Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by exile:

I only catch two or three Patriots games every year. Each time, I try to see what makes Brady stand out. It's impossible to deny that his stats are great, and he's done a lot of winning, It's hard to evaluate him when he's got 5 hours behind that OL to make throws. It's also hard to evaluate him when many of his yards are not passing, but YAC: the Pats do an excellent job of getting blockers out front of their receivers. I can't recall many situations where he's had to improvise the way I see Rodgers or Brees do every time I see them play. Montana, too. It's hard to say.

If you could put all the HOF or HOF-worthy QBs in a simulator where all their team advantages were identical, I am skeptical that Brady would be the clear best. Behind an average or worse OL I'd rather have Rodgers or Wilson (LOL). Not that this matters, really.

Re: YAC yards for Brady. ...we can't act like Joe didn't throw a lot of short passes that turned into big gains. John Taylor vs rams is great example.

Originally posted by JimA49ers:

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
As has been stated, different eras. Joe was King of his. Brady is King of this one. In my opinion, Joe is much more impressive given the rules differences.

Joe will always have "The Catch" that kickstarted the dynasty. Brady has the "Tuck Rule", "Spygate", "Deflategate", any other stupid -gate I may have missed (damn, media loves to play up Watergate with every scandal).

For me, Joe hasn't been supplanted. Still the best QB of all time.

Joe also didn't need to have the refs save him with "The Montana Rule" to get to the big game, or have his kicker win a few of the Super Bowls for him, or his opponent's coach call the biggest boneheaded play in the history of Super Bowls.
Joe also played when the game was played by men, not this upscale flag football league. Brady wouldn't have lasted nearly as long or have done well with the way he crumbles the second he is touched.

That is a valid point, combine protecting the QB with unnecessary roughness flags, and allowing offensive lineman to do anything except tackle rushers, the shelf life of QBs should be a lot longer than decades ago when Montana played. Also of course it is much easier to perform the difficult job of NFL QB if you aren't always shrugging off pain. Is there a study somewhere of the average retirement age of starting NFL QBs as the rules have changed to make their life easier? How about games missed due to injury?

I realize this is -- quite literally -- the worst place to get an unbiased discussion going on this topic. But Tom Brady is the GOAT. And admitting that doesn't make you any less of a Niners fan. Give credit where it's due.

Brady is going to his seventh Super Bowl. HIS SEVENTH! Moreover, he's already tied for the most Super Bowl wins in NFL history. On top of that he's worked with, comparatively, few HOF players. That dude has made the most mediocre receivers and RBs look absolutely devastating.

This is before we even consider that Brady has done it in the free agency area. It is exceptionally difficult to keep teams together compared to teams with HOF QBs of old. The dude just keeps on winning. Every year.

And to top it all off, Tom Brady hasn't faded late in his career like Montana and many other have. He's the best QB in the entire league -- at nearly 40.

I know this is an unpopular opinion in these parts. But y'all just need to admit there is literally nothing Brady can do to convince you he's the GOAT. Your mind is already made up. The dude could win the next 3 Super Bowls and some people would say he's not the GOAT.

Originally posted by okdkid:

I realize this is -- quite literally -- the worst place to get an unbiased discussion going on this topic. But Tom Brady is the GOAT. And admitting that doesn't make you any less of a Niners fan. Give credit where it's due.

Brady is going to his seventh Super Bowl. HIS SEVENTH! Moreover, he's already tied for the most Super Bowl wins in NFL history. On top of that he's worked with, comparatively, few HOF players. That dude has made the most mediocre receivers and RBs look absolutely devastating.

This is before we even consider that Brady has done it in the free agency area. It is exceptionally difficult to keep teams together compared to teams with HOF QBs of old. The dude just keeps on winning. Every year.

And to top it all off, Tom Brady hasn't faded late in his career like Montana and many other have. He's the best QB in the entire league -- at nearly 40.

I know this is an unpopular opinion in these parts. But y'all just need to admit there is literally nothing Brady can do to convince you he's the GOAT. Your mind is already made up. The dude could win the next 3 Super Bowls and some people would say he's not the GOAT.

Seen a Stat on twitter last night that Brady is over 60 postseason passing tds and nobody else has more than 45. Pretty impressive considering a lot of their playoff seasons came with a 1st round bye.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by okdkid:
I realize this is -- quite literally -- the worst place to get an unbiased discussion going on this topic. But Tom Brady is the GOAT. And admitting that doesn't make you any less of a Niners fan. Give credit where it's due.

Brady is going to his seventh Super Bowl. HIS SEVENTH! Moreover, he's already tied for the most Super Bowl wins in NFL history. On top of that he's worked with, comparatively, few HOF players. That dude has made the most mediocre receivers and RBs look absolutely devastating.

This is before we even consider that Brady has done it in the free agency area. It is exceptionally difficult to keep teams together compared to teams with HOF QBs of old. The dude just keeps on winning. Every year.

And to top it all off, Tom Brady hasn't faded late in his career like Montana and many other have. He's the best QB in the entire league -- at nearly 40.

I know this is an unpopular opinion in these parts. But y'all just need to admit there is literally nothing Brady can do to convince you he's the GOAT. Your mind is already made up. The dude could win the next 3 Super Bowls and some people would say he's not the GOAT.

Seen a Stat on twitter last night that Brady is over 60 postseason passing tds and nobody else has more than 45. Pretty impressive considering a lot of their playoff seasons came with a 1st round bye.

I mean it's crazy. I would take Tom Brady over any QB in history. The dude owns virtually any playoff record of significance.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
LOL " The way he crumbles the second he is touched". Ha. He has taken tons of hits over the years by guys bigger and stronger than they were in the 80s. He should get credit for his durability in addition to his obvious performance on the field.

I just laugh at how so many people in here (many of whom are too young to have even seen Joe play) just dismiss Brady as being the QB that Joe was. There is no obvious answer to who the GOAT is. When Joe was asked that same question he said the same thing and mentioned guys like Sammy Baugh. The numbers say Brady but numbers and eras are so tough to compare. What would be interesting is if they asked all the players and coaches in the HOF who they think is #1. I think a case can be made for either of the two but is certainly is not a slam dunk thats for sure.

Of course it is a slam dunk, if you saw them play. Ignore the stats. Joe was the more mobile, better read QB who threw the second most cachable ball in the NFL next to Marino. Also, his history of come from behind vicotorys is unparalleled. And he never lost the big one.

SO he is clearly the greatest qb of the post rozelle era.
If I had to pick a challenger from recent NFL it would be Rogers, not Brady.

But I like Brady, more before the knee injury than after. But he is still an asset and a positive contributor. So I am not going to slag on him because he is not Joe.

lol You make it sound like Montana as GOAT is a slam dunk like Michael Jordan would be in the NBA. By the sound of your name I think you are an old guy which makes me understand your love for Joe. You saw him play. I also love Joe, had 50 yard line season tickets for his entire career with the Niners, and never missed a game that he played for us. Trust me, there is no player who I idolized more than Joe Montana.

However, I also respect the hell out of Tom Brady and recognize the amazing accomplishments that he has had. He has been incredible for 16 years and for the most part has thrown to WRs that would never make anyones ALL PRO team. Yes, he has had a great OL that protected him but he has still made all the clutch throws and has got his team to 7 SBs.

Was Joe awesome in Super Bowls? Hell yes. Best ever. However, I can also remember a time when he had some terrible playoff games (85-87) and was close to losing his job to Steve Young. In fact, he actually got pulled in 87 for bad performance. He also got knocked out of 2 critical playoff games. So, he wasnt perfect although most Niners fans would have you think so.

If you go by pure ability and skills probably neither compare to Aaron Rodgers. If you go by accomplishments, wins, and the "IT" factor, then I think its neck and neck between Brady and Joe. By the way, the guy who is 2nd all time in 4th quarter comeback wins is Tom Brady. Joe is 5th. I just think its ridiculous to say that one is "clearly: better than the other and the GOAT. This isnt Jerry Rice and a conversation about WRS.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by exile:
I only catch two or three Patriots games every year. Each time, I try to see what makes Brady stand out. It's impossible to deny that his stats are great, and he's done a lot of winning, It's hard to evaluate him when he's got 5 hours behind that OL to make throws. It's also hard to evaluate him when many of his yards are not passing, but YAC: the Pats do an excellent job of getting blockers out front of their receivers. I can't recall many situations where he's had to improvise the way I see Rodgers or Brees do every time I see them play. Montana, too. It's hard to say.

If you could put all the HOF or HOF-worthy QBs in a simulator where all their team advantages were identical, I am skeptical that Brady would be the clear best. Behind an average or worse OL I'd rather have Rodgers or Wilson (LOL). Not that this matters, really.

Re: YAC yards for Brady. ...we can't act like Joe didn't throw a lot of short passes that turned into big gains. John Taylor vs rams is great example.

What was that game 25+ years ago? I think it was Monday Night, I remember it like yesterday. 49ers were down big early in the 4th and were playing like crap. Making it worse a Ram fan friend kept calling me and rubbing it in. I couldn't bear to watch any more and went driving around listening to it on the radio, the 49ers started coming back so I calmed down and went back home to watch the end. The 49ers pulled it out 30-27 and all was well in the world.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by exile:
I only catch two or three Patriots games every year. Each time, I try to see what makes Brady stand out. It's impossible to deny that his stats are great, and he's done a lot of winning, It's hard to evaluate him when he's got 5 hours behind that OL to make throws. It's also hard to evaluate him when many of his yards are not passing, but YAC: the Pats do an excellent job of getting blockers out front of their receivers. I can't recall many situations where he's had to improvise the way I see Rodgers or Brees do every time I see them play. Montana, too. It's hard to say.

If you could put all the HOF or HOF-worthy QBs in a simulator where all their team advantages were identical, I am skeptical that Brady would be the clear best. Behind an average or worse OL I'd rather have Rodgers or Wilson (LOL). Not that this matters, really.

Re: YAC yards for Brady. ...we can't act like Joe didn't throw a lot of short passes that turned into big gains. John Taylor vs rams is great example.

What was that game 25+ years ago? I think it was Monday Night, I remember it like yesterday. 49ers were down big early in the 4th and were playing like crap. Making it worse a Ram fan friend kept calling me and rubbing it in. I couldn't bear to watch any more and went driving around listening to it on the radio, the 49ers started coming back so I calmed down and went back home to watch the end. The 49ers pulled it out 30-27 and all was well in the world.

It was a Monday night and JT had TWO 90 yard TD receptions in the game. It was unreal. He truly was an underrated player.

Originally posted by okdkid:
I realize this is -- quite literally -- the worst place to get an unbiased discussion going on this topic. But Tom Brady is the GOAT. And admitting that doesn't make you any less of a Niners fan. Give credit where it's due.

Brady is going to his seventh Super Bowl. HIS SEVENTH! Moreover, he's already tied for the most Super Bowl wins in NFL history. On top of that he's worked with, comparatively, few HOF players. That dude has made the most mediocre receivers and RBs look absolutely devastating.

This is before we even consider that Brady has done it in the free agency area. It is exceptionally difficult to keep teams together compared to teams with HOF QBs of old. The dude just keeps on winning. Every year.

And to top it all off, Tom Brady hasn't faded late in his career like Montana and many other have. He's the best QB in the entire league -- at nearly 40.

I know this is an unpopular opinion in these parts. But y'all just need to admit there is literally nothing Brady can do to convince you he's the GOAT. Your mind is already made up. The dude could win the next 3 Super Bowls and some people would say he's not the GOAT.

The impressive thing with the Brady run is the fact it all has been done in the salary cap era, in Montana's day a free spending owner like Eddie D gave his team a big advantage in continuity and not having any weak areas due to budget concerns. As far as Brady not falling off yet pushing 40 is that a direct result of him or more a result of the way QBs are protected these days?

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by okdkid:

I realize this is -- quite literally -- the worst place to get an unbiased discussion going on this topic. But Tom Brady is the GOAT. And admitting that doesn't make you any less of a Niners fan. Give credit where it's due.

Brady is going to his seventh Super Bowl. HIS SEVENTH! Moreover, he's already tied for the most Super Bowl wins in NFL history. On top of that he's worked with, comparatively, few HOF players. That dude has made the most mediocre receivers and RBs look absolutely devastating.

This is before we even consider that Brady has done it in the free agency area. It is exceptionally difficult to keep teams together compared to teams with HOF QBs of old. The dude just keeps on winning. Every year.

And to top it all off, Tom Brady hasn't faded late in his career like Montana and many other have. He's the best QB in the entire league -- at nearly 40.

I know this is an unpopular opinion in these parts. But y'all just need to admit there is literally nothing Brady can do to convince you he's the GOAT. Your mind is already made up. The dude could win the next 3 Super Bowls and some people would say he's not the GOAT.

Seen a Stat on twitter last night that Brady is over 60 postseason passing tds and nobody else has more than 45. Pretty impressive considering a lot of their playoff seasons came with a 1st round bye.

I mean it's crazy. I would take Tom Brady over any QB in history. The dude owns virtually any playoff record of significance.

When you're protected by the refs, and you get your version of Bill Walsh for 17+ years, its not hard to see why Brady has accumulated so much success.

It always comes down to this. 2 mins left in the Super Bowl. Down by 4. Your own life is on the line. You can pick one QB in history to lead that drive. Who do you pick?

With stakes that high, not even Patriots fans would choose Brady. We all know who the best is.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by okdkid:

I realize this is -- quite literally -- the worst place to get an unbiased discussion going on this topic. But Tom Brady is the GOAT. And admitting that doesn't make you any less of a Niners fan. Give credit where it's due.

Brady is going to his seventh Super Bowl. HIS SEVENTH! Moreover, he's already tied for the most Super Bowl wins in NFL history. On top of that he's worked with, comparatively, few HOF players. That dude has made the most mediocre receivers and RBs look absolutely devastating.

This is before we even consider that Brady has done it in the free agency area. It is exceptionally difficult to keep teams together compared to teams with HOF QBs of old. The dude just keeps on winning. Every year.

And to top it all off, Tom Brady hasn't faded late in his career like Montana and many other have. He's the best QB in the entire league -- at nearly 40.

I know this is an unpopular opinion in these parts. But y'all just need to admit there is literally nothing Brady can do to convince you he's the GOAT. Your mind is already made up. The dude could win the next 3 Super Bowls and some people would say he's not the GOAT.

The impressive thing with the Brady run is the fact it all has been done in the salary cap era, in Montana's day a free spending owner like Eddie D gave his team a big advantage in continuity and not having any weak areas due to budget concerns. As far as Brady not falling off yet pushing 40 is that a direct result of him or more a result of the way QBs are protected these days?

Yeah in the pre free agency area your team gets the credit for drafting and developing players that become great, but keeping the team together was pretty easy provided u had an owner like Eddie willing to spend.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by okdkid:
I realize this is -- quite literally -- the worst place to get an unbiased discussion going on this topic. But Tom Brady is the GOAT. And admitting that doesn't make you any less of a Niners fan. Give credit where it's due.

Brady is going to his seventh Super Bowl. HIS SEVENTH! Moreover, he's already tied for the most Super Bowl wins in NFL history. On top of that he's worked with, comparatively, few HOF players. That dude has made the most mediocre receivers and RBs look absolutely devastating.

This is before we even consider that Brady has done it in the free agency area. It is exceptionally difficult to keep teams together compared to teams with HOF QBs of old. The dude just keeps on winning. Every year.

And to top it all off, Tom Brady hasn't faded late in his career like Montana and many other have. He's the best QB in the entire league -- at nearly 40.

I know this is an unpopular opinion in these parts. But y'all just need to admit there is literally nothing Brady can do to convince you he's the GOAT. Your mind is already made up. The dude could win the next 3 Super Bowls and some people would say he's not the GOAT.

The impressive thing with the Brady run is the fact it all has been done in the salary cap era, in Montana's day a free spending owner like Eddie D gave his team a big advantage in continuity and not having any weak areas due to budget concerns. As far as Brady not falling off yet pushing 40 is that a direct result of him or more a result of the way QBs are protected these days?

I'm sure it's both. But let's not forget -- Brady has had his knee torn up. Which makes his GOAT status even more cemented. He took a full year off and he's still crushing these all-time numbers. People trying to claim Montana is the GOAT over Brady are really grasping for straws. They're obvious both all-time greats. But if you take your Niner hat off for 5 min you can see pretty clearly that Brady is the all-time best.

I still believe that it was harder to QB back in the Joe Montana days compare to now.. w/all due respect to Brady, none of his receivers would be able to run around if the same rules from the 80s applies.. these Smurflings of his, no way will they able to finish a route when they can be bumped all over the field..

Today, the WRs feel so much safer running their routes knowing that there are no HEAD HUNTERS out there.. even the QBs now, they hear nothing but ONE ALLIGATOR, 2 ALLIGOTRS, 3 ALLIGOTORS because they know they can not be touched..

in fact, not since JASON TAYLOR's dirty jaw hit on Peyton Manning (rookie year) have I seen a real QB hit in a long time..

Originally posted by 9moon:

I still believe that it was harder to QB back in the Joe Montana days compare to now.. w/all due respect to Brady, none of his receivers would be able to run around if the same rules from the 80s applies.. these Smurflings of his, no way will they able to finish a route when they can be bumped all over the field..

Today, the WRs feel so much safer running their routes knowing that there are no HEAD HUNTERS out there.. even the QBs now, they hear nothing but ONE ALLIGATOR, 2 ALLIGOTRS, 3 ALLIGOTORS because they know they can not be touched..

in fact, not since JASON TAYLOR's dirty jaw hit on Peyton Manning (rookie year) have I seen a real QB hit in a long time..

Remember Romo breaking Kerry Collins jaw?

Originally posted by Niners99:
When you're protected by the refs, and you get your version of Bill Walsh for 17+ years, its not hard to see why Brady has accumulated so much success.

It always comes down to this. 2 mins left in the Super Bowl. Down by 4. Your own life is on the line. You can pick one QB in history to lead that drive. Who do you pick?

With stakes that high, not even Patriots fans would choose Brady. We all know who the best is.

You were 2 years old when Joe last won a SB. How would you know.

Joe's legacy was certainly cemented by 2 drives in playoff games thats for sure. To answer your question, I might take Rodgers given his arm strength, mobility, and accuracy. Not to mention his Hail Mary ability.