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Feb 1, 2017 at 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SoCold:
oh Cincy had 4 turnovers in that game lol

pretty much without that Defense the 49ers prob lose 24-20

Hard to say. Both the offense and defense played very conservatively in the 2nd half because of the lead and were just trying to hold on. Without those early the turnovers it would have been a completely different game with more offense in my opinion. The Niners were the better team and I think they still would have won.

I can agree with that but no one ever says Montana won that game because of Ray Wersching.
So imo no one should say the same about Brady and Vinatari. Tom still had to drive them into FG range and Adam had to make the kick.

lol
Feb 1, 2017 at 12:27 PM
Originally posted by SoCold:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SoCold:
oh Cincy had 4 turnovers in that game lol

pretty much without that Defense the 49ers prob lose 24-20

Hard to say. Both the offense and defense played very conservatively in the 2nd half because of the lead and were just trying to hold on. Without those early the turnovers it would have been a completely different game with more offense in my opinion. The Niners were the better team and I think they still would have won.

I can agree with that but no one ever says Montana won that game because of Ray Wersching.
So imo no one should say the same about Brady and Vinatari. Tom still had to drive them into FG range and Adam had to make the kick.

lol

I agree completely. Brady's last minute drives to get his team into FG postion were impressive. If the Niners didnt need a TD in SB 23 but only needed a FG to win at the end I doubt Niners fans would have this opinion if Cofer had hit the winner with just seconds remaining.
Feb 1, 2017 at 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SoCold:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by SoCold:
oh Cincy had 4 turnovers in that game lol

pretty much without that Defense the 49ers prob lose 24-20

Hard to say. Both the offense and defense played very conservatively in the 2nd half because of the lead and were just trying to hold on. Without those early the turnovers it would have been a completely different game with more offense in my opinion. The Niners were the better team and I think they still would have won.

I can agree with that but no one ever says Montana won that game because of Ray Wersching.
So imo no one should say the same about Brady and Vinatari. Tom still had to drive them into FG range and Adam had to make the kick.

lol

I agree completely. Brady's last minute drives to get his team into FG postion were impressive. If the Niners didnt need a TD in SB 23 but only needed a FG to win at the end I doubt Niners fans would have this opinion if Cofer had hit the winner with just seconds remaining.

Agree.
I'm still pissed at Cofer for missing that extra point. Should have beat Denver 56-10.
Feb 1, 2017 at 2:30 PM
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,076
Interesting note the 1989 49ers led by Joe Montana have the all time best season record against the spread at 16-3. The 2016 Patriots led by Tom Brady can also finish 16-3 ATS if they beat the Falcons by more than 3 points.
Feb 1, 2017 at 2:48 PM
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,076
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by BobS:
Talking heads on the radio said Brady has played in 11 AFC Championship games, I just checked that appears correct. What QB played in the second most conference championship games? Without digging around I would think Elway is up there, anybody know the answer without a bunch of research?

Joe. 7 I believe
I got Elway and Montana both with 6. You can't count 1992 for Joe as he only played in one game all year and didn't take a snap in the NFC championship game. I think those two are tied for second place.
Feb 1, 2017 at 4:03 PM
Originally posted by SoCold:
I can agree with that but no one ever says Montana won that game because of Ray Wersching.
So imo no one should say the same about Brady and Vinatari. Tom still had to drive them into FG range and Adam had to make the kick.

lol

Brady's first SB - Vinatieri kicks the game winner.
Brady's second SB - Vinatieri kicks the game winner after Carolina kicked the ball out of bounds, giving NE the ball on its own 40.
Brady's third SB - Wilson throws the pick in the end zone.

If Vinatieri misses Tom Brady is Jim Kelly, not Joe Montana. I mean are we really nitpicking Joe's first SB win when 3 of 4 of the "GOAT"'s games were hinged on a kicker and Pete Carroll's arrogance?
Feb 1, 2017 at 4:56 PM
  • LVJay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 27,847
Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by SoCold:
I can agree with that but no one ever says Montana won that game because of Ray Wersching.
So imo no one should say the same about Brady and Vinatari. Tom still had to drive them into FG range and Adam had to make the kick.

lol

Brady's first SB - Vinatieri kicks the game winner.
Brady's second SB - Vinatieri kicks the game winner after Carolina kicked the ball out of bounds, giving NE the ball on its own 40.
Brady's third SB - Wilson throws the pick in the end zone.

If Vinatieri misses Tom Brady is Jim Kelly, not Joe Montana. I mean are we really nitpicking Joe's first SB win when 3 of 4 of the "GOAT"'s games were hinged on a kicker and Pete Carroll's arrogance?

What about the 3 point win over Eagles... Pats won off AV's foot as well Donovan McNabb threw 3 INTs but the game was close till the end (24-21)...http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200502060nwe.htm
Feb 1, 2017 at 4:57 PM
Originally posted by midrdan:
Brady's first SB - Vinatieri kicks the game winner.
Brady's second SB - Vinatieri kicks the game winner after Carolina kicked the ball out of bounds, giving NE the ball on its own 40.
Brady's third SB - Wilson throws the pick in the end zone.

If Vinatieri misses Tom Brady is Jim Kelly, not Joe Montana. I mean are we really nitpicking Joe's first SB win when 3 of 4 of the "GOAT"'s games were hinged on a kicker and Pete Carroll's arrogance?

Was Vinateri kicking 90 yard field goals?

He also missed 2 FGs vs Carolina earlier in the game. He kicks one of those and Brady doesn't need the last minute FG to win.

And likewise you take away the miracle Tyree catch or the drop by Wes Welker in 2011 and Brady wins 2 more.

This guy was a 49ers fan his whole life before we didn't draft him despite a need at the position. Trying to knock the guy after everythign he's done is sad.

i love Montana but Brady is the best at this point. Win or lose.
Feb 1, 2017 at 5:05 PM
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by BobS:
Talking heads on the radio said Brady has played in 11 AFC Championship games, I just checked that appears correct. What QB played in the second most conference championship games? Without digging around I would think Elway is up there, anybody know the answer without a bunch of research?

Joe. 7 I believe
I got Elway and Montana both with 6. You can't count 1992 for Joe as he only played in one game all year and didn't take a snap in the NFC championship game. I think those two are tied for second place.

Joe has 7

1981 Dallas
1983 Washington
1984 Chicago
1988 Chicago
1989 Los Angeles
1990 New York
1993 Buffalo (did you forget his AFC title game with KC?)
Feb 1, 2017 at 5:08 PM
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by SoCold:
Originally posted by SFTifoso:
Already secured




If you're gonna say NE kicker won a Super Bowl for Tom then the 49ers defense and ST won the 49ers first SB for Joe. The 49ers didn't score a TD in the 2nd half of their first SB.

Montana gave the 49ers a 20-0 lead at halftime, and the D almost blew it. Id hardly call them the heroes of that SB.

The 49ers offense was inept in the 2nd half and did very little. Therefore, the D was on the field pretty much the entire half. They played soft not wanting to give up big plays and did give up lots of completions and yardage to Cincy but not the big play. It was the goal line stand that truly defined the SB win. As for almost blowing it.. well not really. Cincy got the last TD with 15 seconds to go to get within 5.

Ok cool so it's...

Montana 4-0
Brady 4-2 * * *
[ Edited by SFTifoso on Feb 1, 2017 at 5:09 PM ]
Feb 1, 2017 at 5:09 PM
Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by SoCold:
I can agree with that but no one ever says Montana won that game because of Ray Wersching.
So imo no one should say the same about Brady and Vinatari. Tom still had to drive them into FG range and Adam had to make the kick.

lol

Brady's first SB - Vinatieri kicks the game winner.
Brady's second SB - Vinatieri kicks the game winner after Carolina kicked the ball out of bounds, giving NE the ball on its own 40.
Brady's third SB - Wilson throws the pick in the end zone.

If Vinatieri misses Tom Brady is Jim Kelly, not Joe Montana. I mean are we really nitpicking Joe's first SB win when 3 of 4 of the "GOAT"'s games were hinged on a kicker and Pete Carroll's arrogance?

this is so ridiculous. First of all, the win against Seattle when Wilson threw the pick was Bradys 4th - not 3rd SB win. The fact is Brady lead his team down the field 3 times in the 4th quarter to get his team in position to win Super Bowls. Brady has been great in Super Bowls. Not quite what Joe has been in terms of numbers but still great.
Feb 1, 2017 at 5:14 PM
Originally posted by SFTifoso:
Ok cool so it's...

Montana 4-0
Brady 4-2 * * *

Should we add *s to our wins with Jerry Rice?

You think Walsh or our own coaches didn't look to get an extra edge? Get real man.

Not to mention only 49er fans would try to pretend that getting to the SB and losing it is worse than not getting to the SB at all.
[ Edited by genus49 on Feb 1, 2017 at 5:14 PM ]
Feb 1, 2017 at 5:58 PM
  • LVJay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 27,847
When / if Brady gets to 5 wins, he'll have that extra win over Montana's 4-0... and be the greatest QB ever (just not in SBs)...

Montana will always have that No INTs in SBs and zero chokes tho... even Bradshaw can relate to the "no chokes" feeling

Feb 1, 2017 at 6:10 PM
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,076
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by BobS:
Talking heads on the radio said Brady has played in 11 AFC Championship games, I just checked that appears correct. What QB played in the second most conference championship games? Without digging around I would think Elway is up there, anybody know the answer without a bunch of research?

Joe. 7 I believe
I got Elway and Montana both with 6. You can't count 1992 for Joe as he only played in one game all year and didn't take a snap in the NFC championship game. I think those two are tied for second place.

Joe has 7

1981 Dallas
1983 Washington
1984 Chicago
1988 Chicago
1989 Los Angeles
1990 New York
1993 Buffalo (did you forget his AFC title game with KC?)
You got me, I always forget that one. I remember 1994 KC losing to Miami but always forget the previous year.
[ Edited by BobS on Feb 1, 2017 at 6:16 PM ]
Feb 1, 2017 at 6:10 PM
Originally posted by LVJay:
When / if Brady gets to 5 wins, he'll have that extra win over Montana's 4-0... and be the greatest QB ever (just not in SBs)...

Montana will always have that No INTs in SBs and zero chokes tho... even Bradshaw can relate to the "no chokes" feeling


Montana is EASILY the best player in the SB. His numbers are crazy when you take into consideration when he played but 49er fans need to let the other thing go, especially cuz Brady was one of us before we turned him away.

I'm sure if he was doing similar things for us people would have no problem saying he's the best ever.
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