Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by dirtyrottenscoundrel:

New to 49erswebzone. Sorry if this was brought up, but what would Joe's career have looked like had he been a patriot in Tom's era and Vice versa, Tom a 49er in Joe's era? Seems like an interesting discussion.

Would Joe fair as well with the many less talented wr's? Would Joe have won the superbowls that Tom Lost?
Could Tom have completed the catch, or the drive?
Would Tom be able to engineer the same type of beat down on the broncos that Joe did?

Thoughts?

Just to pick up one point, Joe did not always have Rice and Taylor. Joe had two rings before they were drafted.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by dirtyrottenscoundrel:
New to 49erswebzone. Sorry if this was brought up, but what would Joe's career have looked like had he been a patriot in Tom's era and Vice versa, Tom a 49er in Joe's era? Seems like an interesting discussion.

Would Joe fair as well with the many less talented wr's? Would Joe have won the superbowls that Tom Lost?
Could Tom have completed the catch, or the drive?
Would Tom be able to engineer the same type of beat down on the broncos that Joe did?

Thoughts?

Just to pick up one point, Joe did not always have Rice and Taylor. Joe had two rings before they were drafted.

That is true however the 1984 team was one of the greatest teams in NFL history with massive talent on both sides of the ball. Having Wendell Tyler and Roger Craig in the backfield certainly was huge for Joe. I really believe the 1981 team was the one SB winning team where Joe had marginal talent at the skills positions.

Good points. How many HOFers has Tom had to work with?

If Tom had Jerry Rice would he have 10 Super Bowls by now?

Originally posted by SoCold:

Good points. How many HOFers has Tom had to work with?

If Tom had Jerry Rice would he have 10 Super Bowls by now?

Joe won SB's without Jerry Rice.

Ultimately, Jerry Rice played all 20 years of his career with at very least a Pro Bowl QB. Montana/Young/Garcia/Gannon/Hasselbeck, so its hard to gauge how good Rice would've been if he was drafted by a crap team. Its impossible to tell how much he was elevated vs how much his QB's elevated him.

Originally posted by SoCold:
Good points. How many HOFers has Tom had to work with?

If Tom had Jerry Rice would he have 10 Super Bowls by now?

It's really impossible to predict which is why you have to judge them based on how they played with who they played.

Montana was terrific but he had some advantages over Brady and Brady had some over Joe.

But the excuses against why Brady is the greatest are getting weaker and weaker. First it was 4 > 3. Now it's 4-0 > 4-2. If he wins on Sunday I wouldn't put it past some people to say 4-0 > 5-2 because perfection is better than losing.

If anything Brady's play at his current age is doing more to separate him from Joe than his SB play. It's unfortunate Joe got his ass kicked but the idea that QBs don't get hurt today is silly. Sure the rules are there to give extra protection to QBs but it doesn't stop certain players from absolutely destroying the QBs whether legally or drawing a flag.

You think a guy like Suh wouldn't love to end Brady's career if it cost him a flag or a fine? Not to mention the back injury Montana suffered was a totally clean hit which would still be clean today and it would come by much bigger and stronger guys.

The Randy Moss era suggests that Brady/Rice would've been very good indeed.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by dirtyrottenscoundrel:
New to 49erswebzone. Sorry if this was brought up, but what would Joe's career have looked like had he been a patriot in Tom's era and Vice versa, Tom a 49er in Joe's era? Seems like an interesting discussion.

Would Joe fair as well with the many less talented wr's? Would Joe have won the superbowls that Tom Lost?
Could Tom have completed the catch, or the drive?
Would Tom be able to engineer the same type of beat down on the broncos that Joe did?

Thoughts?

Just to pick up one point, Joe did not always have Rice and Taylor. Joe had two rings before they were drafted.

That is true however the 1984 team was one of the greatest teams in NFL history with massive talent on both sides of the ball. Having Wendell Tyler and Roger Craig in the backfield certainly was huge for Joe. I really believe the 1981 team was the one SB winning team where Joe had marginal talent at the skills positions.

I don't know why but every time Tyler is mentioned I think how many times he fumbled at the wrong time and sometimes without being hit hard, especially when he was a Ram. Considering that it was Roger Craig who wasn't known as a fumbler that committed the worst fumble in 49er history. Of course when Craig committed the fumble heard around the world Tyler was long since retired.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by dirtyrottenscoundrel:
New to 49erswebzone. Sorry if this was brought up, but what would Joe's career have looked like had he been a patriot in Tom's era and Vice versa, Tom a 49er in Joe's era? Seems like an interesting discussion.

Would Joe fair as well with the many less talented wr's? Would Joe have won the superbowls that Tom Lost?
Could Tom have completed the catch, or the drive?
Would Tom be able to engineer the same type of beat down on the broncos that Joe did?

Thoughts?

Just to pick up one point, Joe did not always have Rice and Taylor. Joe had two rings before they were drafted.

That is true however the 1984 team was one of the greatest teams in NFL history with massive talent on both sides of the ball. Having Wendell Tyler and Roger Craig in the backfield certainly was huge for Joe. I really believe the 1981 team was the one SB winning team where Joe had marginal talent at the skills positions.

I don't know why but every time Tyler is mentioned I think how many times he fumbled at the wrong time and sometimes without being hit hard, especially when he was a Ram. Considering that it was Roger Craig who wasn't known as a fumbler that committed the worst fumble in 49er history. Of course when Craig committed the fumble heard around the world Tyler was long since retired.

You are right about Tyler's fumbling issue. I have to say though that I have never seen a RB hit the hole faster than Wendell Tyler. He gained 1500 yards from scrimmage in 84 but he could drive you crazy by putting the ball on the turf.

The fact that Brady served a 4 game suspension for cheating just this year really makes this a non-issue anymore for me.

Also, the patriots have always done well when brady was out including going 3-1 with the backups and a rookie 3rd rounder

Joe played in an era where defenses were allowed to actually play, not one where every rule favors the offense. Joe never needed a rule to be changed to help him negate an obvious turnover. He also never got caught cheating. Brady is the best of this era, but this era heavily favors not only offense, but specifically, the quarterback.

In Golden Joes 4 super bowls his teams scored 139 total points

In bradys 6 super bowls his teams put up 135 total points

Dont know how many of either of those cane from special teams or defense

Originally posted by teylo31:
The fact that Brady served a 4 game suspension for cheating just this year really makes this a non-issue anymore for me.

Also, the patriots have always done well when brady was out including going 3-1 with the backups and a rookie 3rd rounder

Seriously?

That was the most bogus suspension ever, 0 proof. Any NFL should be outraged by that. As 49er fans we've been on the receiving end of Roger "I punish who i want" Goodell.

What did Brady do? He said he prefers his balls on the lower end of the LEGAL level. The game was played in cold & rain and yet the NFL couldn't take the measurements before the game started?

Absolutely ridiculous to think Brady should be knocked down because of that, especially when you hear stories from Joe about the niners getting an edge. Every team does it.

49ers did well with a backup too...does Joe get knocked down a peg too?

if the team would have traded young to the chiefs for thomas like i wanted to, you would have fixed the defense,. montana would have won two more super bowls and then bono would have taken over. but the hell with the logic. instead you get young who was incapable of winning the big game until they had to buy him a defense

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Joe played in an era where defenses were allowed to actually play, not one where every rule favors the offense. Joe never needed a rule to be changed to help him negate an obvious turnover. He also never got caught cheating. Brady is the best of this era, but this era heavily favors not only offense, but specifically, the quarterback.

Neither did Brady. The Tuck rule was in place well before it was called in that game.

The rest of your post is valid but don't tarnish it with alternative facts.

Originally posted by cciowa:
if the team would have traded young to the chiefs for thomas like i wanted to, you would have fixed the defense,. montana would have won two more super bowls and then bono would have taken over. but the hell with the logic. instead you get young who was incapable of winning the big game until they had to buy him a defense

Yeah cuz it was all Young. We got stuck with another HOF QB...how awful.