Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by McClusky:

Originally posted by midrdan:
Brady is a great QB but I wouldn't choose him over Montana in a do or die situation. And to me the stats are meaningless if you're not clutch.

There are a lot of good arguments for Montana over Brady, but a notion that clutch is the deciding factor is not a good one. Brady has 3 4th quarter game winning drives in SB's to his credit, and currently sits 2nd all time in game winning drives and 4th quarter comebacks.

I think it's reasonable to take Joe in a do or die situation, but it's not Joe is clutch and Brady isn't.

I concur. Some in here want to make the claim that Joe is better because he finished off a SB with a game winning TD instead of game winning fgs. Well, first of all it was only in ONE SB. There were no other clutch 4th quarter moments in the others. Secondly, Brady did have 3 4th quarter comebacks in SBs where he just needed FGs in the end. Two of those needed drives with barely over a minute on the clock. So, clutch is not a fair or sensible argument at all.

It's not just SBs man. The Catch. 28 points down in the 4th quarter on the road in Philly after having been sacked six times. Coming back from back surgery to win two rings. Fending off a HOFer pining to the media every week to replace him.

Everything about Joe was "come back kid" - the guy frigging led a SB winning drive having a panic attack.

What will Brady be remembered for? The rings and the records are impressive but nothing signature stands out to me, really. I mean other than losing a perfect season in the SB.

HOFers ... how many did Montana play with? Rice Lott and Dean? Brady played with Vinatieri, Moss and Bruschi. Roger Craig? Corey Dillon. John Taylor? Wes Walker. Brent Jones? Gronk. Lott? Harrison. Turner? Bruschi.

You guys loving Brady act like it would be easier to win consistently before the salary cap era. It wasn't. Teams were loaded. You act like playing the Bills now twice a year is somehow harder for the Pats than it was when the Bills could keep Kelly and Thomas and Reed and those guys. I mean that team has more HOFers than the 49ers did and they didn't win one SB.

I agree with all of the above. I stated in a previous post that part of the problem is that people reduce Montana's legacy to just the Super Bowls. Winning Super Bowls, four no less, is not a small accomplishment, but Joe has some HOF worthy credentials outside of the Super Bowl wins. He dominated an era in the NFL when there were several other dominant teams around that won year in and out. I mentioned the Philadelphia game in 1989 in my earliest post as did you (my favorite Montana game by the way). There was taking the Chiefs and beating the 49ers. Almost getting the Chiefs to a Super Bowl. Winning a National Championship at Notre Dame. His final college game in the Cotton Bowl. The comeback verses the Saints in 1980. We can go on and on.

Basically as many have already alluded to if the game is on the line and your life depends on it and you have a 2 minute drill as your only chance and you need a TD...You summon Montana to lead the team to victory.

Originally posted by Constantine:

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by Constantine:

Patriots never would've won vs the Rams in that SB unless they cheated... and yes its true

niners would've never won anything if they didn't draft montana. let's stay focused on the topic. montana's legacy is not secured. not at all. brady has passed montana. in fact he passed him few years ago.

that comment was added to my previous statement above bro.

Which makes it no less absurd.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by Constantine:

http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/103029-tim-ryan-casts-his-vote-montana-brady-debate/

this is how I've felt for years... and stand by the facts ... Montana played football in a time when you really got hit, and look at what he has done. Now QB'S are protected if a player leads with his helment ... Totally agree ... today records are being broken in record time bc how easy it is for QB and WR can open but not suffer for the catch like back in the day. I have laid aside my Ninerror loyalty and have made a fair choice on this Montana VA Brady. Brady and his coaches have been caught multi times cheating... Montana zero... As of now Montana is still top dog

again, today's players are bigger and stronger, so when you get hit today it probably hurts more. and brady is a pocket passer. he ain't michael vick or RGIII.

montana threw to jerry rice who used stickum. and if you ever followed deflategate, it's been debunked by the science. and when did brady was part of a spygate? that's coaches doing and both jimmy johnson and bill cowher said that everybody taped everybody. that's no big deal. brady played with inflated ball all year and he went to superbowl this year.


let's not act like brady never got hit.








today's players will just be fine in the 80's. if peyton manning plays in the 80's he would destroy the league. players get better. they don't get worse.

Its not about whether or not Brady has been hit though. Of course hes been hit hard, he plays football. The point is Montana used to take those types of shots all the time. The culture back then was "Murder the QB. End his career." Pass rushers teed off on QB's.

Now pass rushers think about how they sack the QB, and what angle they can take to avoid a penalty. Theyve been completely neutered. As we saw with the Ahmad Brooks/Drew Brees debacle, they get fined and penalized even its legal, but just LOOKS violent.

Montana played most of his career battling injuries from getting hit. Look at all the 49ers backups who got playing time from the mid-80's through early 90's.

The only situation where Brady missed time to injury was the play where that Chiefs player fell into his legs and he was out for the year. Otherwise his career has been upright with a clean jersey.

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by SoCold:
4-0 >>>>>>>>>>>> 4/5-2

0 super bowl INT >>>>>>>>>>>> how many does Brady have?

Doesn't matter cause zero >>>>>>>>>>>>> ?

When you want a solid chance of winning in the SB, you go with Brady...

To assure a guaranteed win, you roll with Montana!

/Thread

#NuffSaid #LockThisBadBoyUp

what a ridiculous argument. it's not even funny anymore. getting to the SB is a great accomplishment. at the end of the day it's a team game. no 1 man can will himself to win a football game. somebody has to catch the ball, somebody has to block. TEAM, TEAM TEAM

At the end of the day... No INTs in SBs and 4-0 = Guaranteed >>> Solid Chance

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by Constantine:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/103029-tim-ryan-casts-his-vote-montana-brady-debate/

this is how I've felt for years... and stand by the facts ... Montana played football in a time when you really got hit, and look at what he has done. Now QB'S are protected if a player leads with his helment ... Totally agree ... today records are being broken in record time bc how easy it is for QB and WR can open but not suffer for the catch like back in the day. I have laid aside my Ninerror loyalty and have made a fair choice on this Montana VA Brady. Brady and his coaches have been caught multi times cheating... Montana zero... As of now Montana is still top dog

again, today's players are bigger and stronger, so when you get hit today it probably hurts more. and brady is a pocket passer. he ain't michael vick or RGIII.

montana threw to jerry rice who used stickum. and if you ever followed deflategate, it's been debunked by the science. and when did brady was part of a spygate? that's coaches doing and both jimmy johnson and bill cowher said that everybody taped everybody. that's no big deal. brady played with inflated ball all year and he went to superbowl this year.


let's not act like brady never got hit.








today's players will just be fine in the 80's. if peyton manning plays in the 80's he would destroy the league. players get better. they don't get worse.

Its not about whether or not Brady has been hit though. Of course hes been hit hard, he plays football. The point is Montana used to take those types of shots all the time. The culture back then was "Murder the QB. End his career." Pass rushers teed off on QB's.

Now pass rushers think about how they sack the QB, and what angle they can take to avoid a penalty. Theyve been completely neutered. As we saw with the Ahmad Brooks/Drew Brees debacle, they get fined and penalized even its legal, but just LOOKS violent.

Montana played most of his career battling injuries from getting hit. Look at all the 49ers backups who got playing time from the mid-80's through early 90's.

The only situation where Brady missed time to injury was the play where that Chiefs player fell into his legs and he was out for the year. Otherwise his career has been upright with a clean jersey.

that's so not true. let's stop fabricating the past just to make the point. and let's please stop pretending niners had such an awful oline and montana was running for his life all the time. let's please stop that. almost always montana got rid of the ball and moved the chains.

sack numbers each season

player A
15
26
20
33
22
35
12
22
34
33
29

brady
41
31
32
26
26
26
21
16
25
32
27
40
21
38
15
12
19



ya'll make it sound like montana got sacked 100 times. i'm so fed up with you old school people thinking everything was so much better in the past.

i guess you guys should discredit sacks like this. i'm sure aldon smith is no man compared to 80's real men.

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by Constantine:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/103029-tim-ryan-casts-his-vote-montana-brady-debate/

this is how I've felt for years... and stand by the facts ... Montana played football in a time when you really got hit, and look at what he has done. Now QB'S are protected if a player leads with his helment ... Totally agree ... today records are being broken in record time bc how easy it is for QB and WR can open but not suffer for the catch like back in the day. I have laid aside my Ninerror loyalty and have made a fair choice on this Montana VA Brady. Brady and his coaches have been caught multi times cheating... Montana zero... As of now Montana is still top dog

again, today's players are bigger and stronger, so when you get hit today it probably hurts more. and brady is a pocket passer. he ain't michael vick or RGIII.

montana threw to jerry rice who used stickum. and if you ever followed deflategate, it's been debunked by the science. and when did brady was part of a spygate? that's coaches doing and both jimmy johnson and bill cowher said that everybody taped everybody. that's no big deal. brady played with inflated ball all year and he went to superbowl this year.


let's not act like brady never got hit.



today's players will just be fine in the 80's. if peyton manning plays in the 80's he would destroy the league. players get better. they don't get worse.

Hahaha such asinine logic. If anything today's players hit less hard than players of the 80's because of their superior and state of the art shock absorbing pads, helmets, and other equipment.

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by Constantine:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/103029-tim-ryan-casts-his-vote-montana-brady-debate/

this is how I've felt for years... and stand by the facts ... Montana played football in a time when you really got hit, and look at what he has done. Now QB'S are protected if a player leads with his helment ... Totally agree ... today records are being broken in record time bc how easy it is for QB and WR can open but not suffer for the catch like back in the day. I have laid aside my Ninerror loyalty and have made a fair choice on this Montana VA Brady. Brady and his coaches have been caught multi times cheating... Montana zero... As of now Montana is still top dog

again, today's players are bigger and stronger, so when you get hit today it probably hurts more. and brady is a pocket passer. he ain't michael vick or RGIII.

montana threw to jerry rice who used stickum. and if you ever followed deflategate, it's been debunked by the science. and when did brady was part of a spygate? that's coaches doing and both jimmy johnson and bill cowher said that everybody taped everybody. that's no big deal. brady played with inflated ball all year and he went to superbowl this year.


let's not act like brady never got hit.








today's players will just be fine in the 80's. if peyton manning plays in the 80's he would destroy the league. players get better. they don't get worse.

true, but, this era has made the QB pretty much untouchable. can't hit above the pads, can't hit at the knees or below, i'm sure it's not as bad as it was in the 80-90s without those rules.

but i still agree with most of what you said. especially the cheating part.

Originally postOriginally posted by natediaz:

again, today's players are bigger and stronger, so when you get hit today it probably hurts more. and brady is a pocket passer. he ain't michael vick or RGIII.

lHahaha such asinine logic. If anything today's players hit less hard than players of the 80's because of their superior and state of the art shock absorbing pads, helmets, and other equipment.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I grew up in the 90s so I remember a fading Montana, Steve Young with a loaded team finally getting it done, wishing Aikman would die, and facing Favre the 49er killer.

Truthfully, I can only rate QBs from the late 90's forward. Its kind of silly to say that as a 10 year old or something you can judge QBs. For me, only considering guys that played into the 2000s and beyond, my top 10:

1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Peyton Manning
4. Drew Brees
5. Kurt Warner
6. Brett Favre
7. Ben Roethlisberger
8. Michael Vick
9. Russell Wilson
10. Cam Newton

If Matt Ryan is able to pull off a SB win, I'd probably bump him on the list over Cam.

I agree. Or how about some in here that try to compare and grade players that played before they were born. I cant compare a guy like Bart Starr, John Unitas, Otto Graham, or Sonny Jurgenson to the guys of the 80s or now because I wasnt old enough to see them in their prime years. Sure, I can read about them or see some highlights but I cant truly understand the difference.

If someone was born in the 80s and 2 or 3 years old when Joe won his last SB how on earth can they TRULY be able to compare Joe to Brady. Answer.. they cant. History books and stats are not enough.

Rules may have been different but it didnt keep Marino, Elway, and Favre among others from virtually missing no games during their careers. They were similar to Brady in size and were pocket passers. This is why its simply ridiculous to suggest that Brady somehow couldnt have been great and have lasted in the 80s. Joe did miss a lot of games but that in no way means Tom Brady would have.

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by Constantine:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/103029-tim-ryan-casts-his-vote-montana-brady-debate/

this is how I've felt for years... and stand by the facts ... Montana played football in a time when you really got hit, and look at what he has done. Now QB'S are protected if a player leads with his helment ... Totally agree ... today records are being broken in record time bc how easy it is for QB and WR can open but not suffer for the catch like back in the day. I have laid aside my Ninerror loyalty and have made a fair choice on this Montana VA Brady. Brady and his coaches have been caught multi times cheating... Montana zero... As of now Montana is still top dog

again, today's players are bigger and stronger, so when you get hit today it probably hurts more. and brady is a pocket passer. he ain't michael vick or RGIII.

montana threw to jerry rice who used stickum. and if you ever followed deflategate, it's been debunked by the science. and when did brady was part of a spygate? that's coaches doing and both jimmy johnson and bill cowher said that everybody taped everybody. that's no big deal. brady played with inflated ball all year and he went to superbowl this year.


let's not act like brady never got hit.



today's players will just be fine in the 80's. if peyton manning plays in the 80's he would destroy the league. players get better. they don't get worse.

Hahaha such asinine logic. If anything today's players hit less hard than players of the 80's because of their superior and state of the art shock absorbing pads, helmets, and other equipment.

is that why we have more injuries than ever before? helmet doesn't protect you. helmet becomes the ultimate weapon. players launch because of the helmet. if they didn't have a helmet, maybe they won't launch like that and try to protect their pretty face.

and there's a big difference between a 6ft 2 240lb guy who runs 4.7 coming at you vs. 6ft 5 290lb who runs same 4.7. it's called physics.

and by your logic, 70's steelers are so much better than any 80's teams including any niners because hits in 70's weren't even hits. they could close line you they could all kinds of crazy stuff.

i have no respect for any teams in 70's because the whole era was roid rage. it's barbaric and uncivilized. thankfully football has grown into a legit sport.

this whole argument is just like my other favorite sports MMA. back then there were no rules. you could pretty much do anything including groin shots. but today's fighters will destroy them even though rules are softer. why? because the game has evolved. because athletes evolved.

football continues to evolve. it's the multi billion dollar sports. and it's not just for a tough guys. it's a cerebral game. game is much smarter now then ever before.

Montana would've won multiple SBs just off the BS Tuck Rule, it's not even funny

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Basically as many have already alluded to if the game is on the line and your life depends on it and you have a 2 minute drill as your only chance and you need a TD...You summon Montana to lead the team to victory.

but but but brady have more game winning drives than montana. 2 min left to go and who do i have? rice or bunch of small white dudes? that's a big factor.

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by Constantine:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/103029-tim-ryan-casts-his-vote-montana-brady-debate/

this is how I've felt for years... and stand by the facts ... Montana played football in a time when you really got hit, and look at what he has done. Now QB'S are protected if a player leads with his helment ... Totally agree ... today records are being broken in record time bc how easy it is for QB and WR can open but not suffer for the catch like back in the day. I have laid aside my Ninerror loyalty and have made a fair choice on this Montana VA Brady. Brady and his coaches have been caught multi times cheating... Montana zero... As of now Montana is still top dog

again, today's players are bigger and stronger, so when you get hit today it probably hurts more. and brady is a pocket passer. he ain't michael vick or RGIII.

montana threw to jerry rice who used stickum. and if you ever followed deflategate, it's been debunked by the science. and when did brady was part of a spygate? that's coaches doing and both jimmy johnson and bill cowher said that everybody taped everybody. that's no big deal. brady played with inflated ball all year and he went to superbowl this year.


let's not act like brady never got hit.



today's players will just be fine in the 80's. if peyton manning plays in the 80's he would destroy the league. players get better. they don't get worse.

Hahaha such asinine logic. If anything today's players hit less hard than players of the 80's because of their superior and state of the art shock absorbing pads, helmets, and other equipment.

is that why we have more injuries than ever before? helmet doesn't protect you. helmet becomes the ultimate weapon. players launch because of the helmet. if they didn't have a helmet, maybe they won't launch like that and try to protect their pretty face.

and there's a big difference between a 6ft 2 240lb guy who runs 4.7 coming at you vs. 6ft 5 290lb who runs same 4.7. it's called physics.

and by your logic, 70's steelers are so much better than any 80's teams including any niners because hits in 70's weren't even hits. they could close line you they could all kinds of crazy stuff.

i have no respect for any teams in 70's because the whole era was roid rage. it's barbaric and uncivilized. thankfully football has grown into a legit sport.

this whole argument is just like my other favorite sports MMA. back then there were no rules. you could pretty much do anything including groin shots. but today's fighters will destroy them even though rules are softer. why? because the game has evolved. because athletes evolved.

football continues to evolve. it's the multi billion dollar sports. and it's not just for a tough guys. it's a cerebral game. game is much smarter now then ever before.

this dude is killing it