Joe Montana Legacy Secured

I'm pretty astounded at the amount of posters here categorically claiming Brady is GOAT. It's a debate, but in now way is it settled, nor will it be, at least not until Brady retires. That's the nature of these things.

They're both great QBs, tough to compare due to the different eras. I think the best point made so far is that Joe is the measuring stick, Brady may surpass him but he is still the gold standard and hence arguably GOAT, at least until Brady retires and becomes the new measuring stick.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by okdkid:
I realize this is -- quite literally -- the worst place to get an unbiased discussion going on this topic. But Tom Brady is the GOAT. And admitting that doesn't make you any less of a Niners fan. Give credit where it's due.

Brady is going to his seventh Super Bowl. HIS SEVENTH! Moreover, he's already tied for the most Super Bowl wins in NFL history. On top of that he's worked with, comparatively, few HOF players. That dude has made the most mediocre receivers and RBs look absolutely devastating.

This is before we even consider that Brady has done it in the free agency area. It is exceptionally difficult to keep teams together compared to teams with HOF QBs of old. The dude just keeps on winning. Every year.

And to top it all off, Tom Brady hasn't faded late in his career like Montana and many other have. He's the best QB in the entire league -- at nearly 40.

I know this is an unpopular opinion in these parts. But y'all just need to admit there is literally nothing Brady can do to convince you he's the GOAT. Your mind is already made up. The dude could win the next 3 Super Bowls and some people would say he's not the GOAT.

The impressive thing with the Brady run is the fact it all has been done in the salary cap era, in Montana's day a free spending owner like Eddie D gave his team a big advantage in continuity and not having any weak areas due to budget concerns. As far as Brady not falling off yet pushing 40 is that a direct result of him or more a result of the way QBs are protected these days?

I'm sure it's both. But let's not forget -- Brady has had his knee torn up. Which makes his GOAT status even more cemented. He took a full year off and he's still crushing these all-time numbers. People trying to claim Montana is the GOAT over Brady are really grasping for straws. They're obvious both all-time greats. But if you take your Niner hat off for 5 min you can see pretty clearly that Brady is the all-time best.

True, but a guy who has played the game not being able to out run his lineman since 5th grade would probably survive a knee injury that would cost him a step much easier that a guy who used his speed and quickness as a weapon. Seriously I think both Montana and Brady are amazing and if they traded places the team results would have been the same.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Also, Tom Brady missed the entire 2008 season, and the first 4 games of this season. The Patriots went 11-5, and 3-1 with the backups. Just saying. For a guy who "carries a team of nobodies", they sure didn't miss him when he was out.

Not sure of your age and your memory but late in Joe's tenor with the 49ers the offense didn't miss a beat going from Joe to Steve Young to Bono. A lot of the talking heads were giving credit to the system and not the QB.

Originally posted by donalddole:
Montana would be amazing in today's NFL, not just with the liberal passing rules now but with the protection of the QB. Joe got lit up really badly many many games leading to back problems, going in and out of the lineup, and shortening his career. Just imagine how many super bowls Joe would have won if he could have played as many healthy seasons as Brady! I'd guess 6

Leonard effing marshal. bubba effing paris.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by 9erred:

As Brett Favre says, records are meant to be broken as are GOATS. Retired players cannot worry about being replaced, it is part of the cycle of sports.

Brady is the GOAT hands down. I love Montana but Brady is playing with so much fire at age 39, it is awesome.

in the past 16 years, Brady will represent the AFC in 7 Super bowls, Roethlisberger i think 3 and Manning 4, so those 3 qb's make up 14 of the 16 years in the super bowl.

Even though I hope Joe's SB record stands, I will say this;

If anyone is going to break Montana's record, I hope it's the home town bay area kid from Serra High School!

Rooting for Atlanta for sure. I would like to see Joe still have a share of the most SB and MVP wins

Me too

No doubt. Real Fans!!!

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
lol You make it sound like Montana as GOAT is a slam dunk like Michael Jordan would be in the NBA. By the sound of your name I think you are an old guy which makes me understand your love for Joe. You saw him play. I also love Joe, had 50 yard line season tickets for his entire career with the Niners, and never missed a game that he played for us. Trust me, there is no player who I idolized more than Joe Montana.

However, I also respect the hell out of Tom Brady and recognize the amazing accomplishments that he has had. He has been incredible for 16 years and for the most part has thrown to WRs that would never make anyones ALL PRO team. Yes, he has had a great OL that protected him but he has still made all the clutch throws and has got his team to 7 SBs.

Was Joe awesome in Super Bowls? Hell yes. Best ever. However, I can also remember a time when he had some terrible playoff games (85-87) and was close to losing his job to Steve Young. In fact, he actually got pulled in 87 for bad performance. He also got knocked out of 2 critical playoff games. So, he wasnt perfect although most Niners fans would have you think so.

If you go by pure ability and skills probably neither compare to Aaron Rodgers. If you go by accomplishments, wins, and the "IT" factor, then I think its neck and neck between Brady and Joe. By the way, the guy who is 2nd all time in 4th quarter comeback wins is Tom Brady. Joe is 5th. I just think its ridiculous to say that one is "clearly: better than the other and the GOAT. This isnt Jerry Rice and a conversation about WRS.

No, Brady didn't have the tools Joe did -- mobility, improvisation, leadership, play faking, eye faking, the king of timing and progression. Also true leadership in the huddle. Brady is a little temperamental, no mobility, good checkdown, not really a variety thrower.

No WR's? Do I believe what I'm ready1ing? Wes WElker, Randy Moss, Gronk? 3 HoF right there. kevion Faulk best hands of any rb I've ever seen. And he's throwing now to edelman amandola? Come on. NE coaches up receivers like nobody's business. Brady has had plenty of talent on the other end of the throw.

Seriously, this guy has played a long time and has accumulated stats. But, it's pretty clear he doesn't have qualities that joe did as a thrower, as a leader, as an improvisor, as a clutch player.

As I said, Rogers is a better candidate than Brady. But I like Brady, just he's not the guy.

Brady is one of the best QB's in my opinion, But there is no one like Joe. When I watched him play growing up there was that mystique and presence that I just can't describe. I'm sure Tom Brady can relate to what I'm trying to explain , that's why he became a 49er fan.

Originally posted by okdkid:
A testament to Tom Brady's GOAT-ness is when the Pats sign some no name undrafted RB to the 53 man roster half way through the season... everybody in fantasy football tries to pick him up.

Chris f'ing Hogan was playing full-time lacrosse 6 years ago, no football. Brady just got that dude nearly 200 yards in an AFC Championship game. It's comical how great he is.

Why do you say tom brady and not Josh macdaniels/Chad O'Shea?

Originally posted by titan:
Brady is one of the best QB's in my opinion, But there is no one like Joe. When I watched him play growing up there was that mystique and presence that I just can't describe. I'm sure Tom Brady can relate to what I'm trying to explain , that's why he became a 49er fan.

Correct.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

When you're protected by the refs, and you get your version of Bill Walsh for 17+ years, its not hard to see why Brady has accumulated so much success.

It always comes down to this. 2 mins left in the Super Bowl. Down by 4. Your own life is on the line. You can pick one QB in history to lead that drive. Who do you pick?

With stakes that high, not even Patriots fans would choose Brady. We all know who the best is.

You were 2 years old when Joe last won a SB. How would you know.

Joe's legacy was certainly cemented by 2 drives in playoff games thats for sure. To answer your question, I might take Rodgers given his arm strength, mobility, and accuracy. Not to mention his Hail Mary ability.

So youre saying you had to have witnessed something as it happened to know anything about it? This is tragic news to the historians of the world.

This is your OWN life on the line, and this is the Super Bowl. You're honestly leaving it up to Aaron Rodgers? Your funeral. Rodgers has been to 1 Super Bowl, and has a 10-7 career playoff record..

LOL I knew you would get butt hurt. So sensitive. lol There are a lot of great QBs that I might choose for a 4th quarter comeback and it has nothing to do with how many SBs they won. Peyton Manning would be right there. Brady. Joe. Rodgers. Manning is actually by far the greatest in 4th qt come from behind wins.

Joe wasnt perfect. Hell, even before he threw a couple of TD passes to win SB 23 he almost blew the game by throwing a ball right into the hands of Lewis Billips in the endzone. If Billips holds on to that easy pick Joe's legacy is not the same.

As for Rodgers, the talent on his GB teams doesnt even compare to the talent the 49ers had with Joe. He is pretty much the only reason that team wins anything. Just looking at career playoff record and nothing else is shortsighted

The Billups play wouldnt have blown the game. It was earlier in the quarter. It would've made it harder, but it wasnt a game ender. If were looking at dropped picks, every great has had their fair share of them.

You dont seem to be differentiating 2 mins left in the Super Bowl as a factor here. In the most pressure packed moment in someone's career, who stays calm? Who gets it done? I would never risk my own life on Tom Brady in that scenario. Everyone blames Welker for that drop, but Brady threw the ball behind him.

Brady needed Adam Vinatieri to get him his first 3 rings, and an idiotic play call from the Seahawks to get his 4th. Not to mention being babied his whole career in the protection era. If Seattle runs the ball on the 1, Brady would still be on a 12 year SB drought.

His career body of work is impressive, but its cumulative. Defenses cant touch him, so hes having some of his best years at almost 40 years old. His version of Bill Walsh has been there for 17 years and still going. Give Montana 17 healthy seasons with Bill Walsh and see what he accumulates. Montana was brutalized his entire career. He played hurt regularly.

Montana got his rings by performing at his ultimate best in the biggest moments. Tom Brady has needed outside help for all 4. Can you imagine Joe being owned by a team in the Super Bowl like the Giants own Brady?

I dont even know where to begin. First of all, if Billips makes the easy pick the Niners would never have been able to win that game. Even after scoring right afterward they still needed a miracle at the end. Joe almost cost the Niners that game with a bad throw. Just sayin. His legacy wouldnt be the same.

I think its laughable that you are saying Brady needed help from his kicker. LOL I guess the fact that he lead his team on last minute clutch drives to get Vinateri close enough to kick a FG doesnt count. First SB he drove the team from his 17 with 1.43 to go to put his kicker in a position to win it. Next SB he drove the team down with 1 minute to go to get close enough to win 32-29. By the way, he threw for 354 yards and 3 tds. All the Pats wins were close but that doesnt mean Brady wasnt clutch. He really was.

So Joe got his rings because he was awesome while Tom only got his through help. Um Kay. LMAO

They were still in the position to NEED a FG at the end. Brady couldn't finish the win himself. Montana blew out Marino and Elway. He stole victory away from league MVP Boomer Esiason with the 2 minute drive. His SB QB rating is 127.8, by far the best.

You should remember very clearly how violent the league was, especially the NFC for QB's at that time. The Bears, Giants, Eagles, etc. How you can give the edge to Brady, who played in a bubble, is beyond me.

Like I said, give Joe 16 seasons+ with Walsh and ref protection and guess how much more he wouldve accomplished.

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by WINiner:

The fact that coool Joe never relied on his kicker to win the game for any of his SB's had already decided the debate in my mind.

He just counted on a Cowboys defender to drop an Int right before the catch
and counted on a Cincy defender to drop an Int on the drive in the SB
lolz
Joe Cool was awesome but he also had some luck in there too


and the 49ers cheated the system too

And Tom hasn't had any luck? The fact remains.....

Originally posted by BobS:
The impressive thing with the Brady run is the fact it all has been done in the salary cap era, in Montana's day a free spending owner like Eddie D gave his team a big advantage in continuity and not having any weak areas due to budget concerns. As far as Brady not falling off yet pushing 40 is that a direct result of him or more a result of the way QBs are protected these days?

It's a combination of the two. Brady understands, moves in and manipulates his protections before the snap and after better than anyone I've ever seen. He knows when to protect himself and when to take a chance...that's a skill that a lot of people in the history of the NFL have struggle with. I'm sure his lifestyle choices have also played a role as is the way it's been reported in the past that he is always looking for ways to improve his game every offseason.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:
When you're protected by the refs, and you get your version of Bill Walsh for 17+ years, its not hard to see why Brady has accumulated so much success.

It always comes down to this. 2 mins left in the Super Bowl. Down by 4. Your own life is on the line. You can pick one QB in history to lead that drive. Who do you pick?

With stakes that high, not even Patriots fans would choose Brady. We all know who the best is.

You were 2 years old when Joe last won a SB. How would you know.

Joe's legacy was certainly cemented by 2 drives in playoff games thats for sure. To answer your question, I might take Rodgers given his arm strength, mobility, and accuracy. Not to mention his Hail Mary ability.

So youre saying you had to have witnessed something as it happened to know anything about it? This is tragic news to the historians of the world.

This is your OWN life on the line, and this is the Super Bowl. You're honestly leaving it up to Aaron Rodgers? Your funeral. Rodgers has been to 1 Super Bowl, and has a 10-7 career playoff record..

LOL I knew you would get butt hurt. So sensitive. lol There are a lot of great QBs that I might choose for a 4th quarter comeback and it has nothing to do with how many SBs they won. Peyton Manning would be right there. Brady. Joe. Rodgers. Manning is actually by far the greatest in 4th qt come from behind wins.

Joe wasnt perfect. Hell, even before he threw a couple of TD passes to win SB 23 he almost blew the game by throwing a ball right into the hands of Lewis Billips in the endzone. If Billips holds on to that easy pick Joe's legacy is not the same.

As for Rodgers, the talent on his GB teams doesnt even compare to the talent the 49ers had with Joe. He is pretty much the only reason that team wins anything. Just looking at career playoff record and nothing else is shortsighted

The Billups play wouldnt have blown the game. It was earlier in the quarter. It would've made it harder, but it wasnt a game ender. If were looking at dropped picks, every great has had their fair share of them.

You dont seem to be differentiating 2 mins left in the Super Bowl as a factor here. In the most pressure packed moment in someone's career, who stays calm? Who gets it done? I would never risk my own life on Tom Brady in that scenario. Everyone blames Welker for that drop, but Brady threw the ball behind him.

Brady needed Adam Vinatieri to get him his first 3 rings, and an idiotic play call from the Seahawks to get his 4th. Not to mention being babied his whole career in the protection era. If Seattle runs the ball on the 1, Brady would still be on a 12 year SB drought.

His career body of work is impressive, but its cumulative. Defenses cant touch him, so hes having some of his best years at almost 40 years old. His version of Bill Walsh has been there for 17 years and still going. Give Montana 17 healthy seasons with Bill Walsh and see what he accumulates. Montana was brutalized his entire career. He played hurt regularly.

Montana got his rings by performing at his ultimate best in the biggest moments. Tom Brady has needed outside help for all 4. Can you imagine Joe being owned by a team in the Super Bowl like the Giants own Brady?

I dont even know where to begin. First of all, if Billips makes the easy pick the Niners would never have been able to win that game. Even after scoring right afterward they still needed a miracle at the end. Joe almost cost the Niners that game with a bad throw. Just sayin. His legacy wouldnt be the same.

I think its laughable that you are saying Brady needed help from his kicker. LOL I guess the fact that he lead his team on last minute clutch drives to get Vinateri close enough to kick a FG doesnt count. First SB he drove the team from his 17 with 1.43 to go to put his kicker in a position to win it. Next SB he drove the team down with 1 minute to go to get close enough to win 32-29. By the way, he threw for 354 yards and 3 tds. All the Pats wins were close but that doesnt mean Brady wasnt clutch. He really was.

So Joe got his rings because he was awesome while Tom only got his through help. Um Kay. LMAO

They were still in the position to NEED a FG at the end. Brady couldn't finish the win himself. Montana blew out Marino and Elway. He stole victory away from league MVP Boomer Esiason with the 2 minute drive. His SB QB rating is 127.8, by far the best.

You should remember very clearly how violent the league was, especially the NFC for QB's at that time. The Bears, Giants, Eagles, etc. How you can give the edge to Brady, who played in a bubble, is beyond me.

Like I said, give Joe 16 seasons+ with Walsh and ref protection and guess how much more he wouldve accomplished.

All I can do is laugh. "Brady couldnt finish the win himself" DO you realize how dumb this statement is? He lead 2 long drives in the last minute to put his team in a chance to win on a FG.

BTW.. Montana didnt blow out Marino and Elway. The 49ers, with their 2 greatest teams ever, blew out mismatched Dolphins and Broncos teams. You werent alive yet (watch the game if you havent had a chance) but the Niners defense totally shut down Marino lead by Fred Dean and Gary Johnson. It was a total team effort.

Joe was brilliant in SBs. No one is denying that but Brady has been as well.

Originally posted by WINiner:
And Tom hasn't had any luck? The fact remains.....

Inflategate

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by okdkid:
A testament to Tom Brady's GOAT-ness is when the Pats sign some no name undrafted RB to the 53 man roster half way through the season... everybody in fantasy football tries to pick him up.

Chris f'ing Hogan was playing full-time lacrosse 6 years ago, no football. Brady just got that dude nearly 200 yards in an AFC Championship game. It's comical how great he is.

Why do you say tom brady and not Josh macdaniels/Chad O'Shea?

The same reason I don't say Bill Walsh. They're not the ones throwing the ball.