Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by natediaz:
first, it's impossible to compare era to era. if current brady or rodgers went back in time to play in the 80's, they would destroy the league. it's like going back in time with a new porsche 911 turbo and racing against past great sports cars. latest sports car will destroy the old ones. we always ignore athletic evolution. things evolve very quickly in sports. i know it's easy to glorify the past athletes, but athletes always get better. just look at the olympics. it's an athletic evolution.

Just curious how old are you that would cause you to post such nonsense? Athletic evolution? Like Tom Brady's 5.28 forty? You act like Montana played in the stone age when it came to training. Look at some of the top numbers at the combine a lot of the top numbers are from the 90's. The fastest 40 time was set by Bo Jackson in the mid 80's. A lot of training methods and nutrition are still the same as they were 35 years ago. A lot of the players that are larger than days gone by are just fat. The only difference between Randy Cross and a modern NFL lineman is the 50 pound gut. If you pointed at the mid 60's and before as the NFL athletes being markedly inferior you would have a point, weight training wasn't widely used till the late 60's early 70's which also coincided with the first steroid use. The big difference between Montana's day and today is in medical procedures, and possibly cheaters staying ahead of the drug testing. Olympic athletes improve especially in the sprint events has to be tied to undetectable cheating that maybe NFL players don't do or won't risk like blood doping. How Olympic sprint times drop without NFL athletes getting faster in the same time period is strange. I was a workout warrior in college, played linebacker what I could do 35 years ago is the same as combine guys at that position today, off of meat, potatoes, protein powder and amino acids.

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Both hits knocked him out cold. Brady is not a physical guy, he's not fast, he's not nimble, he's not especially challenging. It's less likely he would maintain his health in prior eras. Joe is the smaller guy, but a little tougher out on the football field. Brady has unmatched durability, partly a result of avoiding contact.

I think that if Joe had a chance to where Uggs and feel the comfort of them, feeling above everyone and get too relaxed from the elegant feeling of wearing them, he too might cry to refs every time he was tapped, bumped or hit

brady is one of the toughest QB ever. and he wears uggs. that takes balls

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheNef77:
Let Brady get hit by Suh and Justin Houston the way Montana got lit up in the 80s. Joe could thrive in today's game. Brady wouldn't last in Joe's era.

And how do you know he wouldnt last? Brady is 6 4 and 225. Joe was 6 2 and 200. Saying Brady wouldnt have lasted in that era is ridiculous.

Dan Marino started 16 games 8 of 9 years from 84-92. Elway was hardly ever hurt. Brett Favre started over 200 consecutive starts in which almost all were in "Joes era". Perhaps it wasnt so much the era but the fact that Joe was pretty darn fragile and a guy who was knocked out of 2 playoff games.

You ever see Brady with his shirt off? He can't be anywhere near 225, more like 210 even if he is 6'4". Kap is 225 at the same height. Do they look the same to you?

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheNef77:
Let Brady get hit by Suh and Justin Houston the way Montana got lit up in the 80s. Joe could thrive in today's game. Brady wouldn't last in Joe's era.

And how do you know he wouldnt last? Brady is 6 4 and 225. Joe was 6 2 and 200. Saying Brady wouldnt have lasted in that era is ridiculous.

Dan Marino started 16 games 8 of 9 years from 84-92. Elway was hardly ever hurt. Brett Favre started over 200 consecutive starts in which almost all were in "Joes era". Perhaps it wasnt so much the era but the fact that Joe was pretty darn fragile and a guy who was knocked out of 2 playoff games.

You ever see Brady with his shirt off? He can't be anywhere near 225, more like 210 even if he is 6'4". Kap is 225 at the same height. Do they look the same to you?

Maybe the pic you have of him with his shirt off is when he was at the combine and not close to physically fit and defined like he is now. Maybe the NFL is lying or you weighed him yourself. I dont know

http://www.patriots.com/team/roster Notice by the name Tom Brady..... 6'4 225

The point is.. Brady is a big guy and to say he couldnt last in Joes era is beyond crazy. As I showed above, Marino, Elway, and Favre were certainly able to play without missing any games. No reason to think Brady couldnt as well

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by natediaz:
first, it's impossible to compare era to era. if current brady or rodgers went back in time to play in the 80's, they would destroy the league. it's like going back in time with a new porsche 911 turbo and racing against past great sports cars. latest sports car will destroy the old ones. we always ignore athletic evolution. things evolve very quickly in sports. i know it's easy to glorify the past athletes, but athletes always get better. just look at the olympics. it's an athletic evolution.

Just curious how old are you that would cause you to post such nonsense? Athletic evolution? Like Tom Brady's 5.28 forty? You act like Montana played in the stone age when it came to training. Look at some of the top numbers at the combine a lot of the top numbers are from the 90's. The fastest 40 time was set by Bo Jackson in the mid 80's. A lot of training methods and nutrition are still the same as they were 35 years ago. A lot of the players that are larger than days gone by are just fat. The only difference between Randy Cross and a modern NFL lineman is the 50 pound gut. If you pointed at the mid 60's and before as the NFL athletes being markedly inferior you would have a point, weight training wasn't widely used till the late 60's early 70's which also coincided with the first steroid use. The big difference between Montana's day and today is in medical procedures, and possibly cheaters staying ahead of the drug testing. Olympic athletes improve especially in the sprint events has to be tied to undetectable cheating that maybe NFL players don't do or won't risk like blood doping. How Olympic sprint times drop without NFL athletes getting faster in the same time period is strange. I was a workout warrior in college, played linebacker what I could do 35 years ago is the same as combine guys at that position today, off of meat, potatoes, protein powder and amino acids.

cam chancellor is bigger than fred dean who played DE. brady is obviously dan marino mold. 6ft 4 225lb guy who can take a pounding.

NFL has grown so much since the 80's. why?

1. more money in the football - NFL is the biggest sports in the U.S
2. bigger talent pool - US popluation is now at 330 mil. in 80's it was around 250mil.

these 2 things alone make the talent level better than ever before. there is a reason why most olympic records get broken all the time.

and yes, today's training and nutrient are huge part of it. so it's not a fair comparison. i already said that. we don't know if montana in today's NFL would last a a year. maybe he runs around like RGIII and never recovers. we don't know if brady never get to know that rigorous dieting int he 80's.

so i can only compare what i see and what i know. my eye test, my educated guesses, and etc.

and my logic says this brady who has that advantage will destroy the players in the 80's because

1. game is slower. don't deny it. go watch some old 80's tapes. it's much slower.
2. brady has much faster processing speed. since the game is faster, brady has to adjust to the speed of game. it would be much easier for brady to decipher the defense. defense became so much more sophisticated. you go watch some high school footballs or watch some high school QB bootcamps aired on espn. their playbook is thick as hell. football is no longer tough guy's game. you gotta be smart. that's why walsh was ahead of his time.


look, it's ok to argue montana > brady or vice versa. but i have a problem with some of you saying 'it's so easy to play in today's league!' this argument doesn't even make sense because every year we only have about 7-9 good QBs. rest of them still struggles. if it was so easy then maybe kaepernick, bortles or other so-so QBs should do better.

it's mind boggling to me the hate brady gets. this dude is a 39 year old who still believes he can get better. IMO the big difference between brady and montana are heart. i don't know if there's anybody who has bigger heart than brady. just watch brady playing till 45. dude will literally break all kind of records. but sadly many of you will still say 4-0>

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by natediaz:
first, it's impossible to compare era to era. if current brady or rodgers went back in time to play in the 80's, they would destroy the league. it's like going back in time with a new porsche 911 turbo and racing against past great sports cars. latest sports car will destroy the old ones. we always ignore athletic evolution. things evolve very quickly in sports. i know it's easy to glorify the past athletes, but athletes always get better. just look at the olympics. it's an athletic evolution.

Just curious how old are you that would cause you to post such nonsense? Athletic evolution? Like Tom Brady's 5.28 forty? You act like Montana played in the stone age when it came to training. Look at some of the top numbers at the combine a lot of the top numbers are from the 90's. The fastest 40 time was set by Bo Jackson in the mid 80's. A lot of training methods and nutrition are still the same as they were 35 years ago. A lot of the players that are larger than days gone by are just fat. The only difference between Randy Cross and a modern NFL lineman is the 50 pound gut. If you pointed at the mid 60's and before as the NFL athletes being markedly inferior you would have a point, weight training wasn't widely used till the late 60's early 70's which also coincided with the first steroid use. The big difference between Montana's day and today is in medical procedures, and possibly cheaters staying ahead of the drug testing. Olympic athletes improve especially in the sprint events has to be tied to undetectable cheating that maybe NFL players don't do or won't risk like blood doping. How Olympic sprint times drop without NFL athletes getting faster in the same time period is strange. I was a workout warrior in college, played linebacker what I could do 35 years ago is the same as combine guys at that position today, off of meat, potatoes, protein powder and amino acids.

OL and DLs are not only bigger, but they also didn't lose speed much. taylor lewan ran 4.87. dude is 6ft 7 310lb. and stop bringing up 'cheating' argument. players juiced up like crazy people back in the days. WRs used stickums. come on man. and you don't think players didn't cheat in olympics? ben johnson roided up and only ran 9.78. imagine usain bolt roid up like ben johnson. he probably runs 9.5 in his prime.

i'm a big michigan fan because of harbaugh. i follow college recruiting reliously. chris wormly is 6ft 5 1/2 and 297lb. DE. taco charleton is 6ft 6 275lb. DE. and you think these guys are fat? they are built like tanks.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheNef77:
Let Brady get hit by Suh and Justin Houston the way Montana got lit up in the 80s. Joe could thrive in today's game. Brady wouldn't last in Joe's era.

And how do you know he wouldnt last? Brady is 6 4 and 225. Joe was 6 2 and 200. Saying Brady wouldnt have lasted in that era is ridiculous.

Dan Marino started 16 games 8 of 9 years from 84-92. Elway was hardly ever hurt. Brett Favre started over 200 consecutive starts in which almost all were in "Joes era". Perhaps it wasnt so much the era but the fact that Joe was pretty darn fragile and a guy who was knocked out of 2 playoff games.

You ever see Brady with his shirt off? He can't be anywhere near 225, more like 210 even if he is 6'4". Kap is 225 at the same height. Do they look the same to you?

Maybe the pic you have of him with his shirt off is when he was at the combine and not close to physically fit and defined like he is now. Maybe the NFL is lying or you weighed him yourself. I dont know

http://www.patriots.com/team/roster Notice by the name Tom Brady..... 6'4 225

The point is.. Brady is a big guy and to say he couldnt last in Joes era is beyond crazy. As I showed above, Marino, Elway, and Favre were certainly able to play without missing any games. No reason to think Brady couldnt as well

yes. brady can play in any league because he is the smartest QB. there's something called 'presnap' apparently niners fan never heard of. brady's greatest strength is knowing where the pressure comes from. he deciphers the defense presnap. and then he doesn't try to extend the play by his feet because he knows that's the his greatest strength. brady will only take what the defense gives him.

that's why he can play 15-20 years in any era. it's a joke argument saying brady won't last in this or that era.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by natediaz:
first, it's impossible to compare era to era. if current brady or rodgers went back in time to play in the 80's, they would destroy the league. it's like going back in time with a new porsche 911 turbo and racing against past great sports cars. latest sports car will destroy the old ones. we always ignore athletic evolution. things evolve very quickly in sports. i know it's easy to glorify the past athletes, but athletes always get better. just look at the olympics. it's an athletic evolution.

Just curious how old are you that would cause you to post such nonsense? Athletic evolution? Like Tom Brady's 5.28 forty? You act like Montana played in the stone age when it came to training. Look at some of the top numbers at the combine a lot of the top numbers are from the 90's. The fastest 40 time was set by Bo Jackson in the mid 80's. A lot of training methods and nutrition are still the same as they were 35 years ago. A lot of the players that are larger than days gone by are just fat. The only difference between Randy Cross and a modern NFL lineman is the 50 pound gut. If you pointed at the mid 60's and before as the NFL athletes being markedly inferior you would have a point, weight training wasn't widely used till the late 60's early 70's which also coincided with the first steroid use. The big difference between Montana's day and today is in medical procedures, and possibly cheaters staying ahead of the drug testing. Olympic athletes improve especially in the sprint events has to be tied to undetectable cheating that maybe NFL players don't do or won't risk like blood doping. How Olympic sprint times drop without NFL athletes getting faster in the same time period is strange. I was a workout warrior in college, played linebacker what I could do 35 years ago is the same as combine guys at that position today, off of meat, potatoes, protein powder and amino acids.

bo jackson never ran an official combine. i won't believe any hand timed measurements.

there are transcendent talents. i'm not arguing that. i'm talking about the league as a whole. on average today's players are bigger and stronger. that's a fact because we have more information now on how to get bigger and better. it's not a rocket science. information expands. you can simply google everything and get a valuable information out of it. today's players know NFL GMs want 3-4 DE to be 6ft 4 + weight 270+. that's the ideal goal, so players adjust their workout habit to hit that weight. you can't grow any taller, but you can hit that ideal weight and still not lose speed. and remember football is game of speed and RECOVERY. fat DLs like vince wilfork can play because every play is only about 3-8 sec. so their bodies adjust and recover. 80's players would beat up today's players in rugby, but it's again football is series of 4-10 second plays put together.

Anyone over 50 writing these posts and comments or over 14 watching Joe start as a niner?

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Both hits knocked him out cold. Brady is not a physical guy, he's not fast, he's not nimble, he's not especially challenging. It's less likely he would maintain his health in prior eras. Joe is the smaller guy, but a little tougher out on the football field. Brady has unmatched durability, partly a result of avoiding contact.

I think that if Joe had a chance to where Uggs and feel the comfort of them, feeling above everyone and get too relaxed from the elegant feeling of wearing them, he too might cry to refs every time he was tapped, bumped or hit

brady is one of the toughest QB ever. and he wears uggs. that takes balls

Indeed it does...

Originally posted by BowmanBest:
Anyone over 50 writing these posts and comments or over 14 watching Joe start as a niner?

Yep And yes I am over 50 and saw every game Joe started. Mostly in section 24 on the 50 yard line. I am not an expert but I can at least say Ive seen them both play a lot of football.

But seriously, I am not in the camp that Brady OR Joe is the GOAT without question. I am simply in the camp that it isnt a slam dunk that Joe is. It is so difficult to compare eras. It would be stupid to say that Joe wouldnt be able to do well with the speed of todays game just like it is stupid to say that Brady wouldnt have been able to survive the toughness of Joes time. Neither can be proved and neither are logical.

Joe was magnificent in his time especially in Super Bowls. I believe he was the best in his era - yes better than Marino or Elway. I also believe that Brady is the best of the past 15 years - better than Manning. But I also think its impossible to say which of these 2 great players is the GOAT.

Why do you not say Rogers?

as far as ability goes aaron rodgers are top 3 i've seen. over montana and brady.

but yeah QB isn't just about throwing the football. leadership and intangibles are critical. rodgers never had it like montana and brady.


and also montana was never asked to throw the ball 50 times and win the ball. and yes the era is a big part of it, but there's a guy named dan marino who threw for 4800+ yards and 48tds in a season. and 44tds. so the 'era' argument is flawed. it wasn't the era. it's more of the style of the game where teams tend to run the ball more because QB wasn't as important.

brady easily has much bigger role in a win than montana. that can't be argued or disputed.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheNef77:
Let Brady get hit by Suh and Justin Houston the way Montana got lit up in the 80s. Joe could thrive in today's game. Brady wouldn't last in Joe's era.

And how do you know he wouldnt last? Brady is 6 4 and 225. Joe was 6 2 and 200. Saying Brady wouldnt have lasted in that era is ridiculous.

Dan Marino started 16 games 8 of 9 years from 84-92. Elway was hardly ever hurt. Brett Favre started over 200 consecutive starts in which almost all were in "Joes era". Perhaps it wasnt so much the era but the fact that Joe was pretty darn fragile and a guy who was knocked out of 2 playoff games.

You ever see Brady with his shirt off? He can't be anywhere near 225, more like 210 even if he is 6'4". Kap is 225 at the same height. Do they look the same to you?

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheNef77:
Let Brady get hit by Suh and Justin Houston the way Montana got lit up in the 80s. Joe could thrive in today's game. Brady wouldn't last in Joe's era.

And how do you know he wouldnt last? Brady is 6 4 and 225. Joe was 6 2 and 200. Saying Brady wouldnt have lasted in that era is ridiculous.

Dan Marino started 16 games 8 of 9 years from 84-92. Elway was hardly ever hurt. Brett Favre started over 200 consecutive starts in which almost all were in "Joes era". Perhaps it wasnt so much the era but the fact that Joe was pretty darn fragile and a guy who was knocked out of 2 playoff games.

You ever see Brady with his shirt off? He can't be anywhere near 225, more like 210 even if he is 6'4". Kap is 225 at the same height. Do they look the same to you?

this is most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. talk about the lack of knowledge. drew brees is 208lb! aaron rodgers is 225lb! do you know why? most QBs workout regimen is all lower body. it's all in hips, quads, and core. brady is recently measured at 228lb.

there is a reason why deshaun watson isn't getting enough love. why? because of he is very thin at 210lb. look at RGIII. and kaep to me all upper body. and he looks much skinnier now after he changed his diet.

go look up recent brady's shot. it's all about the weight distribution.

not the greatest angle but brady is tall. i'm sure montana probably lost 1/2 inch or so. but still brady is a tall dude. he was measured at 6ft 4 3/8

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by BowmanBest:
Anyone over 50 writing these posts and comments or over 14 watching Joe start as a niner?

Yep And yes I am over 50 and saw every game Joe started. Mostly in section 24 on the 50 yard line. I am not an expert but I can at least say Ive seen them both play a lot of football.

But seriously, I am not in the camp that Brady OR Joe is the GOAT without question. I am simply in the camp that it isnt a slam dunk that Joe is. It is so difficult to compare eras. It would be stupid to say that Joe wouldnt be able to do well with the speed of todays game just like it is stupid to say that Brady wouldnt have been able to survive the toughness of Joes time. Neither can be proved and neither are logical.

Joe was magnificent in his time especially in Super Bowls. I believe he was the best in his era - yes better than Marino or Elway. I also believe that Brady is the best of the past 15 years - better than Manning. But I also think its impossible to say which of these 2 great players is the GOAT.

There have been a number of great quarterbacks to play in the Super Bowl, but of them all, Joe Montana is the best. He played in the big game four times, going a perfect 4-0 with some absolutely unbelievable stats. In his four trips, Montana never had a passer rating below 100.0. He never threw an interception, had 11 touchdown passes and two rushing touchdowns, finishing with a career passer rating of 127.8 in the Super Bowl – the highest of any quarterback. He may not have the volume of records that Brady holds from his six trips (completions, attempts, yards), but Montana's numbers are far better, particularly in an era that wasn't as pass-heavy as it is now