Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by McClusky:

Originally posted by FlayvaMeister:
As good as Tom Brady is, he'll never be Joe. Not just to me, but to many others, who have seen them
both (play) during their primes. I have yet to see Brady, put the Patriots on-his-back, on the NFL' biggest
stage, and will them to victory. I witnessed Joe do this twice in SB' !!! Until Brady does so, he'll remain at
# 2 in my eyes.

Of the 10 highest passing attempt games in SB history the only 2 that have resulted in victory come from Brady. This isn't a strong argument.

Also, I will say it again: down 24-14 against in the 4th quarter against the Seahawks -- one of the best defenses of the last 15 years -- in Super Bowl XLIX, Tom Brady went 13-15, threw for 124 yards and two touchdowns, and had a 140.7 passer rating during the quarter. If that doesn't constitute as "putting a team on the back and willing them to victory" I don't know what does. And, again. he did it against the Seahawks, no less.

Here's another ridiculous stat: in the history of the NFL postseason, there have been 37 instances that a quarterback has attempted 50+ passes in a game (including Brady in Super Bowl XLIX). Excluding Brady, quarterbacks are a combined 3-28 (.097 win %); Brady is 4-2 (.667 win %). Think about that. Brady himself has more wins in the 50+ attempt scenario than every other quarterback in playoff history combined.

Originally posted by FlayvaMeister:
Lots of people try to make comparisons, strictly by using stats, while never having lived in/during both
players time. It's generational (I get that), and subject to what one relates to. It's a different story (IMO),
when you can factor into the argument, having seen those players in discussion live.

As good as Tom Brady is, he'll never be Joe. Not just to me, but to many others, who have seen them
both (play) during their primes. I have yet to see Brady, put the Patriots on-his-back, on the NFL' biggest
stage, and will them to victory. I witnessed Joe do this twice in SB' !!! Until Brady does so, he'll remain at
# 2 in my eyes.

Okay, but here's the thing: some people prefer Montana, some people prefer Brady. In what can only be described as a huge coincidence, Patriots fans overwhelmingly favor Tom Brady in these discussions, and 49ers fans overwhelmingly favor Joe Montana. For neutral parties, it seems to be a toss-up. Some prefer Brady, some prefer Montana.

The thing about Brady vs. Montana is that it is grounds for debate. Jerry Rice does not have any contemporaries. He is so far ahead of the pack and I've never heard a single person argue that any other wide receiver is the GOAT. Montana is not. If you think Montana is the best, he's not far enough of Brady that it's not a discussion.

Note that at no point in this topic have I said that I think Brady is better than Montana. People think that just because I argue points in Brady's favor that I prefer him to Joe. That's not true. I don't know who I think is better. I think there are compelling arguments for both.

Rules have changed so much, they are each the best of their era. The part that will always convince me, other than my 49ers bias are the game winning TD drives in big moments and 4-0.

Unblemished record means a lot to me, MJ 6-0, Joe 4-0. Perfection counts for a lot.

Originally posted by FlayvaMeister:

Originally posted by theduke85:
... I love Montana and I think he is very-arguably the best QB ever ...

Originally posted by theduke85:
Note that at no point in this topic have I said that I think Brady is better than Montana. People think that just because I argue points in Brady's favor that I prefer him to Joe. That's not true. I don't know who I think is better. I think there are compelling arguments for both.

If the points in my post came across as such, I guess my wording was off ... not an indication of what I tried to convey.
There are certain areas, in which Tom, surpasses Joe ... but with the game on the line, and by that, I mean the ultimate
game, give me Joe !

Let Brady get hit by Suh and Justin Houston the way Montana got lit up in the 80s. Joe could thrive in today's game. Brady wouldn't last in Joe's era.

Originally posted by FlayvaMeister:

Originally posted by theduke85:
Note that at no point in this topic have I said that I think Brady is better than Montana. People think that just because I argue points in Brady's favor that I prefer him to Joe. That's not true. I don't know who I think is better. I think there are compelling arguments for both.

If the points in my post came across as such, I guess my wording was off ... not an indication of what I tried to convey.
There are certain areas, in which Tom, surpasses Joe ... but with the game on the line, and by that, I mean the ultimate
game, give me Joe !

Okay, thanks for clarifying, and sorry if I put words in your mouth. Thanks again for articulating your thoughts, nice perspective!

I wish people would stop with this entire argument/comparison between Montana and Brady. Montana was the best of his era and Brady the best of this one. Montana played in an era when defenses were allowed to smash qb's and mug receivers. Brady plays with the safety net of today's NFL rules and you're out of your mind if you don't think that has an impact on his numbers and accomplishments. I personally think what Montana did was more impressive but I'm not going to say he's better than Mr. Perfect. Brady is amazing and what he does with that receiving core is just crazy. The two cannot be compared IMO. They didn't even play the same game.

Originally posted by NinerG94:
I wish people would stop with this entire argument/comparison between Montana and Brady. Montana was the best of his era and Brady the best of this one. Montana played in an era when defenses were allowed to smash qb's and mug receivers. Brady plays with the safety net of today's NFL rules and you're out of your mind if you don't think that has an impact on his numbers and accomplishments. I personally think what Montana did was more impressive but I'm not going to say he's better than Mr. Perfect. Brady is amazing and what he does with that receiving core is just crazy. The two cannot be compared IMO. They didn't even play the same game.

Brady played and won a SB in the Steve Young era before all the rules were set in place to protect QB's.

Originally posted by NinerG94:
I wish people would stop with this entire argument/comparison between Montana and Brady. Montana was the best of his era and Brady the best of this one. Montana played in an era when defenses were allowed to smash qb's and mug receivers. Brady plays with the safety net of today's NFL rules and you're out of your mind if you don't think that has an impact on his numbers and accomplishments. I personally think what Montana did was more impressive but I'm not going to say he's better than Mr. Perfect. Brady is amazing and what he does with that receiving core is just crazy. The two cannot be compared IMO. They didn't even play the same game.

On top of that the slow footed not quite so athletic types that look like they never saw the inside of a weight room get protected over and above the rest of the QB class. Big Ben and Newton still get hit fairly hard for this era without flags, if a defender sneezes on Tom Brady a flag goes flying.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by NinerG94:
I wish people would stop with this entire argument/comparison between Montana and Brady. Montana was the best of his era and Brady the best of this one. Montana played in an era when defenses were allowed to smash qb's and mug receivers. Brady plays with the safety net of today's NFL rules and you're out of your mind if you don't think that has an impact on his numbers and accomplishments. I personally think what Montana did was more impressive but I'm not going to say he's better than Mr. Perfect. Brady is amazing and what he does with that receiving core is just crazy. The two cannot be compared IMO. They didn't even play the same game.

Brady played and won a SB in the Steve Young era before all the rules were set in place to protect QB's.

What do you mean by that? Since the mid 70's the rules and their interpretation have evolved almost on a yearly bases to protect QBs. Montana was a lot safer that his predecessors from just a couple years before he came in the league. The head slap and clotheslining were legal till around 1977.

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
If Joe Montana cheated and had the defense's plays he would have 10 super bowls easily.

Joe Montana snorted mounds of coke and Bill Walsh cheated to get better players on the team before the CBA made it illegal to tamper with player contracts.

If you ain't cheating you ain't winning.

Hence, brittle bones, and if anything, it prevented him from winning 12 SBs

#That'sRealTalk

Originally posted by BobS:
What do you mean by that? Since the mid 70's the rules and their interpretation have evolved almost on a yearly bases to protect QBs. Montana was a lot safer that his predecessors from just a couple years before he came in the league. The head slap and clotheslining were legal till around 1977.

Well this current pass happy era of the NFL can be tied to the 2008 season, before then it was still a much more physical league. That was also the year Brady got his knee shreaded.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/18/sports/football/as-rules-protect-quarterbacks-nfl-defenses-are-on-the-defensive.html

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by NinerG94:

I wish people would stop with this entire argument/comparison between Montana and Brady. Montana was the best of his era and Brady the best of this one. Montana played in an era when defenses were allowed to smash qb's and mug receivers. Brady plays with the safety net of today's NFL rules and you're out of your mind if you don't think that has an impact on his numbers and accomplishments. I personally think what Montana did was more impressive but I'm not going to say he's better than Mr. Perfect. Brady is amazing and what he does with that receiving core is just crazy. The two cannot be compared IMO. They didn't even play the same game.

Brady played and won a SB in the Steve Young era before all the rules were set in place to protect QB's.

What do you mean by that? Since the mid 70's the rules and their interpretation have evolved almost on a yearly bases to protect QBs. Montana was a lot safer that his predecessors from just a couple years before he came in the league. The head slap and clotheslining were legal till around 1977.

Oh yeah, Decon with the head slap combo and Night Train with the facemask and clothesline tackles got the rules changed.
One of my favorite old bruisers was Hard Hittin Hardy Brown...he claimed 75-80 KOs and he inded tracked them on a chart.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d81117b47/Top-Ten-Most-Feared-Tacklers-Hardy-Brown
He and Lott could rack up a few targeting penalties.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by FlayvaMeister:
Lots of people try to make comparisons, strictly by using stats, while never having lived in/during both
players time. It's generational (I get that), and subject to what one relates to. It's a different story (IMO),
when you can factor into the argument, having seen those players in discussion live.

As good as Tom Brady is, he'll never be Joe. Not just to me, but to many others, who have seen them
both (play) during their primes. I have yet to see Brady, put the Patriots on-his-back, on the NFL' biggest
stage, and will them to victory. I witnessed Joe do this twice in SB' !!! Until Brady does so, he'll remain at
# 2 in my eyes.

Okay, but here's the thing: some people prefer Montana, some people prefer Brady. In what can only be described as a huge coincidence, Patriots fans overwhelmingly favor Tom Brady in these discussions, and 49ers fans overwhelmingly favor Joe Montana. For neutral parties, it seems to be a toss-up. Some prefer Brady, some prefer Montana.

The thing about Brady vs. Montana is that it is grounds for debate. Jerry Rice does not have any contemporaries. He is so far ahead of the pack and I've never heard a single person argue that any other wide receiver is the GOAT. Montana is not. If you think Montana is the best, he's not far enough of Brady that it's not a discussion.

Note that at no point in this topic have I said that I think Brady is better than Montana. People think that just because I argue points in Brady's favor that I prefer him to Joe. That's not true. I don't know who I think is better. I think there are compelling arguments for both.

my sentiments exactly. If we were talking about WRs this debate would have ended after 1 post. lol

Originally posted by TheNef77:
Let Brady get hit by Suh and Justin Houston the way Montana got lit up in the 80s. Joe could thrive in today's game. Brady wouldn't last in Joe's era.

And how do you know he wouldnt last? Brady is 6 4 and 225. Joe was 6 2 and 200. Saying Brady wouldnt have lasted in that era is ridiculous.

Dan Marino started 16 games 8 of 9 years from 84-92. Elway was hardly ever hurt. Brett Favre started over 200 consecutive starts in which almost all were in "Joes era". Perhaps it wasnt so much the era but the fact that Joe was pretty darn fragile and a guy who was knocked out of 2 playoff games.