Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by English:

Well, this is one I am not going to agree on. If Montana played under the rules Brady plays under I think he would have set unreachable standards.

Agreed... Montana played Grid Iron Football

Originally posted by Homer:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

The Defense wasn't neutered as they are now. They used to get two steps after the throw to tee off on the QB. Brady would be dead.

Tuck rule... Help Brady
Don't hit below the QB's knees... Protect Brady
Don't touch WRs.... Help all QBs

The lengths the NFL went to protect and help Brady and the rest of the current era QBs leave them all out of the discussion. It isn't close to the same game. Yes, players are bigger and faster, but they're neutered by the rules.

Brady gets rid of the ball fast, though. I appreciate you recognize that players are bigger, stronger, and faster now. I just think the whole "would never survive in that era" attitude can't be used for everyone. If that's the mindset, no one will ever pass Montana and I just don't think that's fair. We're not talking about Andy Dalton.

Joe playing vs more stacked teams is a fair argument. I think that's a wash because Joe had an equally stacked team. Our teams were historic. It's not like we were the modern day colts. All time greats, everywhere.

Any comment on my argument?

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Any comment on my argument?

That the rules help new QB's? I did. I said that it's not fair to blanket every single modern QB with that and think Brady would be fine in that era.

Originally posted by Homer:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Any comment on my argument?

That the rules help new QB's? I did. I said that it's not fair to blanket every single modern QB with that and think Brady would be fine in that era.

You didn't, not really. At least, it is supported by nothing.

Based on what I have seen of Brady, and the same for Warner and others, you hit them, rattle them, they get off their game. That is one of the things that made Montana, Joe Cool. He rarely got rattled. Hit Brady? He loses his s**t, berates the refs. He grew accustomed to special treatment. He has done things that should have garnered penalties.

Brady getting hit by LT or Jim Burt? Brady does not keep his cool.

Brady is the best of the modern era. The era of watered down football.

Montana, Elway, Marino, etc. played with and against teams, powerhouses, that we will never see again.

Originally posted by Homer:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
The Defense wasn't neutered as they are now. They used to get two steps after the throw to tee off on the QB. Brady would be dead.

Tuck rule... Help Brady
Don't hit below the QB's knees... Protect Brady
Don't touch WRs.... Help all QBs

The lengths the NFL went to protect and help Brady and the rest of the current era QBs leave them all out of the discussion. It isn't close to the same game. Yes, players are bigger and faster, but they're neutered by the rules.

Brady gets rid of the ball fast, though. I appreciate you recognize that players are bigger, stronger, and faster now. I just think the whole "would never survive in that era" attitude can't be used for everyone. If that's the mindset, no one will ever pass Montana and I just don't think that's fair. We're not talking about Andy Dalton.

Joe playing vs more stacked teams is a fair argument. I think that's a wash because Joe had an equally stacked team. Our teams were historic. It's not like we were the modern day colts. All time greats, everywhere.

" I think that's a wash because Joe had an equally stacked team" Name any of the superstars on the 81 team, please...

Bias has nothing to do with this it's just a fact for all those that think Brady is better. When they show highlights of Brady's biggest wins he's never the last one on the field throwing a TD pass to win the game. What do we see? Vinatieri and now Malcolm Butler. Check out Brady's stats in his first SB they were horrible against a less than stellar Rams D and his stats in the Eagles Pats SB weren't all that great. Brady supporters always point to the stats. Joe pisses on Brady's SB stats. Compare them game to game. Brady has accumulated more because he was in two more. He's also accumulated more losses. Has he really shined and set himself apart in the biggest games? He's also failed on the biggest stage something Joe never did. Getting back to my earlier point when you think of Joe what do we see and what do they show highlights of? Joe winning games, not a FG kicker, DB or the tuck rule. Nor was Joe's wins shrouded in controversy.

Whether that controversy is warranted or not it's there and he losses points for that. I'm also tired of hearing how Joe played with all these HOF players. People who make those comments are so ignorant. Count how many HOF were on his SB winning teams. If you're not including Joe there was never more than four on any one team. His first two SB wins Ronnie was the only HOF player. Get your facts straight. Joe made a crap offense and players in KC look legit when he was an old man and they haven't been that good since. It's funny what people don't remember. People want to talk about how Brady had no help on his SB teams. Really? You're right his first SB that offense wasn't very good and his stats sucked, who did he make better in that game? Who did Joe have in 81? Clark and Solomon maybe Charlie Young. Not HOFs that's for sure but Joe made them better and put up good numbers.

In 84 they finally had a running game but still no great WRs, in fact they had older versions of Clark and Solomon but Joe still put up numbers making them better. He outclassed and outperformed Marino who had way better weapons in the passing game. In Tom's next two SBs he had Corey Dillon who was awesome at the time and Tom's numbers got better. Tom beat Warner, Wilson, Delhomme and McNabb Joe beat Marino, Anderson, Elway and Easiason. Joe played against way better QBs and didn't always have help, I'm so tired of the selective memory and acting like he played with the 49ers every year. Joe also had mobility he was a duel threat QB something Brady doesn't have and never did. Joe would have never lost a SB with a WR like Moss to throw to. Taking all this into account I'm getting annoyed that this is even a debate. Montana has been considered the best and we are always looking to replace the best with the next great player because we do that as a society. Build a player up just to tear him down they are doing it to Brady right now. People can be tired of Joe being considered the best that's fine but just because they are tired of it doesn't mean he still isn't the greatest that's ever played the position. I'm done this discussion shouldn't even be a debate. Writing this I have now convinced myself of that.

One more thing I love about Joe. He's never been one to campaign for himself. He doesn't put other players down to try to lift his career up when he's doing a talk show and they are discussing great QBs. He didn't even kick Brady when he was down and he had the chance. Joe knows he's better and anyone with any sort of football IQ knows that as well. That's not just my opinion that's a fact. If you believe otherwise your delusional. Brady is great so is Joe lets stop comparing them. Both played on great teams in their respective eras and for great coaches. However if you just can't help yourself on the comparisons and think Brady is better you are obviously entitled to your opinion but your wrong. Joe could beat any one of Brady's SB winning teams with his 93 Chiefs team. Again Brady is awesome probably the second best QB of all time but I don't like comparisons.

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

You didn't, not really. At least, it is supported by nothing.

Based on what I have seen of Brady, and the same for Warner and others, you hit them, rattle them, they get off their game. That is one of the things that made Montana, Joe Cool. He rarely got rattled. Hit Brady? He loses his s**t, berates the refs. He grew accustomed to special treatment. He has done things that should have garnered penalties.

Brady getting hit by LT or Jim Burt? Brady does not keep his cool.

Brady is the best of the modern era. The era of watered down football.

Montana, Elway, Marino, etc. played with and against teams, powerhouses, that we will never see again.

So who would be good from modern days if they took a time machine back to the 80's? I can't think of a better candidate than Brady. Rodgers? If your seperating eras, fine. But you can't say that one is better than the other, then.

Originally posted by eastie:

" I think that's a wash because Joe had an equally stacked team" Name any of the superstars on the 81 team, please...

2 of the top 3 niners of all time (Joe, Lott)
Dwight Clark (who I'd take over Troy Brown or Deion Branch)
Fred Dean

Originally posted by 9moon:
It's not that Young was not able to beat Dallas, it was really the Charles Haley trade... that gave them the edge... had we traded Haley to another team (AFC), Dallas would not have gotten those 2 rings... Especially the 1st one, they would not have beaten us at Home..

I dont even know why we made a deal w/an up coming Cowboys, for a mere 2nd rounder, a 1st round position trade and a clause of Dallas can not trade Haley to the Raiders..

Agreed! One of the worst trades of all time and we spent the next few years trying to find a pass rush. The 49ers were desperate to trade Haley because they couldn't handle him unfortunately. People have a tendency to look down upon you when you masturbate in meetings and in front of teammates in the locker room. Lol! Classic Haley story. I wonder if he continued to do that in Dallas? Is that how he introduced himself to the triplets and Jimmy Johnson? I know Jerry Jones is a little weird maybe that's why he wanted him. And eveybody thought it was for his skills as a pass rusher. He probably made Jones feel normal. Lol! Haley was awesome and he loved Joe still does. He was not happy when Steve took over the starting job after Joe was injured in the NFC Title Game. Everyone remembers what happened in Oakland the following year after a loss? I wonder if Charles relationship with Steve was a factor and partial motivator in Haley being traded? Not the main reason but part of it? Even at that time Haley knew who the best was and how important Joe was to that team.

Originally posted by Homer:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
You didn't, not really. At least, it is supported by nothing.

Based on what I have seen of Brady, and the same for Warner and others, you hit them, rattle them, they get off their game. That is one of the things that made Montana, Joe Cool. He rarely got rattled. Hit Brady? He loses his s**t, berates the refs. He grew accustomed to special treatment. He has done things that should have garnered penalties.

Brady getting hit by LT or Jim Burt? Brady does not keep his cool.

Brady is the best of the modern era. The era of watered down football.

Montana, Elway, Marino, etc. played with and against teams, powerhouses, that we will never see again.

So who would be good from modern days if they took a time machine back to the 80's? I can't think of a better candidate than Brady. Rodgers? If your seperating eras, fine. But you can't say that one is better than the other, then.

Originally posted by eastie:
" I think that's a wash because Joe had an equally stacked team" Name any of the superstars on the 81 team, please...

2 of the top 3 niners of all time (Joe, Lott)
Dwight Clark (who I'd take over Troy Brown or Deion Branch)
Fred Dean

Fred Dean? I don't remember him catching any passes from Joe. was e running the ball? Same for Mr. Lott. Dwight Clark was SLOW, BUT STEADY. Deion Branch was definitely in his class or above...

Originally posted by eastie:

Originally posted by Homer:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
You didn't, not really. At least, it is supported by nothing.

Based on what I have seen of Brady, and the same for Warner and others, you hit them, rattle them, they get off their game. That is one of the things that made Montana, Joe Cool. He rarely got rattled. Hit Brady? He loses his s**t, berates the refs. He grew accustomed to special treatment. He has done things that should have garnered penalties.

Brady getting hit by LT or Jim Burt? Brady does not keep his cool.

Brady is the best of the modern era. The era of watered down football.

Montana, Elway, Marino, etc. played with and against teams, powerhouses, that we will never see again.

So who would be good from modern days if they took a time machine back to the 80's? I can't think of a better candidate than Brady. Rodgers? If your seperating eras, fine. But you can't say that one is better than the other, then.

Originally posted by eastie:
" I think that's a wash because Joe had an equally stacked team" Name any of the superstars on the 81 team, please...

2 of the top 3 niners of all time (Joe, Lott)
Dwight Clark (who I'd take over Troy Brown or Deion Branch)
Fred Dean

Fred Dean? I don't remember him catching any passes from Joe. was e running the ball? Same for Mr. Lott. Dwight Clark was SLOW, BUT STEADY. Deion Branch was definitely in his class or above...

Leave this place hater. But first read Ihatelowellcohen's post number 159 above then go find another pack of dogs that are more in tune with your bark ...

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by IHATELOWELLCOHN:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by IHATELOWELLCOHN:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by IHATELOWELLCOHN:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Really Joe Montana would've been no better than Akili Smith or Quincy Carter without Walsh and all of the HOF players surrounding him.

Some people just can't resist being an (insert word here).

Akili has more passing yards, more TDs, less interceptions, better completion pct., better QB rating, thats a fact. He also played with worse talent and coaches in the NFL, also a fact.

You're talking about college??? College??? Lol!!!

LOL.....alright, I'll stop f**king around. It obvious Montana is one of the greatest, however I was a bigger Young fan because of my age(34)

Yeah you just missed Montana. I'm 37 and remember from about 84 on. You don't remember the 88-89 seasons. If you can remember 89 and still like Young over Montana I'm impressed. Steve was unlike any QB I'd ever seen when he arrived taking on Mike Singletary just running over LBs but Joe was like watching something smooth. He just always seemed to come through when you started to get worried or just when you thought today isn't the day he would throw 4 2nd half TDs and it would be quick too. They would be down 10-13 points and all of a sudden it's the 5:00 minute mark in the 4th quarter and we're up 14. Young was great too but didn't have the same smoothness to his game except the SD SB.

Im actually 33. I turn 34 in August. So, Joe's 49er career was played, and finished, before I was 11.

The reason I became a 49er fan was because of the Superbowl against Denver. It's the first football game that I can actually remember. Watching them go up and down the field, scoring at will, was so cool to me.

However, the Superbowl against SD was the greatest. I was in middle school, and I always wore my 49ers Apex Jacket, still have it too, to school. Everyone knew I liked the Niners, and they were talking s**t about hw SD was going to beat us. It was awesome going back to school and being able to talk s**t to everyone.

I could understand football a lot better when Young was our QB so that's another reason why I like Young better.

Definitely makes a difference who you grow up watching. I'm sure I would have liked Young better too if that was when I could fully appreciate the game. Young was so different from Joe. It was like we had a running back as our QB. Young just made these awesome runs and could always get out of trouble where as Joe even though he was mobile made it look so easy from the pocket. Where did you go to middle school, in San Diego, New York? I can't believe there were kids in your school that thought SD had a chance. I hope you took their money. That game was over when the 49ers kneed on the ball to end the Dallas game. Isn't that still the largest Super Bowl spread in history? I was actually hoping Pittsburgh would beat SD because I hated Terry Bradshaw and he always used to knock the 49ers in the 80s because he felt him and his Steelers teams didn't get the respect the 49ers got.

Steelers also had four SBs and we were going for number 5 it would have been nice to beat them. I thought with their D it would have made for a better game. SF vs Pittsburgh in the SB would have been one of the highest rated and most talked about SBs of all time. It would have also been nice to get bragging rights on my friends that were Steelers fans. I grew up in Pittsburg in the Bay Area and you wouldn't believe how many of my friends became Steelers fans because when they were very young they thought the Steelers played in CA. Lol. We were still the first team to five so at least I had that over them, at that time anyway. Instead we got SD and Steve was just on fire that day. Most prolific performance by a QB in any SB still to this day. He could have thrown 10 TDs and put up 80 plus points had they wanted to and kept the gas pedal down. SD was so overmatched it was really sad. The only drama in that game was how many offensive records the 49ers would set. I still can't believe with the defense we had and the offense they didn't have they put up that many points.

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:

Montana was more clutch and the game was different back then with heavy emphasis on running the ball and defenses allowed to KO QBs and bump & run coverage. Brady is a legend No Doubt but Joe Montana with today's rules would average 50 TDs a year and probably have 7 or 8 SB victories. The NFL wants more offense for more interest with Fantasy Football brings in Billions in revenue Yearly. That wasn't available during the 70's and 80's when Montana was at his peak.

Ty... well said

why are we going through all this again? first of all Brady isn't even the best quarterback today. That goes to Aaron Rodgers. stop talking about stacked teams. New England has had plenty of stacked teams and Joe has won Super Bowls without Jerry Rice - 2 in fact.

only people who have actually seen Brady and Montana play should be allowed to post on this thread.

Originally posted by Homer:
couldn't you say the same about Brady playing for possibly the best offensive mind of all time? Throwing to the greatest football player of all time?

Walsh wanted a good degree of athleticism from his QB. Brady doesn't fit the bill