Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by LVJay:
I've already let my opinion be known on Montana and what I feel about Brady, especially if he wins this next SB (greatest all time QB)... Montana being the best in SBs and would be my choice / GOAT if I had to choose one to play in SB in order to guarantee the best chance of winning, period.

But I have to question you a little here... "this is the typical montana fan post which i have zero respect for. it's uninformed, full of hate"

Your love for Brady is blindly / grotesquely imminent to the point that it seems you don't really have any "respect" for the accomplishments Joe made throughout his career. Perhaps, down deep inside, you are "full of hate" and "not understanding" Montana's greatness Please correct me if I'm wrong...

I have posts in here stating my respect for Brady and what I feel about him (being greatest of all time), therefore, you know I'm not totally biased or hating on the man. I appreciated him ever since he beat the Rams in his first SB and took care of Seattle in his last SB.

Now, please show me some of your posts that shows some appreciation of the Legendary 49er who is Joe Montana, please. Do you have any? I am not sure, but if you can point them out to me (which posts). I can point out mines and others (respect for Brady), can you point out yours. I'm just curious.

Or do you feel like I need to go back to every post before this one just to find out (that's kinda petty, and I wouldn't waste my time since it would prove my point)... are you really a fan of Joe Montana's and the 49ers or just a Brady fan Serious question / not being sarcastic...

Your post seems so earnest I feel I have to tell you that you aren't likely to get an answer for at least a week.

L0L, I wouldn't doubt it.

I'm just kinda wondering why some posters, who are 49ers fans (supposedly), are quick to snuggle down on Brady, and at the same time, not point out the significance of Joe's accomplishments [no INTs in SBs, 4-0 in SBs, and how hard that was to accomplish when the rules obviously (fact not opinion) helped the defense in those days].

I'm not even really a part of that era since I was still a kid during Joe's last SB run. But history will even tell us that the NFC was more dominant then and just to get to the playoffs / SB was taxing (Bears, Cowboys, Giants crazy, dominant defenses).

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
He is not a 49ers fan or really a Montana fan. He has said he is a Seahawks fan. Having read most of his posts he has been complimentary for the most part of Joe but just doesnt believe he is the GOAT like he believes Brady is. There is certainly nothing wrong with this opinion and one, I believe, that most football fans would share.

I have to say that there are a couple of 49ers fans in here that have said more head scratching things than Nate IMO. As for me,I think there are valid points to be made for either guy as GOAT and neither are slam dunk choices. SBs? Yes Joe is the best but for overall peformance in all games its hard to not say that Brady is at least on a par with Montana.

Lol, man thanks for that, Ninerjohn. Thanks a lot!!

I'm not even sure, anymore, if debating with him has any meaning... not once (I think) has he even truly rationalized with one of my replies to his posts. I may have been caught up in a circle jerk of words, excuses, unnecessary links and what not. It's all good tho, I've been quite entertained, nonetheless

Originally posted by LVJay:
L0L, I wouldn't doubt it.

I'm just kinda wondering why some posters, who are 49ers fans (supposedly), are quick to snuggle down on Brady, and at the same time, not point out the significance of Joe's accomplishments [no INTs in SBs, 4-0 in SBs, and how hard that was to accomplish when the rules obviously (fact not opinion) helped the defense in those days].

I'm not even really a part of that era since I was still a kid during Joe's last SB run. But history will even tell us that the NFC was more dominant then and just to get to the playoffs / SB was taxing (Bears, Cowboys, Giants crazy, dominant defenses).

I saw every game Montana played and totally agree that Joe was special in the SuperBowls. But, so was Brady to be fair with 3 4th quarter comebacks, 4 wins, and 3 MVPS. Also, Joe had several failures in the playoffs and those cannot just be completely ignored as if those games didnt matter and only SBs did.

You can still be a huge Niners fan and Montana fan and recognize that the difference between the 2 is no small that an argument can easily be made for either guy. That certainly isnt "snuggling down on Brady" as you call it. It is recognizing the greatness of both players having seen them both play with our own eyes at their best.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
You're thinking too technically here. Humans aren't machines. And brain power doesn't magically get 1000x more powerful in only 20 years. The only thing changing are advances in nutrition, equipment, and training. Level the playing field here and it's a different scenario. Heck even Warren Moon > 75% of the QB's today. Dude was a physical freak who could make all the throws with a flick of his wrist and he played what 18-20 seasons combined in the CFL/NFL?

The 3 things you listed made big leaps and bounds from the mid 60's to late 70's, the difference since then is not that drastic. A lot of work out equipment, nutrition and training regimes are the same as they were 35 years ago. I look at the supplements kids take these days that workout, they have the same ingredients in them that I got from the town health food store in 1979. Just went to a football equipment website, there was only one thing that wasn't around in 1979 or I never saw one a thing called a tackle wheel, but you could have done the same thing back in the day tackling a rolling truck tire. Also I never saw a tackling dummy that mimicked a QB holding a football, we just practiced against a live human. Pretty sure a lot of things look the same in a weight room. A lot of these new fancy machines don't work any muscles you could not have worked with 1970 weight room equipment. I would say the big difference with all the machines is safety.

You left out the biggest one, medicine. Now medicine is a different story, a knee injury that would have ended a career 35 years ago might be reduced down to 6-8 weeks down time and back on the field next year. 35 years ago Tony Romo would have never been able to play the same season as that back injury if the year was 1980. There are machines now that assist in rehabbing that weren't around 35 years ago, not only are injuries repaired better and faster, the long term effects are minimized.

I think next time a person makes claims about nutrition and training being so advanced since Montana first hit the NFL list what you could train, eat or drink now that you could not in 1979.

Please provide me with a summary of your training regiment including diet and supplements back from the 1970's and we'll see if it mirrors what athletes seeking an advantage go through today. And please be honest. This is one area where Brady doesn't slouch. He invests heavily in his health and diet and training and supplement usage which makes sense if he wants to play another 10 years until age 49.

Or maybe it's just what everyone is suspecting with players nowaday -- HGH.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by LVJay:
L0L, I wouldn't doubt it.

I'm just kinda wondering why some posters, who are 49ers fans (supposedly), are quick to snuggle down on Brady, and at the same time, not point out the significance of Joe's accomplishments [no INTs in SBs, 4-0 in SBs, and how hard that was to accomplish when the rules obviously (fact not opinion) helped the defense in those days].

I'm not even really a part of that era since I was still a kid during Joe's last SB run. But history will even tell us that the NFC was more dominant then and just to get to the playoffs / SB was taxing (Bears, Cowboys, Giants crazy, dominant defenses).

I saw every game Montana played and totally agree that Joe was special in the SuperBowls. But, so was Brady to be fair with 3 4th quarter comebacks, 4 wins, and 3 MVPS. Also, Joe had several failures in the playoffs and those cannot just be completely ignored as if those games didnt matter and only SBs did.

You can still be a huge Niners fan and Montana fan and recognize that the difference between the 2 is no small that an argument can easily be made for either guy. That certainly isnt "snuggling down on Brady" as you call it. It is recognizing the greatness of both players having seen them both play with our own eyes at their best.

I appreciate Brady as well, but I wouldn't consider myself, you or many others who appreciate Brady as "snuggling" ... what I meant by that was those who snuggle seem biased and quick to point out their opinion / love for the guy, but not make a case for Montana or even express any real appreciation (as if it would make their case for Brady not as significant over Montana like they make it out to be).

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
You're thinking too technically here. Humans aren't machines. And brain power doesn't magically get 1000x more powerful in only 20 years. The only thing changing are advances in nutrition, equipment, and training. Level the playing field here and it's a different scenario. Heck even Warren Moon > 75% of the QB's today. Dude was a physical freak who could make all the throws with a flick of his wrist and he played what 18-20 seasons combined in the CFL/NFL?

The 3 things you listed made big leaps and bounds from the mid 60's to late 70's, the difference since then is not that drastic. A lot of work out equipment, nutrition and training regimes are the same as they were 35 years ago. I look at the supplements kids take these days that workout, they have the same ingredients in them that I got from the town health food store in 1979. Just went to a football equipment website, there was only one thing that wasn't around in 1979 or I never saw one a thing called a tackle wheel, but you could have done the same thing back in the day tackling a rolling truck tire. Also I never saw a tackling dummy that mimicked a QB holding a football, we just practiced against a live human. Pretty sure a lot of things look the same in a weight room. A lot of these new fancy machines don't work any muscles you could not have worked with 1970 weight room equipment. I would say the big difference with all the machines is safety.

You left out the biggest one, medicine. Now medicine is a different story, a knee injury that would have ended a career 35 years ago might be reduced down to 6-8 weeks down time and back on the field next year. 35 years ago Tony Romo would have never been able to play the same season as that back injury if the year was 1980. There are machines now that assist in rehabbing that weren't around 35 years ago, not only are injuries repaired better and faster, the long term effects are minimized.

I think next time a person makes claims about nutrition and training being so advanced since Montana first hit the NFL list what you could train, eat or drink now that you could not in 1979.

Please provide me with a summary of your training regiment including diet and supplements back from the 1970's and we'll see if it mirrors what athletes seeking an advantage go through today. And please be honest. This is one area where Brady doesn't slouch. He invests heavily in his health and diet and training and supplement usage which makes sense if he wants to play another 10 years until age 49.

Or maybe it's just what everyone is suspecting with players nowaday -- HGH.

Brady is top notch when it comes to diet / nutrition and I respect his dedication to it... living a healthy lifestyle is extremely hard, especially if you don't have the cash since it is also very expensive. I firmly believe that diet / nutrition (besides genetics) has a great outcome on organs, longevity, cells, etc. and overall healthy well being.

Joe was probably on a good diet as well, but not a great one since some of his meals may have consisted of coco puffs and cocaine for breakfast

Originally posted by LVJay:


I appreciate Brady as well, but I wouldn't consider myself, you or many others who appreciate Brady as "snuggling" ... what I meant by that was those who snuggle seem biased and quick to point out their opinion / love for the guy, but not make a case for Montana or even express any real appreciation (as if it would make their case for Brady not as significant over Montana like they make it out to be).

Its always a lively debate for sure. You also have to wonder where John Elway or Peyton Manning would be in this conversation of they had been able to play for Bill Walsh or Bill Belichick for most of their careers. The efficiency and stability of the Niners and Pats organization was special and certainly helped Joe and Tom.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by LVJay:


I appreciate Brady as well, but I wouldn't consider myself, you or many others who appreciate Brady as "snuggling" ... what I meant by that was those who snuggle seem biased and quick to point out their opinion / love for the guy, but not make a case for Montana or even express any real appreciation (as if it would make their case for Brady not as significant over Montana like they make it out to be).

Its always a lively debate for sure. You also have to wonder where John Elway or Peyton Manning would be in this conversation of they had been able to play for Bill Walsh or Bill Belichick for most of their careers. The efficiency and stability of the Niners and Pats organization was special and certainly helped Joe and Tom.

Great point! I believe Elway could have easily been in this debate and I probably would have him marked as the greatest. He could have been in Joe's shoes if he had Walsh and those very good defenses we had in our SB runs. Even Marino never had a great cast around him for his entire career... I wonder what could of happen with him.

No, joe was the system and the sustem was joe. Elway would not have run it as efficiently due to temperament. Elway would not be on my list of all time greats.

Just another qb who cant handle great athleticism.


Peyton would constantly change everything. And couldnt handle the mobility required.

No improving perfection.

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
You're thinking too technically here. Humans aren't machines. And brain power doesn't magically get 1000x more powerful in only 20 years. The only thing changing are advances in nutrition, equipment, and training. Level the playing field here and it's a different scenario. Heck even Warren Moon > 75% of the QB's today. Dude was a physical freak who could make all the throws with a flick of his wrist and he played what 18-20 seasons combined in the CFL/NFL?

The 3 things you listed made big leaps and bounds from the mid 60's to late 70's, the difference since then is not that drastic. A lot of work out equipment, nutrition and training regimes are the same as they were 35 years ago. I look at the supplements kids take these days that workout, they have the same ingredients in them that I got from the town health food store in 1979. Just went to a football equipment website, there was only one thing that wasn't around in 1979 or I never saw one a thing called a tackle wheel, but you could have done the same thing back in the day tackling a rolling truck tire. Also I never saw a tackling dummy that mimicked a QB holding a football, we just practiced against a live human. Pretty sure a lot of things look the same in a weight room. A lot of these new fancy machines don't work any muscles you could not have worked with 1970 weight room equipment. I would say the big difference with all the machines is safety.

You left out the biggest one, medicine. Now medicine is a different story, a knee injury that would have ended a career 35 years ago might be reduced down to 6-8 weeks down time and back on the field next year. 35 years ago Tony Romo would have never been able to play the same season as that back injury if the year was 1980. There are machines now that assist in rehabbing that weren't around 35 years ago, not only are injuries repaired better and faster, the long term effects are minimized.

I think next time a person makes claims about nutrition and training being so advanced since Montana first hit the NFL list what you could train, eat or drink now that you could not in 1979.

Please provide me with a summary of your training regiment including diet and supplements back from the 1970's and we'll see if it mirrors what athletes seeking an advantage go through today. And please be honest. This is one area where Brady doesn't slouch. He invests heavily in his health and diet and training and supplement usage which makes sense if he wants to play another 10 years until age 49.

Or maybe it's just what everyone is suspecting with players nowaday -- HGH.

Do you realize I would have to write a book and I am serious, anyone who is serious about working out for sports where strength and other forms of physical prowess are highly important knows you constantly have to change things up. First everybody is different what works for me might not work for you. Also there is the boredom factor, who wants to do the same workout routine 6 days a week 52 weeks a year. Also it is known if you don't alter your routine you can level off frequently and stop experiencing gains. I read books written by bodybuilders of the day Arnold, Franco Columbo, Lou Ferrigno etc and combined that with what I learned from strength coaches, saw what other guys did, etc,etc. Because of injuries I did not play competitive sports past the age of 22 yet I kept up with the training till the age of 39 when back surgeries killed me off.


From 1974-2000 I was in every kind of gym imaginable, except for one of a professional sports team. All the way from a coed Family Fitness, to professional bodybuilding and boxing gyms. I didn't see one thing I could do in a gym in 2000 that I could not have replicated in 1974. If you read the ingredients on modern supplements, most of the items are found in food, they aren't magic. Most those supplements have been around for 40 years or more. So instead of me writing a thousand pages of every thing I did, I am just asking someone to point out something we have now that could not be replicated 40 years ago. The only thing you will come up with is pharmaceuticals that are against the rules that aren't detectable or the NFL doesn't want to detect them. Show me the magic workout machine that works muscles you could not work 40 years ago, you cant.

Talking heads on the radio said Brady has played in 11 AFC Championship games, I just checked that appears correct. What QB played in the second most conference championship games? Without digging around I would think Elway is up there, anybody know the answer without a bunch of research?

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
No, joe was the system and the sustem was joe. Elway would not have run it as efficiently due to temperament. Elway would not be on my list of all time greats.

Just another qb who cant handle great athleticism.


Peyton would constantly change everything. And couldnt handle the mobility required.

No improving perfection.

LMAO.

Originally posted by BobS:
Talking heads on the radio said Brady has played in 11 AFC Championship games, I just checked that appears correct. What QB played in the second most conference championship games? Without digging around I would think Elway is up there, anybody know the answer without a bunch of research?

Joe. 7 I believe

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:
And you guys should just stop posting, Natediaz made all of you look bad. Give it up already and don't be so damn afraid to admit somebody else is right and you're wrong.

Old guy John Clayton's GOAT rankings..

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18581054/greatest-quarterbacks-all-ranking-john-clayton-picks-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-best-nfl-qb-ever