in less time. I agree there isn't one way of analyzing everything which is why I've said several times we should judge the players among their peers/eras.

Joe won 4. Bradshaw also won 4 pretty much the same era.

Brady won 5, went to 8. The closest QB(s) in the same era had 2 wins I believe and Manning had 4 trips. There is a CLEAR gap between Brady and the other QBs during the salary cap era.

And I get your point but I don't think it's entirely accurate. You can't win the SB if you're not IN the Superbowl.

Brady went to the SB 8 times during his 16 years as a starter. That's 50% of the time he has a chance to win a Lombardi.
Joe went to the SB 4 times during his 10 years as starter with the niners and 0 times with 2 years as starter with KC. That's 40% of the time he has a chance to win a Lombardi.

And in the salary cap era when teams change all the time and it's so difficult to field your best players together for consistency the 8 trips with 5 wins is crazy.

That's not a valid argument. In the 80's and early 90's it was actually harder to win because you had to have good coaching staffs and talent evaluators. If you didn't and made mistakes in the draft you were doomed to fail. The NFL is more watered down now especially in the AFC. The Patriots have a free ride to the AFC Championship every year because of the trash division they play in. Their schedule is also favorable on a yearly basis.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Wow dude you really cant let this go can you?

Why on earth do you want to continue to argue points that have already been argued a zillion times?

I gurantee if you go and voice your opinion on the Pats board's thread of "Brady is the GOAT" youll be well loved and admired.

Pretty sure I didn't bump this thread. I come to these message boards to talk about football and the 49ers. Just because this is a 49ers board doesn't mean we should all be blind homers.

I'm not doing anything but stating facts and pointing out the hypocrisy that's riddled all over this thread.

This whole thread is basically insecurity driven. If you want to believe that Joe is the best ever that's fine but me pointing out flaws and hypocrisy in people's reasons as to why that's the case is allowed unless I missed the "you shall not post truths if they don't make 49ers look great"

But if you want to point out anything I said that's wrong feel free to do so.

There you go -- you just can't let it go especially when you've been shut down multiple times. You really believe it's a one-way street with your opinion eh? Lulz.

Originally posted by genus49:
That's great but your post was pretty cut and dry. Joe won 4 in a shorter amount of time than Brady won 5.

I just posted that it took another QB less years to get 4 wins and that QB is not considered the greatest ever or even close to it.

Bradshaw did it with the same rules as Joe and he did it in less time. I agree there isn't one way of analyzing everything which is why I've said several times we should judge the players among their peers/eras.

Joe won 4. Bradshaw also won 4 pretty much the same era.

Brady won 5, went to 8. The closest QB(s) in the same era had 2 wins I believe and Manning had 4 trips. There is a CLEAR gap between Brady and the other QBs during the salary cap era.

And I get your point but I don't think it's entirely accurate. You can't win the SB if you're not IN the Superbowl.

Brady went to the SB 8 times during his 16 years as a starter. That's 50% of the time he has a chance to win a Lombardi.
Joe went to the SB 4 times during his 10 years as starter with the niners and 0 times with 2 years as starter with KC. That's 40% of the time he has a chance to win a Lombardi.

And in the salary cap era when teams change all the time and it's so difficult to field your best players together for consistency the 8 trips with 5 wins is crazy.

I know some won't agree but I don't care for losing finalists, in any sport. If you didn't win it than it doesn't matter, same for us in 2012, that SB is a stain on the franchise.

Brady has won 5 in 16 full years as a starter.
Montana has won 4 in 10 full years as a starter.

I'm not trashing Tom, he's awesome. But if I had to pick one to win me a game it would be Joe.

Originally posted by Arsenal2004:
Federer isn't definitely better than Rafael Nadal. He has more majors but Nadal was able to beat him in the final on his best surface which Federer wasn't able to do to Nadal. If we add females to the argument Serena Williams is better than Federer with more longevity and more majors.

haha, as the man with the orthopaedic leg said "I stand corrected"

But it's the eye test again, Federer plays sexy tennis.

And of course Federer or Nadal beat Williams so that point is moot