Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by SoCold:
I'm sure Joe had his fair share of pain killer shots esp. after his injuries. Not sure wtf you're talking about. lol

I am saying a lot of current players are on something, maybe HGH or a derivative the NFL can't properly test for or won't. Good example is Brian Cushing I think it was between his Sophomore and Junior year at USC 30 pounds of muscle appear almost overnight something that would take a couple years with just plain old hard work and good genetics. Cushing got one 4 game suspension in the NFL for PEDs. The ill gotten gains usually disappear quickly if one stops using, yet Cushing never changed. The NFL seems to be big on suspending the pot smokers and stimulant users but just does token enforcement of PEDs that build muscle mass. So I am implying if Joe was too skinny for today's NFL he could go see Brian Cushing's pharmacist.

Brady is definitely not on the sauce.

Have you guys seen that guy's diet? No guy who eats so restrictive would put chemicals in his body.

Brady is a great dude who is super humble despite having so much success. Pretty sure if you ask him who is the greatest he'd still say Montana.

Scratch that...apparently he was asked that just the other day.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-brady-doesnt-think-tom-brady-is-one-of-the-greatest-qbs-ever/

Hating on this guy is just jealousy. The guy is awesome for the sport and was a fellow 49ers fan. I hope he plays as long as possible and sets of all the passing records. We may not see another guy like him for a long time if ever and if our next QB can be half the QB Brady is then we'd be awfully lucky.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by SoCold:
I'm sure Joe had his fair share of pain killer shots esp. after his injuries. Not sure wtf you're talking about. lol

I am saying a lot of current players are on something, maybe HGH or a derivative the NFL can't properly test for or won't. Good example is Brian Cushing I think it was between his Sophomore and Junior year at USC 30 pounds of muscle appear almost overnight something that would take a couple years with just plain old hard work and good genetics. Cushing got one 4 game suspension in the NFL for PEDs. The ill gotten gains usually disappear quickly if one stops using, yet Cushing never changed. The NFL seems to be big on suspending the pot smokers and stimulant users but just does token enforcement of PEDs that build muscle mass. So I am implying if Joe was too skinny for today's NFL he could go see Brian Cushing's pharmacist.

k but wtf does that have to do with Tom Brady vs Joe Montana? I don't remember anyone saying Joe was too small to be a good QB?

Plus
My cousin put on 10 lbs of muscle on his tiny 170 lb frame. His neck was double the size when he played college football to what it is now. lol
He ate Creatine and pro whey 3 times a day for 4 years. There's a wall of s**t in locker rooms today for players to take that's legal.
Not everything is against the rules. Most guys get caught taking illegal s**t when they get injured and are trying to rush the recovery process.

Originally posted by genus49:
Brady is definitely not on the sauce.

Have you guys seen that guy's diet? No guy who eats so restrictive would put chemicals in his body.

Brady is a great dude who is super humble despite having so much success. Pretty sure if you ask him who is the greatest he'd still say Montana.

Scratch that...apparently he was asked that just the other day.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-brady-doesnt-think-tom-brady-is-one-of-the-greatest-qbs-ever/

Hating on this guy is just jealousy. The guy is awesome for the sport and was a fellow 49ers fan. I hope he plays as long as possible and sets of all the passing records. We may not see another guy like him for a long time if ever and if our next QB can be half the QB Brady is then we'd be awfully lucky.

Answer that a politician would give. Trump does not approve.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Answer that a politician would give. Trump does not approve.

Bringing up Russell Wilson and Cam Newton is not a politician answer. It's a legit answer from a guy who doesn't buy his own hype...even though he should.

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by SoCold:
I'm sure Joe had his fair share of pain killer shots esp. after his injuries. Not sure wtf you're talking about. lol

I am saying a lot of current players are on something, maybe HGH or a derivative the NFL can't properly test for or won't. Good example is Brian Cushing I think it was between his Sophomore and Junior year at USC 30 pounds of muscle appear almost overnight something that would take a couple years with just plain old hard work and good genetics. Cushing got one 4 game suspension in the NFL for PEDs. The ill gotten gains usually disappear quickly if one stops using, yet Cushing never changed. The NFL seems to be big on suspending the pot smokers and stimulant users but just does token enforcement of PEDs that build muscle mass. So I am implying if Joe was too skinny for today's NFL he could go see Brian Cushing's pharmacist.

k but wtf does that have to do with Tom Brady vs Joe Montana? I don't remember anyone saying Joe was too small to be a good QB?

Plus
My cousin put on 10 lbs of muscle on his tiny 170 lb frame. His neck was double the size when he played college football to what it is now. lol
He ate Creatine and pro whey 3 times a day for 4 years. There's a wall of s**t in locker rooms today for players to take that's legal.
Not everything is against the rules. Most guys get caught taking illegal s**t when they get injured and are trying to rush the recovery process.

There were some arguing that Brady would not have the longevity in Joe's era because they did not have the rules that protect the QB as they do now. Then people countered with saying the smaller Montana would get mauled worse because of larger faster players in today's NFL. There are some that believe modern players got bigger and faster because of training methods, I say training methods aren't that different, but PEDs are. Good example with your cousin, Creatine helps but it isn't a modern miracle you could have bought it at the health food store in 1979, there isn't anything new in the "wall of sh*t" you speak of. Your cousin gained 10# of muscles over years, not the quick 30# players have been seen gaining these days.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by SoCold:
I'm sure Joe had his fair share of pain killer shots esp. after his injuries. Not sure wtf you're talking about. lol

I am saying a lot of current players are on something, maybe HGH or a derivative the NFL can't properly test for or won't. Good example is Brian Cushing I think it was between his Sophomore and Junior year at USC 30 pounds of muscle appear almost overnight something that would take a couple years with just plain old hard work and good genetics. Cushing got one 4 game suspension in the NFL for PEDs. The ill gotten gains usually disappear quickly if one stops using, yet Cushing never changed. The NFL seems to be big on suspending the pot smokers and stimulant users but just does token enforcement of PEDs that build muscle mass. So I am implying if Joe was too skinny for today's NFL he could go see Brian Cushing's pharmacist.

k but wtf does that have to do with Tom Brady vs Joe Montana? I don't remember anyone saying Joe was too small to be a good QB?

Plus
My cousin put on 10 lbs of muscle on his tiny 170 lb frame. His neck was double the size when he played college football to what it is now. lol
He ate Creatine and pro whey 3 times a day for 4 years. There's a wall of s**t in locker rooms today for players to take that's legal.
Not everything is against the rules. Most guys get caught taking illegal s**t when they get injured and are trying to rush the recovery process.

There were some arguing that Brady would not have the longevity in Joe's era because they did not have the rules that protect the QB as they do now. Then people countered with saying the smaller Montana would get mauled worse because of larger faster players in today's NFL. There are some that believe modern players got bigger and faster because of training methods, I say training methods aren't that different, but PEDs are. Good example with your cousin, Creatine helps but it isn't a modern miracle you could have bought it at the health food store in 1979, there isn't anything new in the "wall of sh*t" you speak of. Your cousin gained 10# of muscles over years, not the quick 30# players have been seen gaining these days.

It's been proven that Tom Brady works his ass off to keep his body in that good of shape.
It's been proven that he has his own personal chef that keeps him from eating tomatoes because he says the acid isn't good for your joints.
That's just a dedicated player taking it to the beyond level.

I get what you're saying but none of that has to do with Tom or Joe.

again, as long as any QB of the present is being compared to JOE, that alone tells you that JOE still on top !!

Originally posted by 9moon:
again, as long as any QB of the present is being compared to JOE, that alone tells you that JOE still on top !!

Originally posted by BobS:
There were some arguing that Brady would not have the longevity in Joe's era because they did not have the rules that protect the QB as they do now. Then people countered with saying the smaller Montana would get mauled worse because of larger faster players in today's NFL. There are some that believe modern players got bigger and faster because of training methods, I say training methods aren't that different, but PEDs are. Good example with your cousin, Creatine helps but it isn't a modern miracle you could have bought it at the health food store in 1979, there isn't anything new in the "wall of sh*t" you speak of. Your cousin gained 10# of muscles over years, not the quick 30# players have been seen gaining these days.

I get you, and I'm not arguing, just clarifying for my own skeptisim and what not... besides, I usually agree with you in here so, don't take this the wrong way.

First of all, Brady is not on anything banned from the league (imho) and he is the real deal, and (imho, again) if he gets his 5th ring, he's arguably the greatest of all time, but just not in SBs (THAT IS A FACT!!).

Let's get to the meat and potatoes, "There were some arguing that Brady would not have the longevity in Joe's era because they did not have the rules that protect the QB as they do now." [Brady would've been just fine if not better (we don't have to go into explanations there if we're being honest)]...

Then people countered with saying the smaller Montana would get mauled worse because of larger faster players in today's NFL" [To think that Joe would not thrive in this era with the "oh don't hurt my pretty boy, whiny, diva QB" rules these days, and how the rules have turned in favor for the offense (PASSING LEAGUE)... to say Joe wouldn't be as effective or even better is just plain absurd. ALSO, let's not forget (BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO MENTION THIS PART), the oline's are a lot more bigger, stronger and just as fast or faster than days of old (to go against the bigger, stronger and faster LBs / DLs of today)... funny how peeps like to NOT MENTION that part when bringing up bigger / badder LBs, DLs

"training methods" may have gotten smarter, but the work ethic of those guys from days of old was just as hard if not harder (just maybe not smarter). PED's and doping are more rampant / effective these days. The loopholes of getting around testing is a lot more better #WhoIsLanceArmstrong (just one example).

If someone who pays attention wants to be honest and stop with the BS, they will tell you that athletes (not just football, but mostly football since that's what we're talking about here), in comparison to the football players / athletes from days of old, are a lot bigger, stronger and faster than previous eras (including Joe's era). The Game (whatever sport), players, sports medicine / science / doctors has evolved. To think that Joe would not have been one of the players that did not take advantage and thrive off today's training / legal medicine (in order to get better, muscular, stronger, etc.) is only biased and kidding [only THEMSELVES]!

People think Drew Brees is elite?! In my opinion, he is, but not more favorable in comparison to Joe if he was around, and Willow Wilson would (arguably) look average in comparison. Those two are thought of as good QBs (these days) who've won SBs in case anyone forgot... Joe's taller than both of them! Take Joe off his Coc diet and put him on Brady's diet... if anyone doesn't believe he wouldn't have been stronger, more muscular and somewhat faster (please stop, you're not insulting anyone's intelligence, you're only making yourself look desperate by reaching)

BTW, I haven't searched much, but couldn't find Joe w/out a shirt on except for the one below.

Look at Joe in RETIREMENT (gotta be at least 60 in there) with his grayish, patchy nest resting on his balding dome, and his flabby, but not scrawny body. Imagine what he looked (working out and in shape) like when he was our QB. I highly doubt he was flabby or scrawny. Still don't think he'd be more muscular / athletic with a Brady (or similar) diet??



This dude is not retired so, puhleeeease...... imagine the likes of Lawrence Taylor, The Refrigerator, Richard Dent, Reggie White or Derrick Thomas (there are dozens more, but I'll stop for now) ALL IN THEIR PRIME, looking to injure his head / knees... rushing him with 260 lb olines protecting his curvy body

Originally posted by genus49:

... Once again...is Jerry Rice not the GOAT WR? After all he admitted that he used stickum...

As for your points...

1. Spygate - something every team did, Pats got caught. Their offense and Brady got better after they were caught and their whole thing was recording DEFENSIVE signals to help figure out tendencies in FUTURE games.

2. Tuck rule - was an actual rule that was enforced. That's like blaming a player because they won a game where an iffy roughing the passer call was done. Not to mention he still had to drive the team down the field in the snow to get them into FG range and then do the same in OT.

3. Deflategate - talk about mountain out of a molehill. Totally overblown story and 0 proof that Brady had anything to do with it. Every text they showed from him talking about PSI was him asking for it to be on the lower side yet LEGAL limit. Not to mention all the stories about how low the balls were was totally BS and yet ESPN didn't remove the story for months and issued their apology at like 2am months later.

4. So now we're going to hold wins away from players because the game is won by kickers? You do realize both of those wins the score was tied, not like they lose if the kicker misses. And as I mentioned before Vinateri missed 2 kicks earlier in the Carolina game. He kicks one of those and Brady doesn't need a last second FG to win that one.

Bringing up that stuff is lazy. ...

Agreed.

Diehard Niner fan as I am, objectively speaking, I don't need to use fabrications to tear another team/player/coach/organization down for their legitimately earned successes with fabricated BS. This applies to the teams I severely dislike, too (Seahawks, Steelers, etc.)

If the Patriots win SB LI it will be difficult to argue against Brady as the GOAT. But it's a fair point to say Montana had greater individual performances on his SB resume.

Originally posted by 49er-from-Yavin-IV:

If the Patriots win SB LI it will be difficult to argue against Brady as the GOAT. But it's a fair point to say Montana had greater individual performances on his SB resume.

I don't get why that makes Brady the GOAT.

Look up Brady's stats, he was not 'the man' the first 3 super bowls. A strong, important player, absolutely! But it was only later that he became part of the discussion for a top QB. Then as time passed, people forgot what he really did at the start of his career during the first 3 SBs. It took Brady *8* seasons to post an over 100 passer rating, and this is in the 2000s where QB rating is much easier to get high marks than in the 80s. Joe got over 100 in his 6th season in his 2nd super bowl season. Joe was THE MAN. Brady was not really for his first 3 SBs. People just view him differently now because of the back half of his career where he improved and got smarter.... but JUST IMAGINE WHAT JOE COULD HAVE DONE WITH THE SAME RULES!!! Aaaaaaaaaahhhh. Its so obvious.

Absolutely hilarious that people say things like "oh but Joe would be beat up in today's game" -- LMFAO seriously... just stop. You must be like 15. You need to go watch like 5 classic NFL games to see what the NFL used to be like. I think the NFL had to change for the sake of player's mental condition, but my my my how quickly history is forgotten. This used to be a *rough* game. It's still rough, but QBs are like ballerinas back there now. Joe would flourish being protected.

Originally posted by LVJay:


First of all, Brady is not on anything banned from the league (imho) and he is the real deal, and (imho, again) if he gets his 5th ring, he's arguably the greatest of all time, but just not in SBs (THAT IS A FACT!!).


If someone who pays attention wants to be honest and stop with the BS, they will tell you that athletes (not just football, but mostly football since that's what we're talking about here), in comparison to the football players / athletes from days of old, are a lot bigger, stronger and faster than previous eras (including Joe's era). The Game (whatever sport), players, sports medicine / science / doctors has evolved. To think that Joe would not have been one of the players that did not take advantage and thrive off today's training / legal medicine (in order to get better, muscular, stronger, etc.) is only biased and kidding [only THEMSELVES]!

First I never even implied Brady was using PEDs, why do people keep saying that? I was saying there are more users today getting away with it than ever. Athletes have advanced, but as you mentioned it is mostly do to sports medicine. That sports medicine includes better surgical procedures, better rehabbing procedures and pharmaceuticals of the illegal kind. A lot of people are implying humans have measurably evolved along with training methods the last 30 years and that is nonsense. When I was in college (in Joe's era) I played ref at High School passing league games and officiated at High School skills competitions they had in the area. Sprints were hand timed with digital stop watches and we took the average of two guys timing each run. Even back in the late 70's there were 17 year olds running 4.4's in the 40 and 9.6 in the 100 yard dash. All the other things you discusses I was listing other's thoughts, not mine. I believe Brady would have done well in Joe's era and vice versa. I think at this point they are very close and if you swapped them out the results would have been very much the same. Another note on Brady, the guy won his first 10 straight play-off games.

Originally posted by donalddole:

I don't get why that makes Brady the GOAT.

Look up Brady's stats, he was not 'the man' the first 3 super bowls. A strong, important player, absolutely! But it was only later that he became part of the discussion for a top QB. Then as time passed, people forgot what he really did at the start of his career during the first 3 SBs. It took Brady *8* seasons to post an over 100 passer rating, and this is in the 2000s where QB rating is much easier to get high marks than in the 80s. Joe got over 100 in his 6th season in his 2nd super bowl season. Joe was THE MAN. Brady was not really for his first 3 SBs. People just view him differently now because of the back half of his career where he improved and got smarter.... but JUST IMAGINE WHAT JOE COULD HAVE DONE WITH THE SAME RULES!!! Aaaaaaaaaahhhh. Its so obvious.

Absolutely hilarious that people say things like "oh but Joe would be beat up in today's game" -- LMFAO seriously... just stop. You must be like 15. You need to go watch like 5 classic NFL games to see what the NFL used to be like. I think the NFL had to change for the sake of player's mental condition, but my my my how quickly history is forgotten. This used to be a *rough* game. It's still rough, but QBs are like ballerinas back there now. Joe would flourish being protected.

Joe also had Bill Walsh who was an offensive innovative genius and that certainly helps develop QB. Belichick is an amazing coach but his strength was defense.

And Brady got his first 100 passer rating in his 7th season as a starter. It also happened to be the first time the Pats took the resources to get him legit WRs to throw to and all he did was put up historical numbers and was a miracle catch by David Tyree away from going 19-0.

Montana got injured on a legal play which could just as easily happen today so not sure what you're talking about. Would Joe's numbers be better today? Absolutely but he'd also be playing at a time when WCO is a known system at this point vs still being relatively new when Walsh installed it here.

QBs are protected today. It doesn't mean they don't get hit. And they get hit hard. Assuming Joe wouldn't get killed toddy is just that...an assumption. Same way assuming Brady couldn't hack it in the 80s.