Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by phatbutskinny:
Like I said, Montana is better, but it is technically a poor argument. Yes, the Super Bowl is the 'big game' so it looks worse when you lose, but it means you were 2nd best. Losing in the conference championship means you were 3rd best.

Technically, Montana was 1st place 4 times, and then 3rd place a few more times. Brady was 1st place 4 times and then 2nd place a few more times. Factually, Brady is better if you use this argument. You can say that Montana had tougher conference opponents, but he still lost, he just didn't do it in the big game so nobody acts likeit happened. A loss is a loss.

Anyway, Montana is better. I just hate when people use that argument. We could be using the argument that Montana had to play in a tougher era, or didn't have to rely on his kicker, etc. Those are better arguments, instead of pointing to the simple 4-0 > 4-2 stat, which doesn't even consider the fact that Montana couldn't even get to the SB

Well Brady's 2 SB losses were upsets. One was pretty freakin monumental and the 2nd one allowed the Giants to become the first 9 win SB team since the Packers in SB 2....I think.

Joe should write a book about his Super Bowl performances. The title of the book? Well, since the patriots can't use it, I say title it "Perfection."

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
6 Super Bowls > 4 Super Bowls.

Brady is better.

You need to check the way the rules have been changed in the meantime to protect and favour the qb.

And, by the way, losing does not equal winning.

He won 4 and played in 6. So the guy who is not good enough to play in 6 is better than the guy who did play in 6? How so? They both won 4.

Joe Montana's legacy is what it is.

Celebrate his legacy or defend it, but the last time Joe Montana stepped onto a football field as a 49er player was in 1992----nearly a quarter of a century ago.

The other players on the teams.
Two different eras with some significant differences in rules.
Different competition.

Those are some of the factors that had everything to do with who won how many Super Bowls that had very little to nothing to do with Montana or Brady. But maybe one of the biggest factors other than the quarterbacks themselves was the coaches. How great would Montana's career have been without Walsh? How great would Brady's career have been without Belichick? Maybe it would make more sense to argue about who was the greatest quarterback/coach combination rather than just who was the greatest quarterback.

Originally posted by theduke85:
The deflated balls things is just a complete joke. I couldn't care less. This story is blown wildly out of proportion because the media loves controversy. Aaron Rodgers basically came out and casually admitted that he did the exact same thing (only he over-inflated balls instead).

The truth is that a huge chunk of people here are not capable of having an objective discussion if it involves a beloved 49ers player. Look at how people reacted when Jerry Rice came out and admitted to using stickum. It was just swarms of excuses and apologists telling us why it didn't matter. Well guess what? The deflated balls stuff doesn't matter either. Remember when Bill Parcells accused Bill Walsh of disabling the communication systems of his opponents? Surely that can't be true, it's only hearsay! A 49er represents honor, integrity and righteousness, that simply couldn't be true!

As far as Montana/Brady, I think it's a great debate. Personally, I side with Brady, but I can see it both ways and I think it's a very close argument. When people talk about players from the past, they often romanticize. They become legends, and the tales of the legends grow larger and more exaggerated. "It was tougher for Joe Montana. Back then, quarterbacks had to walk uphill both ways through snow to get to and from practice!" It's like that basketball statistic that was floated around recently [ http://tinyurl.com/nl4aet9
]. You would never in a million years guess that. You'd think that Jordan was 30-for-30 on such shots. To see how LeBron compares is truly amazing.

Some aspects of Joe's game were tougher (harder to pass back then, which is why we can't compare their numbers straight up without adjustment), some aspects were easier (no salary cap, more loaded teams; starting in 1982, the NFC won 15 of 16 Super Bowls... sounds like a lot of talent disparity, which isn't nearly as extreme today).

To me, Jerry Rice is GOAT at his position. Nobody comes close. I don't think Montana was that way. I think there are legitimate arguments for others. But, again, the Webzone is not the place where people will acknowledge this.

I like this post. IMO Brady has earned the right to be in GOAT discussion. I don't get offended when his name is brought up.

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
Amazing that some Niner fans on here actually thinks Brady or Marino is better then Montana. What kind of Niner fans are you guys. What let me guess you mad cuz he didn't bring us like 15 tittles is that it? Jeez i would be ashamed to call myself a Niner fan if my thinking was Joe wasn't the GOAT. Some ppl are just never satisfied.

I've always thought Marino was the best QB as far as throwing goes. Joe was certainly more clutch, but Marino never got the chance to play for the greatest coach of all time. Or have Rice, Brent, Taylor, Craig, Rathman, Clark and everyone else.

It would've been something else to see Marino's quick release in Walsh's west coast offense....unstoppable!

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:

Amazing that some Niner fans on here actually thinks Brady or Marino is better then Montana. What kind of Niner fans are you guys. What let me guess you mad cuz he didn't bring us like 15 tittles is that it? Jeez i would be ashamed to call myself a Niner fan if my thinking was Joe wasn't the GOAT. Some ppl are just never satisfied.

I've always thought Marino was the best QB as far as throwing goes. Joe was certainly more clutch, but Marino never got the chance to play for the greatest coach of all time. Or have Rice, Brent, Taylor, Craig, Rathman, Clark and everyone else.

It would've been something else to see Marino's quick release in Walsh's west coast offense....unstoppable!

Or it could made Marino worse ?, since he was just a read and react QB

Originally posted by teylo31:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by WINiner:
The fact that coool Joe never relied on his kicker to win the game for any of his SB's had already decided the debate in my mind.

He just counted on a Cowboys defender to drop an Int right before the catch
and counted on a Cincy defender to drop an Int on the drive in the SB
lolz
Joe Cool was awesome but he also had some luck in there too


and the 49ers cheated the system too

You could play that game all day. If the seahags coaching staff didnt have a brainfart and forgot they had lynch this wouldn't even be a discussion

It's why I feel the argument is stupid. Montana is better based on his stats.

You play to win the Super Bowl, who cares how many yards or Int or Touchdowns it takes just Win baby.

No one ever talks about Terry Bradshaw, dude won 4 super bowls in 6 years. But but but his teams D was the reason. lol he still had to perform and not screw up and lose the game for em.

Montana
Brady
Bradshaw

all tied for 1st place all time

Troy Aikman 2nd all time
Dude had to go through the 49ers to win those super bowls, those NFCCG were some of the best all time

imo

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by teylo31:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by WINiner:
The fact that coool Joe never relied on his kicker to win the game for any of his SB's had already decided the debate in my mind.

He just counted on a Cowboys defender to drop an Int right before the catch
and counted on a Cincy defender to drop an Int on the drive in the SB
lolz
Joe Cool was awesome but he also had some luck in there too


and the 49ers cheated the system too

You could play that game all day. If the seahags coaching staff didnt have a brainfart and forgot they had lynch this wouldn't even be a discussion

It's why I feel the argument is stupid. Montana is better based on his stats.

You play to win the Super Bowl, who cares how many yards or Int or Touchdowns it takes just Win baby.

No one ever talks about Terry Bradshaw, dude won 4 super bowls in 6 years. But but but his teams D was the reason. lol he still had to perform and not screw up and lose the game for em.

Montana
Brady
Bradshaw

all tied for 1st place all time

Troy Aikman 2nd all time
Dude had to go through the 49ers to win those super bowls, those NFCCG were some of the best all time

imo

There's no way that I could put Bradshaw tied for first place with Montana and Brady. Saying "he still had to perform and not screw up" isn't a good enough reason, to me.

Honestly I would put, in no particular order
Montana
Brady
Rodgers
Moon
Kelly
Marino
Young
Aikman
Thiesman(sp)
Peyton
Favre

All of these guys ahead of Bradshaw

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by teylo31:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by WINiner:
The fact that coool Joe never relied on his kicker to win the game for any of his SB's had already decided the debate in my mind.

He just counted on a Cowboys defender to drop an Int right before the catch
and counted on a Cincy defender to drop an Int on the drive in the SB
lolz
Joe Cool was awesome but he also had some luck in there too


and the 49ers cheated the system too

You could play that game all day. If the seahags coaching staff didnt have a brainfart and forgot they had lynch this wouldn't even be a discussion

It's why I feel the argument is stupid. Montana is better based on his stats.

You play to win the Super Bowl, who cares how many yards or Int or Touchdowns it takes just Win baby.

No one ever talks about Terry Bradshaw, dude won 4 super bowls in 6 years. But but but his teams D was the reason. lol he still had to perform and not screw up and lose the game for em.

Montana
Brady
Bradshaw

all tied for 1st place all time

Troy Aikman 2nd all time
Dude had to go through the 49ers to win those super bowls, those NFCCG were some of the best all time

imo

There's no way that I could put Bradshaw tied for first place with Montana and Brady. Saying "he still had to perform and not screw up" isn't a good enough reason, to me.

Honestly I would put, in no particular order
Montana
Brady
Rodgers
Moon
Kelly
Marino
Young
Aikman
Thiesman(sp)
Peyton
Favre

All of these guys ahead of Bradshaw

but why? based on what?

Take Jim Kelly his stats have him ranked #84 all time no SB wins

Bradshaw is #71 and has 4-0 in SB

Joe Montana's stats rank him #110 all time

People say Joe Montana is the GOAT based on him winning 4 SB not his stats

Then say Bradshaw isn't even a top 10 QB because of his stats

lol it's so dumb

Originally posted by IHATELOWELLCOHN:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by IHATELOWELLCOHN:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by IHATELOWELLCOHN:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Really Joe Montana would've been no better than Akili Smith or Quincy Carter without Walsh and all of the HOF players surrounding him.

Some people just can't resist being an (insert word here).

Akili has more passing yards, more TDs, less interceptions, better completion pct., better QB rating, thats a fact. He also played with worse talent and coaches in the NFL, also a fact.

You're talking about college??? College??? Lol!!!

LOL.....alright, I'll stop f**king around. It obvious Montana is one of the greatest, however I was a bigger Young fan because of my age(34)

Yeah you just missed Montana. I'm 37 and remember from about 84 on. You don't remember the 88-89 seasons. If you can remember 89 and still like Young over Montana I'm impressed. Steve was unlike any QB I'd ever seen when he arrived taking on Mike Singletary just running over LBs but Joe was like watching something smooth. He just always seemed to come through when you started to get worried or just when you thought today isn't the day he would throw 4 2nd half TDs and it would be quick too. They would be down 10-13 points and all of a sudden it's the 5:00 minute mark in the 4th quarter and we're up 14. Young was great too but didn't have the same smoothness to his game except the SD SB.

Im actually 33. I turn 34 in August. So, Joe's 49er career was played, and finished, before I was 11.

The reason I became a 49er fan was because of the Superbowl against Denver. It's the first football game that I can actually remember. Watching them go up and down the field, scoring at will, was so cool to me.

However, the Superbowl against SD was the greatest. I was in middle school, and I always wore my 49ers Apex Jacket, still have it too, to school. Everyone knew I liked the Niners, and they were talking s**t about hw SD was going to beat us. It was awesome going back to school and being able to talk s**t to everyone.

I could understand football a lot better when Young was our QB so that's another reason why I like Young better.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
6 Super Bowls > 4 Super Bowls.

Brady is better.

You need to check the way the rules have been changed in the meantime to protect and favour the qb.

And, by the way, losing does not equal winning.

He won 4 and played in 6. So the guy who is not good enough to play in 6 is better than the guy who did play in 6? How so? They both won 4.

But Brady wasn't good enough to win 6.... whats your point? I cant believe your actually defending your statement

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by teylo31:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by WINiner:
The fact that coool Joe never relied on his kicker to win the game for any of his SB's had already decided the debate in my mind.

He just counted on a Cowboys defender to drop an Int right before the catch
and counted on a Cincy defender to drop an Int on the drive in the SB
lolz
Joe Cool was awesome but he also had some luck in there too


and the 49ers cheated the system too

You could play that game all day. If the seahags coaching staff didnt have a brainfart and forgot they had lynch this wouldn't even be a discussion

It's why I feel the argument is stupid. Montana is better based on his stats.

You play to win the Super Bowl, who cares how many yards or Int or Touchdowns it takes just Win baby.

No one ever talks about Terry Bradshaw, dude won 4 super bowls in 6 years. But but but his teams D was the reason. lol he still had to perform and not screw up and lose the game for em.

Montana
Brady
Bradshaw

all tied for 1st place all time

Troy Aikman 2nd all time
Dude had to go through the 49ers to win those super bowls, those NFCCG were some of the best all time

imo

There's no way that I could put Bradshaw tied for first place with Montana and Brady. Saying "he still had to perform and not screw up" isn't a good enough reason, to me.

Honestly I would put, in no particular order
Montana
Brady
Rodgers
Moon
Kelly
Marino
Young
Aikman
Thiesman(sp)
Peyton
Favre

All of these guys ahead of Bradshaw

but why? based on what?

Take Jim Kelly his stats have him ranked #84 all time no SB wins

Bradshaw is #71 and has 4-0 in SB

Joe Montana's stats rank him #110 all time

People say Joe Montana is the GOAT based on him winning 4 SB not his stats

Then say Bradshaw isn't even a top 10 QB because of his stats

lol it's so dumb

Based on if I had to pick one QB to win a game, I'd take any of those guys over Bradshaw.

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by teylo31:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by WINiner:
The fact that coool Joe never relied on his kicker to win the game for any of his SB's had already decided the debate in my mind.

He just counted on a Cowboys defender to drop an Int right before the catch
and counted on a Cincy defender to drop an Int on the drive in the SB
lolz
Joe Cool was awesome but he also had some luck in there too


and the 49ers cheated the system too

You could play that game all day. If the seahags coaching staff didnt have a brainfart and forgot they had lynch this wouldn't even be a discussion

It's why I feel the argument is stupid. Montana is better based on his stats.

You play to win the Super Bowl, who cares how many yards or Int or Touchdowns it takes just Win baby.

No one ever talks about Terry Bradshaw, dude won 4 super bowls in 6 years. But but but his teams D was the reason. lol he still had to perform and not screw up and lose the game for em.

Montana
Brady
Bradshaw

all tied for 1st place all time

Troy Aikman 2nd all time
Dude had to go through the 49ers to win those super bowls, those NFCCG were some of the best all time

imo

There's no way that I could put Bradshaw tied for first place with Montana and Brady. Saying "he still had to perform and not screw up" isn't a good enough reason, to me.

Honestly I would put, in no particular order
Montana
Brady
Rodgers
Moon
Kelly
Marino
Young
Aikman
Thiesman(sp)
Peyton
Favre

All of these guys ahead of Bradshaw

but why? based on what?

Take Jim Kelly his stats have him ranked #84 all time no SB wins

Bradshaw is #71 and has 4-0 in SB

Joe Montana's stats rank him #110 all time

People say Joe Montana is the GOAT based on him winning 4 SB not his stats

Then say Bradshaw isn't even a top 10 QB because of his stats

lol it's so dumb

Based on if I had to pick one QB to win a game, I'd take any of those guys over Bradshaw.

Well that's silly, Theismann isn't winning anything with that leg of his