Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Also, Tom Brady missed the entire 2008 season, and the first 4 games of this season. The Patriots went 11-5, and 3-1 with the backups. Just saying. For a guy who "carries a team of nobodies", they sure didn't miss him when he was out.

As Brett Favre says, records are meant to be broken as are GOATS. Retired players cannot worry about being replaced, it is part of the cycle of sports.

Brady is the GOAT hands down. I love Montana but Brady is playing with so much fire at age 39, it is awesome.

in the past 16 years, Brady will represent the AFC in 7 Super bowls, Roethlisberger i think 3 and Manning 4, so those 3 qb's make up 14 of the 16 years in the super bowl.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

When you're protected by the refs, and you get your version of Bill Walsh for 17+ years, its not hard to see why Brady has accumulated so much success.

It always comes down to this. 2 mins left in the Super Bowl. Down by 4. Your own life is on the line. You can pick one QB in history to lead that drive. Who do you pick?

With stakes that high, not even Patriots fans would choose Brady. We all know who the best is.

You were 2 years old when Joe last won a SB. How would you know.

Joe's legacy was certainly cemented by 2 drives in playoff games thats for sure. To answer your question, I might take Rodgers given his arm strength, mobility, and accuracy. Not to mention his Hail Mary ability.

So youre saying you had to have witnessed something as it happened to know anything about it? This is tragic news to the historians of the world.

This is your OWN life on the line, and this is the Super Bowl. You're honestly leaving it up to Aaron Rodgers? Your funeral. Rodgers has been to 1 Super Bowl, and has a 10-7 career playoff record..

I don't wanna compare teams, 49ers best vs Pats best, but if you put Montana, Brady, Manning and Rodgers with a team like today's Minnesota Vikings.. ..

Can you all tell me which QB could most likely take the Dolphins to the Super Bowl in ONE YEAR??

Originally posted by exile:
I only catch two or three Patriots games every year. Each time, I try to see what makes Brady stand out. It's impossible to deny that his stats are great, and he's done a lot of winning, It's hard to evaluate him when he's got 5 hours behind that OL to make throws. It's also hard to evaluate him when many of his yards are not passing, but YAC: the Pats do an excellent job of getting blockers out front of their receivers. I can't recall many situations where he's had to improvise the way I see Rodgers or Brees do every time I see them play. Montana, too. It's hard to say.

If you could put all the HOF or HOF-worthy QBs in a simulator where all their team advantages were identical, I am skeptical that Brady would be the clear best. Behind an average or worse OL I'd rather have Rodgers or Wilson (LOL). Not that this matters, really.

If that OL was so good, you would have multiple all-pros and pro bowlers on it. Last year, they actually had a bad OL (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2016/12/guregian_improved_patriots_offensive_line_keeps_tom_brady_safe_and_secure).
For the most part, Brady makes that OL "good". You see it plenty of times when they try to rush 5 or 6, Brady picks it up instantly, he already knows where the ball is going to go and who's going to be open. Brady not being able to scramble is not important at all when he can do those things, Peyton didn't need to scramble either.

On top of that, he also knows when it's just a 3 or 4 man pass rush or when the OL actually picks their guys up properly. If his OL gets beat, 9 times out of 10 he gets rid of quickly. If he realizes he's not being hurried, he'll sit in the pocket until somebody gets open. In general, what makes Brady good is his ability to read every play exceptionally well and making those quick decisions.

YAC results in the fact that he's putting the ball in front of the receivers and allowing them to make a play. Guys like Chris Hogan (lol) wouldn't have all those YACs if Brady was constantly throwing it behind him or at his feet or making him jump for it.

You also have to keep in mind the talent he's had around him. Edelmen, Welker, Troy Brown, decent WRs, but none of those guys are anywhere near a Jerry Rice. That one year with Moss, he broke basically every QB record in the books.

Also, he's never really had a solid running back. Some good pass catching backs, but besides that one year when they had Corey Dillon, he's never really a had RB that he could hand it of to and pick up 4-5 yards.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:
When you're protected by the refs, and you get your version of Bill Walsh for 17+ years, its not hard to see why Brady has accumulated so much success.

It always comes down to this. 2 mins left in the Super Bowl. Down by 4. Your own life is on the line. You can pick one QB in history to lead that drive. Who do you pick?

With stakes that high, not even Patriots fans would choose Brady. We all know who the best is.

You were 2 years old when Joe last won a SB. How would you know.

Joe's legacy was certainly cemented by 2 drives in playoff games thats for sure. To answer your question, I might take Rodgers given his arm strength, mobility, and accuracy. Not to mention his Hail Mary ability.

So youre saying you had to have witnessed something as it happened to know anything about it? This is tragic news to the historians of the world.

This is your OWN life on the line, and this is the Super Bowl. You're honestly leaving it up to Aaron Rodgers? Your funeral. Rodgers has been to 1 Super Bowl, and has a 10-7 career playoff record..

LOL I knew you would get butt hurt. So sensitive. lol There are a lot of great QBs that I might choose for a 4th quarter comeback and it has nothing to do with how many SBs they won. Peyton Manning would be right there. Brady. Joe. Rodgers. Manning is actually by far the greatest in 4th qt come from behind wins.

Joe wasnt perfect. Hell, even before he threw a couple of TD passes to win SB 23 he almost blew the game by throwing a ball right into the hands of Lewis Billips in the endzone. If Billips holds on to that easy pick Joe's legacy is not the same.

As for Rodgers, the talent on his GB teams doesnt even compare to the talent the 49ers had with Joe. He is pretty much the only reason that team wins anything. Just looking at career playoff record and nothing else is shortsighted

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by exile:
I only catch two or three Patriots games every year. Each time, I try to see what makes Brady stand out. It's impossible to deny that his stats are great, and he's done a lot of winning, It's hard to evaluate him when he's got 5 hours behind that OL to make throws. It's also hard to evaluate him when many of his yards are not passing, but YAC: the Pats do an excellent job of getting blockers out front of their receivers. I can't recall many situations where he's had to improvise the way I see Rodgers or Brees do every time I see them play. Montana, too. It's hard to say.

If you could put all the HOF or HOF-worthy QBs in a simulator where all their team advantages were identical, I am skeptical that Brady would be the clear best. Behind an average or worse OL I'd rather have Rodgers or Wilson (LOL). Not that this matters, really.

If that OL was so good, you would have multiple all-pros and pro bowlers on it. Last year, they actually had a bad OL (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2016/12/guregian_improved_patriots_offensive_line_keeps_tom_brady_safe_and_secure).
For the most part, Brady makes that OL "good". You see it plenty of times when they try to rush 5 or 6, Brady picks it up instantly, he already knows where the ball is going to go and who's going to be open. Brady not being able to scramble is not important at all when he can do those things, Peyton didn't need to scramble either.

On top of that, he also knows when it's just a 3 or 4 man pass rush or when the OL actually picks their guys up properly. If his OL gets beat, 9 times out of 10 he gets rid of quickly. If he realizes he's not being hurried, he'll sit in the pocket until somebody gets open. In general, what makes Brady good is his ability to read every play exceptionally well and making those quick decisions.

YAC results in the fact that he's putting the ball in front of the receivers and allowing them to make a play. Guys like Chris Hogan (lol) wouldn't have all those YACs if Brady was constantly throwing it behind him or at his feet or making him jump for it.

You also have to keep in mind the talent he's had around him. Edelmen, Welker, Troy Brown, decent WRs, but none of those guys are anywhere near a Jerry Rice. That one year with Moss, he broke basically every QB record in the books.

Also, he's never really had a solid running back. Some good pass catching backs, but besides that one year when they had Corey Dillon, he's never really a had RB that he could hand it of to and pick up 4-5 yards.

A testament to Tom Brady's GOAT-ness is when the Pats sign some no name undrafted RB to the 53 man roster half way through the season... everybody in fantasy football tries to pick him up.

Chris f'ing Hogan was playing full-time lacrosse 6 years ago, no football. Brady just got that dude nearly 200 yards in an AFC Championship game. It's comical how great he is.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

When you're protected by the refs, and you get your version of Bill Walsh for 17+ years, its not hard to see why Brady has accumulated so much success.

It always comes down to this. 2 mins left in the Super Bowl. Down by 4. Your own life is on the line. You can pick one QB in history to lead that drive. Who do you pick?

With stakes that high, not even Patriots fans would choose Brady. We all know who the best is.

You were 2 years old when Joe last won a SB. How would you know.

Joe's legacy was certainly cemented by 2 drives in playoff games thats for sure. To answer your question, I might take Rodgers given his arm strength, mobility, and accuracy. Not to mention his Hail Mary ability.

So youre saying you had to have witnessed something as it happened to know anything about it? This is tragic news to the historians of the world.

This is your OWN life on the line, and this is the Super Bowl. You're honestly leaving it up to Aaron Rodgers? Your funeral. Rodgers has been to 1 Super Bowl, and has a 10-7 career playoff record..

LOL I knew you would get butt hurt. So sensitive. lol There are a lot of great QBs that I might choose for a 4th quarter comeback and it has nothing to do with how many SBs they won. Peyton Manning would be right there. Brady. Joe. Rodgers. Manning is actually by far the greatest in 4th qt come from behind wins.

Joe wasnt perfect. Hell, even before he threw a couple of TD passes to win SB 23 he almost blew the game by throwing a ball right into the hands of Lewis Billips in the endzone. If Billips holds on to that easy pick Joe's legacy is not the same.

As for Rodgers, the talent on his GB teams doesnt even compare to the talent the 49ers had with Joe. He is pretty much the only reason that team wins anything. Just looking at career playoff record and nothing else is shortsighted

The Billups play wouldnt have blown the game. It was earlier in the quarter. It would've made it harder, but it wasnt a game ender. If were looking at dropped picks, every great has had their fair share of them.

You dont seem to be differentiating 2 mins left in the Super Bowl as a factor here. In the most pressure packed moment in someone's career, who stays calm? Who gets it done? I would never risk my own life on Tom Brady in that scenario. Everyone blames Welker for that drop, but Brady threw the ball behind him.

Brady needed Adam Vinatieri to get him his first 3 rings, and an idiotic play call from the Seahawks to get his 4th. Not to mention being babied his whole career in the protection era. If Seattle runs the ball on the 1, Brady would still be on a 12 year SB drought.

His career body of work is impressive, but its cumulative. Defenses cant touch him, so hes having some of his best years at almost 40 years old. His version of Bill Walsh has been there for 17 years and still going. Give Montana 17 healthy seasons with Bill Walsh and see what he accumulates. Montana was brutalized his entire career. He played hurt regularly.

Montana got his rings by performing at his ultimate best in the biggest moments. Tom Brady has needed outside help for all 4. Can you imagine Joe being owned by a team in the Super Bowl like the Giants own Brady?

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:
When you're protected by the refs, and you get your version of Bill Walsh for 17+ years, its not hard to see why Brady has accumulated so much success.

It always comes down to this. 2 mins left in the Super Bowl. Down by 4. Your own life is on the line. You can pick one QB in history to lead that drive. Who do you pick?

With stakes that high, not even Patriots fans would choose Brady. We all know who the best is.

You were 2 years old when Joe last won a SB. How would you know.

Joe's legacy was certainly cemented by 2 drives in playoff games thats for sure. To answer your question, I might take Rodgers given his arm strength, mobility, and accuracy. Not to mention his Hail Mary ability.

So youre saying you had to have witnessed something as it happened to know anything about it? This is tragic news to the historians of the world.

This is your OWN life on the line, and this is the Super Bowl. You're honestly leaving it up to Aaron Rodgers? Your funeral. Rodgers has been to 1 Super Bowl, and has a 10-7 career playoff record..

LOL I knew you would get butt hurt. So sensitive. lol There are a lot of great QBs that I might choose for a 4th quarter comeback and it has nothing to do with how many SBs they won. Peyton Manning would be right there. Brady. Joe. Rodgers. Manning is actually by far the greatest in 4th qt come from behind wins.

Joe wasnt perfect. Hell, even before he threw a couple of TD passes to win SB 23 he almost blew the game by throwing a ball right into the hands of Lewis Billips in the endzone. If Billips holds on to that easy pick Joe's legacy is not the same.

As for Rodgers, the talent on his GB teams doesnt even compare to the talent the 49ers had with Joe. He is pretty much the only reason that team wins anything. Just looking at career playoff record and nothing else is shortsighted

The Billups play wouldnt have blown the game. It was earlier in the quarter. It would've made it harder, but it wasnt a game ender. If were looking at dropped picks, every great has had their fair share of them.

You dont seem to be differentiating 2 mins left in the Super Bowl as a factor here. In the most pressure packed moment in someone's career, who stays calm? Who gets it done? I would never risk my own life on Tom Brady in that scenario. Everyone blames Welker for that drop, but Brady threw the ball behind him.

Brady needed Adam Vinatieri to get him his first 3 rings, and an idiotic play call from the Seahawks to get his 4th. Not to mention being babied his whole career in the protection era. If Seattle runs the ball on the 1, Brady would still be on a 12 year SB drought.

His career body of work is impressive, but its cumulative. Defenses cant touch him, so hes having some of his best years at almost 40 years old. His version of Bill Walsh has been there for 17 years and still going. Give Montana 17 healthy seasons with Bill Walsh and see what he accumulates. Montana was brutalized his entire career. He played hurt regularly.

Montana got his rings by performing at his ultimate best in the biggest moments. Tom Brady has needed outside help for all 4. Can you imagine Joe being owned by a team in the Super Bowl like the Giants own Brady?

I dont even know where to begin. First of all, if Billips makes the easy pick the Niners would never have been able to win that game. Even after scoring right afterward they still needed a miracle at the end. Joe almost cost the Niners that game with a bad throw. Just sayin. His legacy wouldnt be the same.

I think its laughable that you are saying Brady needed help from his kicker. LOL I guess the fact that he lead his team on last minute clutch drives to get Vinateri close enough to kick a FG doesnt count. First SB he drove the team from his 17 with 1.43 to go to put his kicker in a position to win it. Next SB he drove the team down with 1 minute to go to get close enough to win 32-29. By the way, he threw for 354 yards and 3 tds. All the Pats wins were close but that doesnt mean Brady wasnt clutch. He really was.

So Joe got his rings because he was awesome while Tom only got his through help. Um Kay. LMAO

IT'S REALLY NOT THAT HARD FELLAS..

just pay attention to this.. each time the two QBs, or better yet, any QB plays great, why is that JOE MONTANA is the measuring stick??

Do you hear anyone ever asked..

WAS JOE MONTANA BETTER THAN BRADY OR MANNING OR RODGERS??

the answer is NO!!!

the USUAL question really is... is Brady, Peyton or Rodgers "better" than Joe Montana???

The question alone says it all, that Joe Montana IS ON TOP !!!

"Few may get measured but he wont be surpass !!"
//

Originally posted by 9erred:
As Brett Favre says, records are meant to be broken as are GOATS. Retired players cannot worry about being replaced, it is part of the cycle of sports.

Brady is the GOAT hands down. I love Montana but Brady is playing with so much fire at age 39, it is awesome.

in the past 16 years, Brady will represent the AFC in 7 Super bowls, Roethlisberger i think 3 and Manning 4, so those 3 qb's make up 14 of the 16 years in the super bowl.

Even though I hope Joe's SB record stands, I will say this;

If anyone is going to break Montana's record, I hope it's the home town bay area kid from Serra High School!

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I dont even know where to begin. First of all, if Billips makes the easy pick the Niners would never have been able to win that game. Even after scoring right afterward they still needed a miracle at the end. Joe almost cost the Niners that game with a bad throw. Just sayin. His legacy wouldnt be the same.

I think its laughable that you are saying Brady needed help from his kicker. LOL I guess the fact that he lead his team on last minute clutch drives to get Vinateri close enough to kick a FG doesnt count. First SB he drove the team from his 17 with 1.43 to go to put his kicker in a position to win it. Next SB he drove the team down with 1 minute to go to get close enough to win 32-29. By the way, he threw for 354 yards and 3 tds. All the Pats wins were close but that doesnt mean Brady wasnt clutch. He really was.

So Joe got his rings because he was awesome while Tom only got his through help. Um Kay. LMAO

Yeah, this is a weird argument. I think adjusting for era is the better argument. Brady has played in 6 SB's and has led a go ahead drive within 5 minutes to play 5 times. I think his clutch credentials are pretty well established.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Can you imagine Joe being owned by a team in the Super Bowl like the Giants own Brady?

One of the most powerful Montana > Brady arguments.

And remember......those Giants' teams weren't the Lawrence Taylor Giants teams or the Cowboys/Packers monsters that Young had to face.

Just merely a "hot team" with some luck on their side.

If Joe lost to such a team twice, even WE as Niner fans would be very critical of him.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by 9erred:
As Brett Favre says, records are meant to be broken as are GOATS. Retired players cannot worry about being replaced, it is part of the cycle of sports.

Brady is the GOAT hands down. I love Montana but Brady is playing with so much fire at age 39, it is awesome.

in the past 16 years, Brady will represent the AFC in 7 Super bowls, Roethlisberger i think 3 and Manning 4, so those 3 qb's make up 14 of the 16 years in the super bowl.

Even though I hope Joe's SB record stands, I will say this;

If anyone is going to break Montana's record, I hope it's the home town bay area kid from Serra High School!

Rooting for Atlanta for sure. I would like to see Joe still have a share of the most SB and MVP wins

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by 9erred:
As Brett Favre says, records are meant to be broken as are GOATS. Retired players cannot worry about being replaced, it is part of the cycle of sports.

Brady is the GOAT hands down. I love Montana but Brady is playing with so much fire at age 39, it is awesome.

in the past 16 years, Brady will represent the AFC in 7 Super bowls, Roethlisberger i think 3 and Manning 4, so those 3 qb's make up 14 of the 16 years in the super bowl.

Even though I hope Joe's SB record stands, I will say this;

If anyone is going to break Montana's record, I hope it's the home town bay area kid from Serra High School!

Rooting for Atlanta for sure. I would like to see Joe still have a share of the most SB and MVP wins

Me too