Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

SO based on your logic Lynn Swann is easily the GOAT over Jerry Rice at WR since he won 4 rings and Jerry only won 3. Or.. does this only apply to quarterbacks?

QB is a unique position in all of sports. They have the biggest impact on the game, that other positions don't. it is almost certain that your team will not win any championships without a franchise QB. So yes, when measuring greatness, number of championships won, is a stat that QBs are uniquely judged on.

Originally posted by genus49:

How many SBs did Belichick get to without Brady?

And second place trophies aren't your thing but apparently 3rd/4th/5th..so on trophies are better than 2nd place?

Makes sense...

Brady was two miracle catches away from being 6-0 entering the game Sunday.

Getting there gave him and the Pats a much better chance to win than Montana did for us when he didn't make the SB.

Preferring to not make the SB over going there and losing is the epitome of second place trophy mentality.

Brady and Belichick came together at the right time, as in Belichick came to the patriots after he had plenty of experiences/failures to know what works and what doesn't.

If it was all Brady, their defense should be garbage because Belichick has very little to do with their success, since he never won anything before Brady, right? Wrong. NE has always had great defenses. And their continued success on both sides of the ball has more to do with Belichick's managerial skills (and coaching skills) to know who to acquire, and when to get rid of them. The patriot way is basically the Belichick way.

My comment on losing the Super Bowl is simply hindsight. If you don't win the SB, does it really matter wether you're 3/2 and done, or 1 and done? You failed, that's it. Had we lost in the playoffs, I'm sure I would've thought we could've beaten the Ravens.

Many fans had the same thought after the loss. We all lamented not being perfect anymore. What type of mentality we have doesn't matter. We're not on the team. We're simply spectators, with almost 0 impact on the outcome of games.

I just dont understand how anyone can rank QBs all time based on # of SB wins when its a TEAM game. This isnt the US Open in golf or tennis we are talking about. There are so many factors that decide whether at player even makes the big game let alone win it.

Using your logic SFT, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler should be ranked ahead of Dan Marino. Eli Manning ahead of Brett Favre, and Jim Plunkett in front of Steve Young. LOL

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

I just dont understand how anyone can rank QBs all time based on # of SB wins when its a TEAM game. This isnt the US Open in golf or tennis we are talking about. There are so many factors that decide whether at player even makes the big game let alone win it.

Using your logic SFT, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler should be ranked ahead of Dan Marino. Eli Manning ahead of Brett Favre, and Jim Plunkett in front of Steve Young. LOL

No, but when you have a close match, like Brady vs Montana, you may want to find a way to distinguish each. IMO, for QBs, Championships won is a legit stat. Quality of those wins matter as well.

This isn't even a debate ffs.

1. Spygate
2. Tuck rule
3. Deflategate
4. First two SB's won by kicker in close games instead of winning TD drives.

Only one guy is the GOAT QB.

This is the 49ers webzone. Joe Montana is the greatest. Other websites may disagree but who cares. With Montana and Rice, its an emotional connection. And Lott.

And that, as they say, is that.

Originally posted by English:

This is the 49ers webzone. Joe Montana is the greatest. Other websites may disagree but who cares. With Montana and Rice, its an emotional connection. And Lott.

And that, as they say, is that.

Just because it's a 49ers forum doesn't mean we should be blind homers holding on to the past.

Once again Brady was one of our own and in different circumstances could've been posting on here. 49ers chose not to draft him.

Who knows how he would've done here with us and if he would've been close to what he is with the pats but he sure as hell would've been better than Carmazzi.

I just think it's hypocritical to make all these excuses why Brady isn't good and use the stupid cheating scandals as reason...do we now think Jerry isn't the GOAT WR since he, very stupidly, revealed he used stickum?

I say Joe is the greatest all time IN Super Bowls.

Brady is the greatest all time based on their total careers.

Brady is the Jerry Rice of QBs. NE does combine like drills each year to track their players progression. Tom Brady has bettered his numbers every single season. The guy runs a faster 40 now than he did 15 years ago. That is insane. It's the reason he's going to play 20 years.

IMO if he doesn't suffer a major injury he's gong to play another 4 years and prob get to his 8th Super Bowl.

Brady has started 235 of a possible 237 games. He hasn't missed a start in 15 straight season, 8 straight since his knee injury season.

It's unheard of and prob won't ever happen again. What you are seeing is a once in a lifetime QB.

Originally posted by Buchy:
This isn't even a debate ffs.

1. Spygate
2. Tuck rule
3. Deflategate
4. First two SB's won by kicker in close games instead of winning TD drives.

Only one guy is the GOAT QB.

Once again...is Jerry Rice not the GOAT WR? After all he admitted that he used stickum...

As for your points...

1. Spygate - something every team did, Pats got caught. Their offense and Brady got better after they were caught and their whole thing was recording DEFENSIVE signals to help figure out tendencies in FUTURE games.

2. Tuck rule - was an actual rule that was enforced. That's like blaming a player because they won a game where an iffy roughing the passer call was done. Not to mention he still had to drive the team down the field in the snow to get them into FG range and then do the same in OT.

3. Deflategate - talk about mountain out of a molehill. Totally overblown story and 0 proof that Brady had anything to do with it. Every text they showed from him talking about PSI was him asking for it to be on the lower side yet LEGAL limit. Not to mention all the stories about how low the balls were was totally BS and yet ESPN didn't remove the story for months and issued their apology at like 2am months later.

4. So now we're going to hold wins away from players because the game is won by kickers? You do realize both of those wins the score was tied, not like they lose if the kicker misses. And as I mentioned before Vinateri missed 2 kicks earlier in the Carolina game. He kicks one of those and Brady doesn't need a last second FG to win that one.

Bringing up that stuff is lazy.

Honestly the only way you can still hang on to the fact that Montana is the GOAT QB is by using the era discussion but I still don't think it flies but bringing up the cheating or not being perfect in the SB is just silly.

Greatest QB of the 80's?
Yes, no doubt.

How about they are both great quarterbacks.

Originally posted by eamjr10:
How about they are both great quarterbacks.

I think we can all agree with that. Both should've been 49ers :(

Originally posted by English:

This is the 49ers webzone. Joe Montana is the greatest. Other websites may disagree but who cares. With Montana and Rice, its an emotional connection. And Lott.

And that, as they say, is that.

To this point I say Joe Montana is the greatest NFL QB of all time and nothing you can say will change my mind. So go swing from Brady's sac to your heart's content.

I can like both equally for what enjoyment they have given my while watching them play.

I find it funny a lot of people who post here never even seen the majority of Joe's career. Only seen the history of the 49ers on dvd. lol

New to 49erswebzone. Sorry if this was brought up, but what would Joe's career have looked like had he been a patriot in Tom's era and Vice versa, Tom a 49er in Joe's era? Seems like an interesting discussion.

Would Joe fair as well with the many less talented wr's? Would Joe have won the superbowls that Tom Lost?
Could Tom have completed the catch, or the drive?
Would Tom be able to engineer the same type of beat down on the broncos that Joe did?

Thoughts?

Originally posted by dirtyrottenscoundrel:
New to 49erswebzone. Sorry if this was brought up, but what would Joe's career have looked like had he been a patriot in Tom's era and Vice versa, Tom a 49er in Joe's era? Seems like an interesting discussion.

Would Joe fair as well with the many less talented wr's? Would Joe have won the superbowls that Tom Lost?
Could Tom have completed the catch, or the drive?
Would Tom be able to engineer the same type of beat down on the broncos that Joe did?

Thoughts?

My guess is they would both have been great in any era. But, in this forum, as the moderator pointed out, is a 49ers Webzone, so there are homers that will never admit that Brady is on a par or possibly even ahead of Joe. When people diminish Brady's accomplishments in the SB because he only lead game winning drives that ended in FGs, you know there is no chance on an unbiased discussion.

Brady may not have been able to pull off the catch. That was an amazing play by Joe. But, there is no doubt in my mind he could have pulled off the drive against Cincy because he has done that so many times. Give Brady Jerry Rice and John Taylor along with all the other weapons that Joe had in 1989 and I am pretty sure he could have engineered that same beat down of Denver. At the same time, there is also no doubt that Joe would have excelled with Belichick and would have won at least as many SBs.

Great is great no matter what era they played. Joe Montana and Tom Brady are simply great and I find it very difficult to say one is without question better than the other.