Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by natediaz:
this isn't my theory. the game is faster now then before. that's pretty much factual. i was reading article about it. it's the history of sports in general. maybe there were better RBs running the show because run game was much more emphasized back then. but as far as QB goes they have to get better because it's a passing league. it's the simple truth.

and yes, bigger doesn't always mean better. but it has so much more advantages in the game of football. like i said i follow college football religiously. i don't want jourdan lewis who's 5ft 10 near my team. i don't want 5ft 10 CB anymore after having how successful richard sherman has been. i want 6ft 1+ guy with a long arm great hips. for DE i really hate undersized DEs. i just can't trust them. first they get banged up so much more. and they just come and go. yeah JJ watt is a freak, but i want a guy who's 6ft 5 280lb+ with really long arm. because LTs are growing too. and they are freaky athletic. i mean 6ft 7 310lb running sub 4.9?

and WRs. ideally i want 3 different body type. i want a shift slot WR, a crafty #2 WR who is versatile, and #1 WR like megatron/julio jones. that's ideal for me. and TE better block and become dominant. after seeing guys like gronk, prime graham, i want TE to be a major part of the game especially when my team refuses spend draft picks on the OL.

Lolz game evolves and is recycled.

1995 Detroit Lions

WR Herman Moore, 6-4, 215 (100+ catches)
WR Brett Perriman, 5-9, 180 (100+ catches)
WR Johnnie Morton, 6-0, 190 (44 catches, 8 tds)

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
You're thinking too technically here. Humans aren't machines. And brain power doesn't magically get 1000x more powerful in only 20 years. The only thing changing are advances in nutrition, equipment, and training. Level the playing field here and it's a different scenario. Heck even Warren Moon > 75% of the QB's today. Dude was a physical freak who could make all the throws with a flick of his wrist and he played what 18-20 seasons combined in the CFL/NFL?

The 3 things you listed made big leaps and bounds from the mid 60's to late 70's, the difference since then is not that drastic. A lot of work out equipment, nutrition and training regimes are the same as they were 35 years ago. I look at the supplements kids take these days that workout, they have the same ingredients in them that I got from the town health food store in 1979. Just went to a football equipment website, there was only one thing that wasn't around in 1979 or I never saw one a thing called a tackle wheel, but you could have done the same thing back in the day tackling a rolling truck tire. Also I never saw a tackling dummy that mimicked a QB holding a football, we just practiced against a live human. Pretty sure a lot of things look the same in a weight room. A lot of these new fancy machines don't work any muscles you could not have worked with 1970 weight room equipment. I would say the big difference with all the machines is safety.

You left out the biggest one, medicine. Now medicine is a different story, a knee injury that would have ended a career 35 years ago might be reduced down to 6-8 weeks down time and back on the field next year. 35 years ago Tony Romo would have never been able to play the same season as that back injury if the year was 1980. There are machines now that assist in rehabbing that weren't around 35 years ago, not only are injuries repaired better and faster, the long term effects are minimized.

I think next time a person makes claims about nutrition and training being so advanced since Montana first hit the NFL list what you could train, eat or drink now that you could not in 1979.

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Steroids / PEDs weren't as big an issue back in those days (Joe's era) when players weren't bigger / faster than today's players. TE's, FBs/RBs are more developed to help olinemen block these bigger / faster defenders, as well. Science / drugs have also improved significantly. Players can heal faster and get stronger. But that would exclude Montana somehow (you wish)

you gotta be kidding me. entire 70's steelers rosters were roid heads. many of them are struggling badly and dead! NFL's steroid era was definitely in the 70's throughout 80's. it really wasn't a big deal back then because game was more exciting with full of roid rage. jack tatum, mean joe greene, and etc. all of them were known users. there's a major documentary about it. and not only steroids, cocaine was a major. lawrence taylor was a major crackhead. i

and it's not just football. your ex governor arnold openly admited the era was very steroid friendly. and don't forget WWF. pretty much all the wrestlers who wrestled in the 80's are dead because of steroid & pain killer abuse. i know steroid use will never be stopped (shawn merriman for ex.) but at least there are more rules and regulation then now then ever before.

You have facts that the whole era / most of the players were more roided out / jacked up on PEDs than this day and age? I think not.

I don't have proof in the pudding either, but humans don't just get bigger / faster and heal ridiculously better all of a sudden because the nutrients in food (which is the total opposite to be honest) are more better than ever. You mentioned or alluded it yourself... players are bigger, stronger and faster these days. I'm only talking about football players (screw everything else, let's keep it on football).

Just because there are more rules and regulations doesn't mean that the cheaters / crime doesn't find loopholes and get better at masking / getting around the rules. Let's not forget, players / coaches get smarter and craftier in all this evolution. It's in the news. Players still (probably more than ever) get caught.

Btw, crack and coc (powder) depletes nutrients, which will make bones (MUCH) more accessible to injury. Those type (recreational) drugs typically won't make a player perform better or focus like a guy on Adderall, etc. If anything, player's who took those (recreational) drugs only hurt their potential / play during the game (if they were on it on game day).

Originally posted by LVJay:
You have facts that the whole era / most of the players were more roided out / jacked up on PEDs than this day and age? I think not.

I don't have proof in the pudding either, but humans don't just get bigger / faster and heal ridiculously better all of a sudden because the nutrients in food (which is the total opposite to be honest) are more better than ever. You mentioned or alluded it yourself... players are bigger, stronger and faster these days. I'm only talking about football players (screw everything else, let's keep it on football).

Just because there are more rules and regulations doesn't mean that the cheaters / crime doesn't find loopholes and get better at masking / getting around the rules. Let's not forget, players / coaches get smarter and craftier in all this evolution. It's in the news. Players still (probably more than ever) get caught.

Just from what I have read as I have no medical background isn't it true with peds is many need a specific test to detect them? I believe once a system of testing for particular substance is discovered the inventor of said ped can alter it to beat the test without limiting it's effectiveness. It becomes a cat and mouse game and the testers are always a step behind the cheaters. I was a weight room junkie from the ages of 13-39 back injuries put me out of business. I never touched steroids or HGH but I knew some admitted users and ex users who candidly explained their experiences. Gain 25-30 pounds of muscle in 3 months was the common claim, even with great genetics and hard work that would take at least two years if you were young, the same height and it was all muscle with the same body fat. I see too many college guys grow muscles over night that defy anything you could do naturally some get caught some don't. Brian Cushing was a good example I think it was between his Soph and Jr year at USC about 30 pounds of defined muscle appeared very quickly, he didn't pee dirty till a couple years into his NFL career and was only suspended once. You would be naive to think he only took peds for a brief time and got caught.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by LVJay:
You have facts that the whole era / most of the players were more roided out / jacked up on PEDs than this day and age? I think not.

I don't have proof in the pudding either, but humans don't just get bigger / faster and heal ridiculously better all of a sudden because the nutrients in food (which is the total opposite to be honest) are more better than ever. You mentioned or alluded it yourself... players are bigger, stronger and faster these days. I'm only talking about football players (screw everything else, let's keep it on football).

Just because there are more rules and regulations doesn't mean that the cheaters / crime doesn't find loopholes and get better at masking / getting around the rules. Let's not forget, players / coaches get smarter and craftier in all this evolution. It's in the news. Players still (probably more than ever) get caught.

Just from what I have read as I have no medical background isn't it true with peds is many need a specific test to detect them? I believe once a system of testing for particular substance is discovered the inventor of said ped can alter it to beat the test without limiting it's effectiveness. It becomes a cat and mouse game and the testers are always a step behind the cheaters. I was a weight room junkie from the ages of 13-39 back injuries put me out of business. I never touched steroids or HGH but I knew some admitted users and ex users who candidly explained their experiences. Gain 25-30 pounds of muscle in 3 months was the common claim, even with great genetics and hard work that would take at least two years if you were young, the same height and it was all muscle with the same body fat. I see too many college guys grow muscles over night that defy anything you could do naturally some get caught some don't. Brian Cushing was a good example I think it was between his Soph and Jr year at USC about 30 pounds of defined muscle appeared very quickly, he didn't pee dirty till a couple years into his NFL career and was only suspended once. You would be naive to think he only took peds for a brief time and got caught.

This is a fact. #WhoIsLanceArmstrong. Eventually, the perpetrator will find a way around it, and eventually, the testers will catch up later (not sooner).

It's not (never was) in the NFL's best interest to test all the time / nail everyone. Not only is it expensive and time consuming, but it will make the game less explosive. Viewers love watching fast / explosive players, guys all roided out slamming into each other, and unfortunately, viewers love to see guys get hurt. Ratings are off the charts compared to days of old. You have to be blind and/or totally biased to believe roids / PEDs are not more prevalent these days than any other era.

NFL does not have an extensive HGH testing system in place. They don't want it, it would serve to ruin part of their product. Don't kid yourselves, if a league doesn't have an HGH system then the players will be using HGH, HGH alone is the modern breakthrough in doping.

Originally posted by jcashen87:
NFL does not have an extensive HGH testing system in place. They don't want it, it would serve to ruin part of their product. Don't kid yourselves, if a league doesn't have an HGH system then the players will be using HGH, HGH alone is the modern breakthrough in doping.

This!

When players' (these days) necks are as big as players' (20 / 30 something years ago) waistlines... wtf gives

Originally posted by jcashen87:
NFL does not have an extensive HGH testing system in place. They don't want it, it would serve to ruin part of their product. Don't kid yourselves, if a league doesn't have an HGH system then the players will be using HGH, HGH alone is the modern breakthrough in doping.

Pretty sure a lot of there testing for Peds is window dressing along with the fact the cheaters are ahead of the testers. I am sure some things never change. I have not personally known a juicer for a couple decades, at the time, ill gotten gains from steroids vanished almost as fast as they appeared if a person stops using. I would think HGH would be the same. The fact Brian Cushing got huge overnight at USC then gets busted and serves a 4 game suspension in the NFL a half dozen year ago without looking any smaller or less defined tells me he never stopped using. A good example of someone who stopped using Peds was Barry Bonds, not long after retiring from baseball he was shown in a cycling outfit on a bicycle, he had miraculously shrunk back to the size that he was when he was a Pittsburgh Pirate. Naturally gained muscle doesn't disappear fast like that.

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by jcashen87:
NFL does not have an extensive HGH testing system in place. They don't want it, it would serve to ruin part of their product. Don't kid yourselves, if a league doesn't have an HGH system then the players will be using HGH, HGH alone is the modern breakthrough in doping.

This!

When players' (these days) necks are as big as players' (20 / 30 something years ago) waistlines... wtf gives

I think you call them trapezius muscles, the part of them next to the neck seem to be huge on juicers, that one is a dead giveaway.

The dude never choked in a SB, period... not even when down by 3 points to a damn good Bengals' team with a dominant defense. When you orchestrate a (come-from-behind) game winning drive in the final minutes and recognize a fat, funny guy in the stands.. who does that?!!

https://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016306.html

#NobodyButMontana

Originally posted by LVJay:
The dude never choked in a SB, period... not even when down by 3 points to a damn good Bengals' team with a dominant defense. When you orchestrate a (come-from-behind) game winning drive in the final minutes and recognize a fat, funny guy in the stands.. who does that?!!

https://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016306.html

#NobodyButMontana

Ya, right now it's 1.a and 1.b. If Brady wins a 5th, discussion over. Otherwise, stop hating on teams that are going for 6 SBs, just because they pass our total. If you care that much about SBs, than you should care about Brady winning 5.

And you guys should just stop posting, Natediaz made all of you look bad. Give it up already and don't be so damn afraid to admit somebody else is right and you're wrong.

Originally posted by LVJay:

The dude never choked in a SB, period... not even when down by 3 points to a damn good Bengals' team with a dominant defense. When you orchestrate a (come-from-behind) game winning drive in the final minutes and recognize a fat, funny guy in the stands.. who does that?!!

https://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016306.html

#NobodyButMontana

Ok. So Montana is the greatest super bowl qb. Brady is the best qb.

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:

Originally posted by natediaz:
this isn't my theory. the game is faster now then before. that's pretty much factual. i was reading article about it. it's the history of sports in general. maybe there were better RBs running the show because run game was much more emphasized back then. but as far as QB goes they have to get better because it's a passing league. it's the simple truth.

and yes, bigger doesn't always mean better. but it has so much more advantages in the game of football. like i said i follow college football religiously. i don't want jourdan lewis who's 5ft 10 near my team. i don't want 5ft 10 CB anymore after having how successful richard sherman has been. i want 6ft 1+ guy with a long arm great hips. for DE i really hate undersized DEs. i just can't trust them. first they get banged up so much more. and they just come and go. yeah JJ watt is a freak, but i want a guy who's 6ft 5 280lb+ with really long arm. because LTs are growing too. and they are freaky athletic. i mean 6ft 7 310lb running sub 4.9?

and WRs. ideally i want 3 different body type. i want a shift slot WR, a crafty #2 WR who is versatile, and #1 WR like megatron/julio jones. that's ideal for me. and TE better block and become dominant. after seeing guys like gronk, prime graham, i want TE to be a major part of the game especially when my team refuses spend draft picks on the OL.

Lolz game evolves and is recycled.

1995 Detroit Lions

WR Herman Moore, 6-4, 215 (100+ catches)
WR Brett Perriman, 5-9, 180 (100+ catches)
WR Johnnie Morton, 6-0, 190 (44 catches, 8 tds)

mid 90's are where we started to really see teams wanting bigger players. herman moore was 'huge' back then. why don't you post entire weight and height of 1986 niners? and compared it to 2016 niners? because i was comparing the 80's and 2010's. 30 years is a long time.

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Steroids / PEDs weren't as big an issue back in those days (Joe's era) when players weren't bigger / faster than today's players. TE's, FBs/RBs are more developed to help olinemen block these bigger / faster defenders, as well. Science / drugs have also improved significantly. Players can heal faster and get stronger. But that would exclude Montana somehow (you wish)

you gotta be kidding me. entire 70's steelers rosters were roid heads. many of them are struggling badly and dead! NFL's steroid era was definitely in the 70's throughout 80's. it really wasn't a big deal back then because game was more exciting with full of roid rage. jack tatum, mean joe greene, and etc. all of them were known users. there's a major documentary about it. and not only steroids, cocaine was a major. lawrence taylor was a major crackhead. i

and it's not just football. your ex governor arnold openly admited the era was very steroid friendly. and don't forget WWF. pretty much all the wrestlers who wrestled in the 80's are dead because of steroid & pain killer abuse. i know steroid use will never be stopped (shawn merriman for ex.) but at least there are more rules and regulation then now then ever before.

You have facts that the whole era / most of the players were more roided out / jacked up on PEDs than this day and age? I think not.

I don't have proof in the pudding either, but humans don't just get bigger / faster and heal ridiculously better all of a sudden because the nutrients in food (which is the total opposite to be honest) are more better than ever. You mentioned or alluded it yourself... players are bigger, stronger and faster these days. I'm only talking about football players (screw everything else, let's keep it on football).

Just because there are more rules and regulations doesn't mean that the cheaters / crime doesn't find loopholes and get better at masking / getting around the rules. Let's not forget, players / coaches get smarter and craftier in all this evolution. It's in the news. Players still (probably more than ever) get caught.

Btw, crack and coc (powder) depletes nutrients, which will make bones (MUCH) more accessible to injury. Those type (recreational) drugs typically won't make a player perform better or focus like a guy on Adderall, etc. If anything, player's who took those (recreational) drugs only hurt their potential / play during the game (if they were on it on game day).

it's well documented.
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3832996
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/study-finds-1-5-nfl-players-80s-used-steroids
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/curtain-shame-steelers-dynasty-asterisk-juice-story-true-article-1.597935
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_use_in_American_football

and it's not really even their fault. they didn't really know much about it. and the league didn't start testing it since late 80's. so it really wasn't an unfair advantage because pretty much every teams had roiders.

and yeah we don't know what % of players used steroids. i'm sure it's much higher than right now.