Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by dirtyrottenscoundrel:
New to 49erswebzone. Sorry if this was brought up, but what would Joe's career have looked like had he been a patriot in Tom's era and Vice versa, Tom a 49er in Joe's era? Seems like an interesting discussion.

Would Joe fair as well with the many less talented wr's? Would Joe have won the superbowls that Tom Lost?
Could Tom have completed the catch, or the drive?
Would Tom be able to engineer the same type of beat down on the broncos that Joe did?

Thoughts?

Joe's era benefited defenses, that's a fact. Watch film and see how defenders attack QBs and how DBs could drape all over WRs in comparison to today's game. Also, Joe's oline's weighed around 260 lbs (average), and nowadays they weigh over 3 hundred easily all across the line (bigger, stronger and just as fast).

If you put Joe in todays game, you can practically put two dirty, wet sock out there for WRs and watch him cut up a defense today

That's a fact Jacks

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Yep. Using SB wins or being undefeated in SBs as the #1 criteria for GOAT is just dumb. No other way to put it. And yes, of course Joe should be in the conversation for GOAT. I would think that virtually everyone would put Brady and Joe in the top 2 (well maybe not in Indy or Denver).

I agree that Joe made an amazing play on the Catch and perhaps Brady cant make that play. But being an elite QB and the GOAT is not only about making a once in a lifetime play. I could easily see Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers making that play by the way with their ability to improvise and scramble. Brady isnt that type of player but that really should not take anything away from his ability to throw accurate darts from the pocket.

Did you see where Harbaugh called Brady the GOAT? I did laugh a bit thinking it was a way to jab at a 49er and also to give kudos to his fellow Wolverine. If it was me, I was just call it a tie and say its impossible to choose between the 2.

Joe manufactured a lot of plays like the catch but under more mundane circumstances. The WCO had as a foundational principal QB mobility. There were dozens if not hundreds of plays predicated on pressuring weak/strong side with roll outs. So, the athletic principles were built into the system and Joe did a tremendous job of delivering the goods week in week out. An unfortunate side effect : ...injuries.

With regard to Wilson/ Rogers: Rogers yes, Wilson meh.

Harbaugh is a donkey. That dude was supposed to be the QB whisperer. [Queue hysterical laughter].

He bet the farm on twinkletoes Kaepernick. How did that turn out. Franchise changing decision.

30 years old --- and still developing!!!!!! It's comin its comin....just around the corner....almost here....right cc? nc? I can feel it.....

Good points, and ultimately why (undefeated in SBs) is and afterthought... thank you Harpernick

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
That's a fact Jacks

...

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by dirtyrottenscoundrel:
New to 49erswebzone. Sorry if this was brought up, but what would Joe's career have looked like had he been a patriot in Tom's era and Vice versa, Tom a 49er in Joe's era? Seems like an interesting discussion.

Would Joe fair as well with the many less talented wr's? Would Joe have won the superbowls that Tom Lost?
Could Tom have completed the catch, or the drive?
Would Tom be able to engineer the same type of beat down on the broncos that Joe did?

Thoughts?

Joe's era benefited defenses, that's a fact. Watch film and see how defenders attack QBs and how DBs could drape all over WRs in comparison to today's game. Also, Joe's oline's weighed around 260 lbs (average), and nowadays they weigh over 3 hundred easily all across the line (bigger, stronger and just as fast).

If you put Joe in todays game, you can practically put two dirty, wet sock out there for WRs and watch him cut up a defense today

Everybody was smaller back then lol, just because Joe would have a 300+ lb OL now, he would also have to deal with 300+ lb DL...And who knows how Joe would've fared into todays game, he wasn't a big guy by any means. There's a difference in taking a hit from a 6'5 300 LB DL running a 4.7 at you, than 6'1 260 LB DL running a 5.0. Physics...you know? Either way he would've been great. One guy I was always curious about in this age would be Marino. He was putting up 5K yards in the 80s and 90s, what would he put up now?

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by dirtyrottenscoundrel:
New to 49erswebzone. Sorry if this was brought up, but what would Joe's career have looked like had he been a patriot in Tom's era and Vice versa, Tom a 49er in Joe's era? Seems like an interesting discussion.

Would Joe fair as well with the many less talented wr's? Would Joe have won the superbowls that Tom Lost?
Could Tom have completed the catch, or the drive?
Would Tom be able to engineer the same type of beat down on the broncos that Joe did?

Thoughts?

Joe's era benefited defenses, that's a fact. Watch film and see how defenders attack QBs and how DBs could drape all over WRs in comparison to today's game. Also, Joe's oline's weighed around 260 lbs (average), and nowadays they weigh over 3 hundred easily all across the line (bigger, stronger and just as fast).

If you put Joe in todays game, you can practically put two dirty, wet sock out there for WRs and watch him cut up a defense today

Everybody was smaller back then lol, just because Joe would have a 300+ lb OL now, he would also have to deal with 300+ lb DL...And who knows how Joe would've fared into todays game, he wasn't a big guy by any means. There's a difference in taking a hit from a 6'5 300 LB DL running a 4.7 at you, than 6'1 260 LB DL running a 5.0. Physics...you know? Either way he would've been great. One guy I was always curious about in this age would be Marino. He was putting up 5K yards in the 80s and 90s, what would he put up now?

Two dirty, wet socks, man, two dirty, wet socks... BOOK IT!!

Originally posted by LVJay:
Good points, and ultimately why (undefeated in SBs) is and afterthought... thank you Harpernick

that SB loss is not on Kaep. He threw for 300+ and a TD, and ran for 62 and a TD. I am no Kaepernick fan but he played well . That loss is on the defense and the coaching staff in my opinion.

First half dude. Fade to crabs. And again. Asking kap to throw a fade is like asking stephen hawking to crochet. Some things just cain't be done.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Good points, and ultimately why (undefeated in SBs) is and afterthought... thank you Harpernick

that SB loss is not on Kaep. He threw for 300+ and a TD, and ran for 62 and a TD. I am no Kaepernick fan but he played well . That loss is on the defense and the coaching staff in my opinion.

I agree with you that the coaching staff was to blame (not all the blame tho). The whole team basically sucked in the 1st half. And the play calling was lame in the final minute. With all that being said tho, QBs get credit when the team wins AND when the team loses...

Kap didn't help any by having a weak 1st half, and if you look back at tape, there was one (maybe even twice) time when he could've ran it in himself for the TD, but instead he tried to throw another floater that failed previously to Crabby. #Harpernick #

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Good points, and ultimately why (undefeated in SBs) is and afterthought... thank you Harpernick

that SB loss is not on Kaep. He threw for 300+ and a TD, and ran for 62 and a TD. I am no Kaepernick fan but he played well . That loss is on the defense and the coaching staff in my opinion.

I agree with you that the coaching staff was to blame (not all the blame tho). The whole team basically sucked in the 1st half. And the play calling was lame in the final minute. With all that being said tho, QBs get credit when the team wins AND when the team loses...

Kap didn't help any by having a weak 1st half, and if you look back at tape, there was one (maybe even twice) time when he could've ran it in himself for the TD, but instead he tried to throw another floater that failed previously to Crabby. #Harpernick #

You guys really wanna break this loss down again, fine.

Players mistakes lost the game.

To start the Super Bowl

VD caught a 20 yard pass on the opening drive that was called back by illegal formation because VD still could remember how to line up right.
49ers had to punt
49ers stopped Baltimore on 3rd down but Brooks was offsides giving them a free first down. Then a TD pass to Boldin.

49ers added a FG then stopped Baltimore on their next drive.

49ers driving with a chance to take the lead and LaMike James fumbles the f**king ball. Nice Job Harbaugh!

15 yard face mask from Whitner set up a 1 yard TD catch from Pitta

14-3 Baltimore

First play of the 49ers next drive Ed Reed INT Kap
This was the first interception thrown by San Francisco in any of their six Super Bowl appearances

49ers stopped Baltimore on their drive after they tried a fake FG.

49ers 3 and out

Baltimore got a 56 yard TD bomb play because of blown coverage.

Last play of the first half Ackers made it 21-6

Second half kickoff Jacoby Jones returned it 108 yards for a TD and the longest play in Super Bowl history.

The 49ers made a game of it in the 3Q but you're not going to have a good chance to win the Super Bowl making that many mistakes.

Penalties and turnovers lost that game.

On what planet does the 40 time of a D-lineman matter? How fast they get off the ball is what counts. People act like Montana played in the 50's when no one lifted weights and most players had other jobs in the off season and didn't even train year round. Funny how people act like no one ran a 4.4 forty back in Montana's time and everyone now is a half second faster across the board. Even if today's defenders are so incredibly fast, strong and agile compared to Montana's era the point is moot as far as QB play is concerned. First the players those defenders are covering came from the same gene pool and train the same. If both the DB covering and the WR running the go route are two steps faster than 1979 they cancel each other out. The fear of the rush from faster defenders is cancelled out by the extent the O-line can hold and grab to slow them down, something they could not do in Montana's time. Also what is to keep Joe from taking the magic potion to gain 20 pounds of muscle if he played today? If people think QBs aren't into pharmaceuticals today they are incredibly naive.

Originally posted by BobS:
On what planet does the 40 time of a D-lineman matter? How fast they get off the ball is what counts. People act like Montana played in the 50's when no one lifted weights and most players had other jobs in the off season and didn't even train year round. Funny how people act like no one ran a 4.4 forty back in Montana's time and everyone now is a half second faster across the board. Even if today's defenders are so incredibly fast, strong and agile compared to Montana's era the point is moot as far as QB play is concerned. First the players those defenders are covering came from the same gene pool and train the same. If both the DB covering and the WR running the go route are two steps faster than 1979 they cancel each other out. The fear of the rush from faster defenders is cancelled out by the extent the O-line can hold and grab to slow them down, something they could not do in Montana's time. Also what is to keep Joe from taking the magic potion to gain 20 pounds of muscle if he played today? If people think QBs aren't into pharmaceuticals today they are incredibly naive.

I haven't been following every post so I'm sorry if I missed something but where tf did this post come from?

Are you saying Tom Brady is on the sauce?

Brady is 6-4 225, he was 211 at the combine
Montana was 6-2 200 holding a 10 lb weight

Joe snorted a bunch of coke so who cares.

I just wish the 49ers didn't miss that block when Joe got his back broken or maybe pulled LT down for a holding call instead of Joe getting crushed and breaking his elbow.

Originally posted by SoCold:
I haven't been following every post so I'm sorry if I missed something but where tf did this post come from?

Are you saying Tom Brady is on the sauce?

Brady is 6-4 225, he was 211 at the combine
Montana was 6-2 200 holding a 10 lb weight

Joe snorted a bunch of coke so who cares.

I just wish the 49ers didn't miss that block when Joe got his back broken or maybe pulled LT down for a holding call instead of Joe getting crushed and breaking his elbow.

young would have lost the super bowl if the craig fumble did not happen. i am convinced of that. or we would have won ugly like 9-3. knowing joe,. he may have tried to play in the super bowl broken finger and bruised chest and all

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by BobS:
On what planet does the 40 time of a D-lineman matter? How fast they get off the ball is what counts. People act like Montana played in the 50's when no one lifted weights and most players had other jobs in the off season and didn't even train year round. Funny how people act like no one ran a 4.4 forty back in Montana's time and everyone now is a half second faster across the board. Even if today's defenders are so incredibly fast, strong and agile compared to Montana's era the point is moot as far as QB play is concerned. First the players those defenders are covering came from the same gene pool and train the same. If both the DB covering and the WR running the go route are two steps faster than 1979 they cancel each other out. The fear of the rush from faster defenders is cancelled out by the extent the O-line can hold and grab to slow them down, something they could not do in Montana's time. Also what is to keep Joe from taking the magic potion to gain 20 pounds of muscle if he played today? If people think QBs aren't into pharmaceuticals today they are incredibly naive.

I haven't been following every post so I'm sorry if I missed something but where tf did this post come from?

Are you saying Tom Brady is on the sauce?

Brady is 6-4 225, he was 211 at the combine
Montana was 6-2 200 holding a 10 lb weight

Joe snorted a bunch of coke so who cares.

I just wish the 49ers didn't miss that block when Joe got his back broken or maybe pulled LT down for a holding call instead of Joe getting crushed and breaking his elbow.

No, I am not saying Brady is on the sauce, if he is he isn't doing the good stuff. Hate to think a guy would juice with Brady's build and still run a 5.28 forty. I am saying if Joe's size had a negative effect in today's game he could get some pharmaceutical help if he played currently. That is the big difference between today and 1980, and if people think different I ask them to point out what it is. Please don't say "modern training methods and nutrition".

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by BobS:
On what planet does the 40 time of a D-lineman matter? How fast they get off the ball is what counts. People act like Montana played in the 50's when no one lifted weights and most players had other jobs in the off season and didn't even train year round. Funny how people act like no one ran a 4.4 forty back in Montana's time and everyone now is a half second faster across the board. Even if today's defenders are so incredibly fast, strong and agile compared to Montana's era the point is moot as far as QB play is concerned. First the players those defenders are covering came from the same gene pool and train the same. If both the DB covering and the WR running the go route are two steps faster than 1979 they cancel each other out. The fear of the rush from faster defenders is cancelled out by the extent the O-line can hold and grab to slow them down, something they could not do in Montana's time. Also what is to keep Joe from taking the magic potion to gain 20 pounds of muscle if he played today? If people think QBs aren't into pharmaceuticals today they are incredibly naive.

I haven't been following every post so I'm sorry if I missed something but where tf did this post come from?

Are you saying Tom Brady is on the sauce?

Brady is 6-4 225, he was 211 at the combine
Montana was 6-2 200 holding a 10 lb weight

Joe snorted a bunch of coke so who cares.

I just wish the 49ers didn't miss that block when Joe got his back broken or maybe pulled LT down for a holding call instead of Joe getting crushed and breaking his elbow.

No, I am not saying Brady is on the sauce, if he is he isn't doing the good stuff. Hate to think a guy would juice with Brady's build and still run a 5.28 forty. I am saying if Joe's size had a negative effect in today's game he could get some pharmaceutical help if he played currently. That is the big difference between today and 1980, and if people think different I ask them to point out what it is. Please don't say "modern training methods and nutrition".

I'm sure Joe had his fair share of pain killer shots esp. after his injuries. Not sure wtf you're talking about. lol