Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Montana also dominated. And was pretty flawless in the big games. Brady was far from flawless throwing interceptions and not blowing out any teams whatsoever. In the slightest way. Montana made a habit out of that. I can't believe people are actually arguing The comparison. Hell if Super Bowl wins is the only reason Brady propelled past Montana, I guess Bradshaw is as good as Montana or in the same league Huh?.......Not!

It takes an entire team to dominate and the league is just not build for that nowadays. You give Joe a bunch of little white receivers and make him throw 50-60 times a game I'd like to see how many rings he racks up. The nature of the win is irrelevant it's how many rings you win and it's 5-4 now. But it's fair to point out Brady did it in a much longer time span.

Originally posted by SFTifoso:


In a court of law I bet you could prove Joe is the GOAT. Just hypothetical of course.

Already admitted his teams did things that were against the rules when he played.

Case dismissed.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Ignorance is bliss I guess. No rational person would say 5-2 is better than 4-0 with all the mistakes Brady has made in his sbs as well as barely being even close to dominant in any of his Super Bowl games. They have all been nailbiter's and Montana absolutely destroyed other teams. The first to Cincinnati game was a blowout at half time and the second one we moved the ball with ease we just fumbled three times and they had a special teams kick return? Too easy to make an argument. Done.

You guys do realize that Brady played against a bad defense and barely won yet again? He also threw an interception for a touchdown. Yeah he's the greatest of all time all right. I would take Brady or Elway as second best all time

Kind on contradict yourself with the 5-2 vs 4-0 thing by stating Elway is your 2nd or 3rd even tho he is only 2-3 and been blown out 3 times and didn't win one until he had an elite run game. If we use your logic that Montana is #1 because of 4-0, then there is zero chance Elway is 2 or 3 given the criteria you've based it around.

Elway sb stats

Vs giants: 22-37 304 yrds 1td 1int
Vs redskins: 14-38 257 yrds 1td 3int
Vs 49ers: 10-26 108 yrds 0td 2int
Vs gb: 12-22 123 yrds 0td 1int
Vs atl: 18-29 336 yrds 1td 1int

2nd or 3rd best all time?

Elway was a loser until very late in his career imo. He got old, lost all his crazy athleticism, the finally became the adult in the room and played conservative qb and won some super bowls.

What a waste. That dude.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Actually that's the way he started. Dwight Clark would be a slow TE in today's game.

See here's my problem; those who didn't watch those games are telling those of us who have and who lived through that era it wasn't what it was .... but you got stats... and people here complain about Paraag's analytics? Era-adjusted-stats? LOL. What nonsense. Otto Graham played in an era when football was more like rugby than today's modern game. The fact that he threw the ball in a league where not many offenses were passing is crazy. You can't "adjust" numbers for an absent concept and then compare it to a league (including college) that farms wideouts built for passing. And I 100% agree that Brady playing with today's rules means a longer span for peak performance unless people want to argue that "roughing the passer" is the same today as it was in 1985.

I'm sorry my mistake for posting here. I'm passed this argument because IMHO, it can't be argued.

Interesting. The article makes me want to look into graham and baugh some more, before i dismiss it.

Babe ruth once hit 61 home runs. I think the rest of the league hit 60? I guess he played in the wrong era, so it doesnt exist.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Elway was a loser until very late in his career imo. He got old, lost all his crazy athleticism, the finally became the adult in the room and played conservative qb and won some super bowls.

What a waste. That dude.

How elguapo even has Brady Elway up for debate is laughable. Smashes Brady for no blowouts and sb picks. Elway 2-3 in 5 sbs with 3tds and 8ints.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
It takes an entire team to dominate and the league is just not build for that nowadays. You give Joe a bunch of little white receivers and make him throw 50-60 times a game I'd like to see how many rings he racks up. The nature of the win is irrelevant it's how many rings you win and it's 5-4 now. But it's fair to point out Brady did it in a much longer time span.

Let's keep things in perspective, if the Atlanta Falcons didn't produce the biggest CHOKE in Super Bowl history then we wouldn't be talking about Tom Brady getting his 5th ring. If it was any other QB or team besides Brady and the Patriots that came back would there be this much coverage on it, I don't think so. Montana and Brady played in two completely different eras of the NFL so to say one is greater than the other will always be debatable, but Brady will always have the label of a cheater that will follow him. Montana was the master of the final 2 minute drill and always looked cool when he was running it. Is Brady the best of his era, hell ya but as for the greatest of all-time, nope!

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Elway was a loser until very late in his career imo. He got old, lost all his crazy athleticism, the finally became the adult in the room and played conservative qb and won some super bowls.

What a waste. That dude.

Loser? Waste? Hardly. John Elway was a great QB that took average teams to the SB . Yes, they lost 3 games but they were to superior teams in an era where the NFC was completely dominant. It wasnt his fault that the defense on those Denver teams got thrashed. Perhaps this will remind you...

SB 21 NYG has beaten the Niners 49-3 and Washington 17-0. Yes.. 3 points in 2 games. That defense was incredible and Montana's stats in that game were 8-15 with 0 tds and 2 interceptions. In the SB Phil Simms was 22-25 . Just a dominant team and nothing Elway was going to do to get a win.

SB 22 Washingtons offense totaled over 600 yards against the overmatched Denver D and scored 35 in the 2nd quarter. This game was simply a case of Denvers defense being whipping boys for the Skins. Again, nothing Elway was going to do to win this game.

SB 24 Niners,.. need I say more? This was probably the greatest 49ers team ever and Elway could have been Marino, Brady, Montana. and Staubach all wrapped into one and Denver still would have had no chance.

This is why calling a QB a loser because of the SB record is dumb. It is a team game and Denver was completely overmatched in all 3 of these SBs. He wasnt better when they won 2 in a row. It was simply a case of the Broncos now having a better defense, a better running game, and being able to really have a chance to win.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Elway was a loser until very late in his career imo. He got old, lost all his crazy athleticism, the finally became the adult in the room and played conservative qb and won some super bowls.

What a waste. That dude.

Google "The Drive Elway".

I saw plenty against sf. He always killed us. Doesnt matter. Too up and down. Too many haughty decisions on the field. Never liked reeves either. Button down thinker.

On offense anyway.

Originally posted by elguapo:
Montana also dominated. And was pretty flawless in the big games. Brady was far from flawless throwing interceptions and not blowing out any teams whatsoever. In the slightest way. Montana made a habit out of that. I can't believe people are actually arguing The comparison. Hell if Super Bowl wins is the only reason Brady propelled past Montana, I guess Bradshaw is as good as Montana or in the same league Huh?.......Not!

superbowl stats should not be the sole reason why a guy is the GOAT. Joe was close to flawless in the SBs but he was downright bad in a few playoff losses in the earlier rounds. You really do have to consider the entire body of work and not just the Big Game.

Originally posted by Young2005:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

It takes an entire team to dominate and the league is just not build for that nowadays. You give Joe a bunch of little white receivers and make him throw 50-60 times a game I'd like to see how many rings he racks up. The nature of the win is irrelevant it's how many rings you win and it's 5-4 now. But it's fair to point out Brady did it in a much longer time span.

Let's keep things in perspective, if the Atlanta Falcons didn't produce the biggest CHOKE in Super Bowl history then we wouldn't be talking about Tom Brady getting his 5th ring. If it was any other QB or team besides Brady and the Patriots that came back would there be this much coverage on it, I don't think so. Montana and Brady played in two completely different eras of the NFL so to say one is greater than the other will always be debatable, but Brady will always have the label of a cheater that will follow him. Montana was the master of the final 2 minute drill and always looked cool when he was running it. Is Brady the best of his era, hell ya but as for the greatest of all-time, nope!

Well said. I agree.

Originally posted by PA49ersfan:

Originally posted by Young2005:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
It takes an entire team to dominate and the league is just not build for that nowadays. You give Joe a bunch of little white receivers and make him throw 50-60 times a game I'd like to see how many rings he racks up. The nature of the win is irrelevant it's how many rings you win and it's 5-4 now. But it's fair to point out Brady did it in a much longer time span.

Let's keep things in perspective, if the Atlanta Falcons didn't produce the biggest CHOKE in Super Bowl history then we wouldn't be talking about Tom Brady getting his 5th ring. If it was any other QB or team besides Brady and the Patriots that came back would there be this much coverage on it, I don't think so. Montana and Brady played in two completely different eras of the NFL so to say one is greater than the other will always be debatable, but Brady will always have the label of a cheater that will follow him. Montana was the master of the final 2 minute drill and always looked cool when he was running it. Is Brady the best of his era, hell ya but as for the greatest of all-time, nope!

Well said. I agree.

I lean towards this as well. But, give credit to the pats. They took advantage.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Loser? Waste? Hardly. John Elway was a great QB that took average teams to the SB . Yes, they lost 3 games but they were to superior teams in an era where the NFC was completely dominant. It wasnt his fault that the defense on those Denver teams got thrashed. Perhaps this will remind you...

SB 21 NYG has beaten the Niners 49-3 and Washington 17-0. Yes.. 3 points in 2 games. That defense was incredible and Montana's stats in that game were 8-15 with 0 tds and 2 interceptions. In the SB Phil Simms was 22-25 . Just a dominant team and nothing Elway was going to do to get a win.

SB 22 Washingtons offense totaled over 600 yards against the overmatched Denver D and scored 35 in the 2nd quarter. This game was simply a case of Denvers defense being whipping boys for the Skins. Again, nothing Elway was going to do to win this game.

SB 24 Niners,.. need I say more? This was probably the greatest 49ers team ever and Elway could have been Marino, Brady, Montana. and Staubach all wrapped into one and Denver still would have had no chance.

This is why calling a QB a loser because of the SB record is dumb. It is a team game and Denver was completely overmatched in all 3 of these SBs. He wasnt better when they won 2 in a row. It was simply a case of the Broncos now having a better defense, a better running game, and being able to really have a chance to win.

No, it has nothing to do with super bowl wins or losses.

Too many ups and downs in regular season games. He would make some miraculous forty yard frozen rope throw off the back foot one minute, then toss a pick on screen or fumble going for the extra yard the next minute.

Just couldn't take it, frankly. I remember him beating us oin a Monday night game -- looked like a burning dumpster fire the whole game then pulls some crazy s*t out his arse and beats us on a game winning drive as time expired.

Too unreliable. No time for him.

We're still beating this subject like a dead horse?

I'm ready to move on.

Montana was the GOAT during that time

Brady is the GOAT for this era.

The case is CLOSED.

Might as well throw Aikman, Favre and Manning in this mix.