Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Not straws, the fact that the public (not just me) lumps Tom with Tonya and Lance says it all. It's the court of public opinion, not the court of law.

Just because the general public is stupid doesn't mean you have to join them.

The fact that ESPN had "Tom Brady destroys phone" as part of the major headline for deflategate should tell you all you need to know about the court of public opinion.

Not to mention their story was flat out false and they didn't remove it or admit it was erroneous until months later at like 2am.

Public opinion is all based on hearsay and big highlighted headlines. "Patriots fined for blah" "Tom Brady destroys phone" "Tom Brady suspended"

All those things are for people who don't understand or watch the game.

The fact that 49er fans listen to this garbage is mind blowing to me when we've seen first hand how ridiculous Roger Goodell is with his punishments which don't fit the crime and how he picks and chooses who gets the hammer. Remember our "tampering" with Lance Briggs? Remember the fine and draft picks we lost as a result when we didn't even sign the guy?

Want to look up what happened to the Jets when they were punished for tampering with Darrelle Revis...someone they actually signed?

Patriots didn't do anything other teams haven't done and they got BETTER after each "gate" so someone explain that to me how you can say with a straight face they were winning only because of the cheating?

I know this is a 49ers board and I love my team but I'm also a football fan and I've learned to respect the players no matter which team they play for. I used to hate Kurt Warner with a passion because I associated him with our collapse and the Rams coming out party back then but as I grew up I realized he's a really good guy and a great QB. I can't stand Richard Sherman for the most part but I respect the hell out of his game and would've loved to have him here before his injury last year.

It's not like saying Tom Brady is the greatest changes what Joe did for our franchise. We don't have to give those memories or Lombardis back. And if someone has to be the GOAT I'd rather it be at least a 49ers fan if not a 49er.

Nothing in your post discredits the *fact* that Tom cheated. It's just you *opinion* - I - on the other hand am stating *fact.*

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Brady lost int he SB and Joe didn't is a stone cold fact.
Brady cheated and his team cheated and those are stone cold facts.
What those things mean in evaluating their Legacies is subjective.

And people being subjective is very much dependent on whether or not they are being realistic or blind homers....

And btw Brady cheating is not a stone cold fact unless you're Roger Goodell.

Yep, saying 5-3 > 4-0 is subjective and saying 4-0 > 5-3 is also subjective.

Brady broke the rules with the football psi, that is cheating. The Pats broke the rules by spying on other teams, that is cheating. What that means to a person when considering Legacy is subjective.

Brady destroyed his phone to hide the proof and to protect himself. Goodell destroyed the Spygate tapes to hide the proof and to protect the NFL.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
If anyone disagrees with your opinion you dismiss them as "blind homers".

Not at all but "Brady cheated so he's not GOAT" is being a blind homer
"Brady lost in the SB, Joe didn't" is being a blind homer
and plenty more...

Brady lost int he SB and Joe didn't is a stone cold fact.
Brady cheated and his team cheated and those are stone cold facts.
What those things mean in evaluating their Legacies is subjective.

I agree with this statement.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Walsh and mcdaniel do the same thing scheme to fit the talent they have. Walsh would bring more kenny anderson to a brady led wco and mcdaniel would start putting more naked bootlegs and full field reads into the ne system with joe.

It would be an interesting question to ask which qb each guru would want to work with. I think walsh was pretty happy with the way joe ran his concepts. I bet mcd would also look for a qb with joes traits -- but of course the longevity issue is all brady.

I don't think there's any question Bill Walk >>>>>> McDaniels and I would hope we don't try to argue otherwise around here.

I'm sure the Pats would love to have more mobility out of Brady but it's not how that works. Brady is great for his abilities in the pocket and at 40 he moves around the pocket better than almost any QB in the game right now with guys 10-15 years younger than him.

And at the end of the day it's all about the play on the field.

Is there anyone here who can deny that Randy Moss is more TALENTED than Jerry Rice? But who was the better receiver?

And longevity is part of the game. Everyone is throwing out how much Joe got beat up in those days but he wasn't the only QB playing in the league. Dan Marino played in the same era and he didn't have the same injury situation. Just like in today's NFL not everyone stays healthy and durable the way Brady has. Look at Andrew Luck or Ben Roethlisberger.

The name is Bill Walsh not Walk. Don's disrespect the GOAT. It isn't widely agreed that Randy Moss is more talented than Jerry Rice either.

Originally posted by Arsenal2004:

The name is Bill Walsh not Walk. Don's disrespect the GOAT. It isn't widely agreed that Randy Moss is more talented than Jerry Rice either.

It's called autocorrect...

Originally posted by JimA49ers:

Brady destroyed his phone to hide the proof and to protect himself. Goodell destroyed the Spygate tapes to hide the proof and to protect the NFL.

Let me guess ESPN told you this so it must be true?

Fact is there was 0 proof that Brady wanted the balls set at the illlegal levels. Every single text or message they had with him mentioning ball levels it was within the legal level. They collected the records from everyone else involved and he provided them a copy of all the relevant texts and emails.

The NFL never asked for his phone and was provided everything they needed. Him destroying his phone like he did when getting new phones was a total "look over here" story to get public opinion against Brady. It's sad that it seemed to work so easily that people act like it's a fact he was busted for any cheating.

The Wells report was a joke and a total witch hunt. "He probably knew something" is not actually providing any proof. Brady wanting the balls at the lower level...but legal level is a preference. It's within the legal range but you measure the ball during the 2nd half of a cold wet game and laws of physics do play a factor. And even then the reports were BS. From ESPN saying a bunch of balls were well under the limit to saying the Colts player felt it was super low....he came out and said that never happened by the way.

If you look at the actual facts and use your head you'll see it was a complete overblown witch hunt by Goodell and one that's awful for the NFL. When he can pick and choose who and how he punishes them...it's not a good thing.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Nothing in your post discredits the *fact* that Tom cheated. It's just you *opinion* - I - on the other hand am stating *fact.*

Read my post above. Those are facts. Some silly poll with no reference to how many people and where were used for this public opinion means very little.

I'm sure since Jerry admitted he used stickum people shouldn't give him credit for being the GOAT WR?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Nothing in your post discredits the *fact* that Tom cheated. It's just you *opinion* - I - on the other hand am stating *fact.*

Read my post above. Those are facts. Some silly poll with no reference to how many people and where were used for this public opinion means very little.

I'm sure since Jerry admitted he used stickum people shouldn't give him credit for being the GOAT WR?

I coulda sworn the title of this thread was *Joe Montana* not "Jerry Rice." Also your post above was an *opinion* of the Wells report. Fact - Tom cheated and Tom even accepted his four game suspension punishment.

Originally posted by Giedi:

I coulda sworn the title of this thread was *Joe Montana* not "Jerry Rice." Also your post above was an *opinion* of the Wells report. Fact - Tom cheated and Tom even accepted his four game suspension punishment.

You want to be a sheep be a sheep I won't get in the way. Just don't get all huffy and puffy if someone doesn't agree with you.

And my post had nothing to do with opinions. It's what happened. If they found any proof of Brady asking for the footballs to be lower than the legal limits it would've been all over the news and written in the sky.

I'd bring up the Lance Briggs tampering and the Darrell Revis tampering and show you the obvious bias by Goodell in those decisions but you'd just ignore it and act like that has nothing to do with this thread..

Originally posted by SoCold:
Joe Montana was awesome. He was also very lucky. It's better to be lucky than good as they say.

I re watched the entire NFCCG vs the Cowboys last week. The 49ers were 1 tackle away from never winning a SB.

Montana threw 3 int's vs the Cowboys in the NFCCG the team had SIX turnovers. It took a crazy play like The Catch to tie the game and Ray's PAT to go ahead. Dallas would have scored a walk off TD had Wright not horse collar tackled the WR with 20 seconds left in the game. Then Danny White was sacked and fumbled to end the game.

If Wright doesn't make that game saving tackle the Cowboys win.

In 1982 the 49ers only win 3 games because of the player strike.

In 1983 they lose to Washington in the NFFCG.

Bill Walsh is fired and the 49ers never win a SB.

BB / TB / Patriots were one tuck rule (rule made up out of thin air) away from never winning anything of significance

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Giedi:

I coulda sworn the title of this thread was *Joe Montana* not "Jerry Rice." Also your post above was an *opinion* of the Wells report. Fact - Tom cheated and Tom even accepted his four game suspension punishment.

You want to be a sheep be a sheep I won't get in the way. Just don't get all huffy and puffy if someone doesn't agree with you.

And my post had nothing to do with opinions. It's what happened. If they found any proof of Brady asking for the footballs to be lower than the legal limits it would've been all over the news and written in the sky.

I'd bring up the Lance Briggs tampering and the Darrell Revis tampering and show you the obvious bias by Goodell in those decisions but you'd just ignore it and act like that has nothing to do with this thread..

That's the whole point though. Joe never needed deflate-gate or spy-gate to win games. Whereas cheaters aren't going to advertise that they cheated. Usually cheaters don't want anybody to know they cheated. Therefore they will do everything in their power to destroy evidence of cheating. That's just simple common sense. Tom got caught cheating. Most cheating violations aren't caught either, only a small portion are ever caught or detected. So that leaves the question out there about all the *other times* Tom was cheating and never caught.

Originally posted by Giedi:
That's the whole point though. Joe never needed deflate-gate or spy-gate to win games. Whereas cheaters aren't going to advertise that they cheated. Usually cheaters don't want anybody to know they cheated. Therefore they will do everything in their power to destroy evidence of cheating. That's just simple common sense. Tom got caught cheating. Most cheating violations aren't caught either, only a small portion are ever caught or detected. So that leaves the question out there about all the *other times* Tom was cheating and never caught.

Have you honestly completely ignored all of the "cheating" allegations from us over the years?

There were different times and things teams don't get away with these days would've been fine back in those days. There were reports of Joe doing coke...who knows what happens if the internet/twitter/camera phones and all that chit was around back then.

You think our OLmen putting silicone on their jerseys wasn't cheating or bending the rules? How about Parcells threatening Walsh with going to the league about the headsets constantly going out when they played us? These are just the things that were revealed.

If you want to act like it didn't happen because we weren't punished for it then that's pretty ignorant IMO. Not to mention we had salary cap violations and more than likely payed guys under the table long before the salary cap came into play.

Now if Brady was popped for steroids or something along those lines then I can understand tarnishing his legacy.

Spygate was something all the other teams were doing and after they were caught and punished for it their offense got BETTER. Think about that one for a second. They were recording DEFENSIVE signals to try to figure out what the defense would be doing in later games if those signals were unchanged(stupidity on the other team if so) and their offense got better after they were "caught"

And by caught it was Eric Mangini who basically complained about them because he couldn't find a way to beat them.

Deflate gate however was the biggest friggin joke ever. Brady didn't destroy his phone because he was hiding cheating. The NFL never requested his phone. They requested text and emails with relevant parties and they were provided everything they asked for. But Brady had his phone routinely destroyed because as a public figure he doesnt' want someone getting data off his phone for privacy reasons. He did this before and he's going to do it again.

Yet the NFL decided to have ESPN run with that headline because people cling to it without looking at the details. You're just proving my point with the whole "he did it because he's guilty" thing.

You ever notice what happens when these Wells reports happen? Basically the player who's being investigated has all their private chit out there for people to read. If I'm Tom Brady i'm sure as hell not trusting him after what happened with Richie Incognito. And what do you know...emails that had absolutely NOTHING to do with deflate gate were posted online including one where Brady had to apologize to Peyton Manning.

Honestly I can't take any NFL fan seriously if they support what happened with deflate gate. Not a single actual piece of proof that Brady asked to have the balls lowered to the illegal levels. Total witch hunt. If they wanted to worry about the integrity of the game like they claimed they would've measured those balls BEFORE the game started.

Instead they decided to wait til halftime...you know after the balls were used on the field during a cold wet game in January and then they made the measurements where at first it was "Almost every ball was well below the PSI limit"...then it changed to "A few balls were below the PSI limit"...then "One ball well below the limit that the Colts player intercepted and he could feel it"

Fast forward and that player said that never happened. And because of this ball violation the pats lost a first round pick, fined like crazy and Brady suspended for 4 games. And did you notice what happened after the Pats were "caught"? Way more points in the 2nd half and a SB win 2 weeks later. Another SB win a year after and incredibly close to winning a 3rd one in 4 years.

You seen how other teams were punished for ball violations that you could actually see if you watched the game? Tiny ass fine.

We've been on the other side of Goodell's BS punishment where one team he worked for before gets a slam on the hand while we take it up the ass for a lesser violation.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Brady lost int he SB and Joe didn't is a stone cold fact.
Brady cheated and his team cheated and those are stone cold facts.
What those things mean in evaluating their Legacies is subjective.

And people being subjective is very much dependent on whether or not they are being realistic or blind homers....

And btw Brady cheating is not a stone cold fact unless you're Roger Goodell.

Yep, saying 5-3 > 4-0 is subjective and saying 4-0 > 5-3 is also subjective.

Brady broke the rules with the football psi, that is cheating. The Pats broke the rules by spying on other teams, that is cheating. What that means to a person when considering Legacy is subjective.

agreed

Grant Cohen is spot on in his article about Montana vs Brady. By his argument for Montana, its not even close!

Joe Montana is the GOAT everyone loves him.