Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
You're reaching. Welker has a good chance for the hall and edelman is turning into all pro. Gronk is going in the hall.

oh my. are you serious? HOF is keeping T.O out of the hall. guys like isaac bruce still can't get in. how in the world welker can get into the hall? edelman is basically troy brown 2.0. do you think troy brown will ever get into the hall?

gronk is HOF worthy, but dude missed 3 playoff runs. he's the reason why brady lost to the giants in 11. with healthy gronk pats would've won that game. and brady did fine without gronk this year.

if we go into the weapons debate, nobody can touch brady. he broke TD record when he had a great WR. he's won SB without #1 or #2 WR. edelman is a product of a system. without earning brady's trust he becomes cole beasley at best elsewhere.

you can say montana was a better at throwing football. you can say montana was more clutch. you can say montana was more dominant. all arguable points.

but nobody has done more with less than brady. nobody.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
So manning is better now too?

IMO manning is the greatest regular season QB of all time. and he's the greatest football mind.

and manning's greatness is qualitatively different. because he has so much responsibility he often chokes in the big stage. if you look at manning's precision/timing offense, it goes bad alot when the stakes are high. because football being the ultimate team sports he has to rely on the play on the players alot including himself. and basically he's a victim of his own genius.

IMO, if you want to win the SB you take montana easily over manning. but if you want to build a franchise around the QB, you take manning over montana. IMO, that's a valid argument.

let's put it this way, for this 49ers team you take peyton manning. he will instantly make this team a playoff team.

My point remains, that Brady is the best of his era and Montana was the best of his era. Comparing them to identify the best becomes more complicated than people are willing to address.
THIS...

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by birdie2bogey:

Agree to disagree.

When Brady took a hit that knocked him out for the season, the NFL made that hit illegal and then said any grazing hit to the head is illegal.

Everytime Brady gets hit relatively hard he expects a flag and sadly, he gets them. As a byproduct, playing defense is much tougher now. I am sure players want to.put a good hit on the QB, but one roughing the passer equates to 15 yards and a likely fine. To make that fair, everytime the QB pleads for a flag for a legal hit should be under review for a fine (just a random thought).

I don't blame Brady or hold it against him, but the protection for the QB is very real right now. Yes, injuries happen in all eras and fortunately there is an emphasis on concussion awareness now, but because QBs still get hurt currently ignores that today's NFL puts an emphasis to protect their golden product (QB).

So the NFL didn't want to see their best players targeted in the worst spots? How is Brady to blame for that? Same injury happeened to Carson Palmer. But you guys want to act like those rules straight up make it impossible for defenders to make those hits.

They can still do them they'll just get flagged for it...and once again the hit that took out Montana was perfectly legal and still is today.

Brady does look for flags, just like every other smart QB in today's NFL. Many defenders actually commend Brady for taking hits like a champ. Everyone wants to pretend that Montana would thrive today and somehow would never get hurt...he may but we really have no idea. He would certainly be able to put up better stats but he could get hurt even worse today with bigger, stronger and faster players playing the game.

But....your offensive linemen are also bigger, stronger, faster, so that part evens out. What is a bigger factor is back then, the linemen were able to hit the receiver right off the line, throwing them off course or preventing them from being open quickly. Joe had to hold the ball longer, exposing himself to hits. And, back then, they were allowed to hit the QB; today you touch the QB, and the whistle blows.

Joe could write a book titled "Perfection." I know where he could get some never-used book covers pretty cheap....

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:

Lolz -- who are these Hall of Famer (s) with an "S" that you speak of? I only know of one -- Jerry Rice.

Whereas there's no doubt Randy Moss, Gronkowski, Welker, and Edelman all have a superb chance to get in.

This. Brady LOST with that amazing wr core so don't know what to tell these Brady supporters. 4-0 and no ints is almost as perfect as you can get in the sb (aside from that bad pass vs the bengals) but people often forget Brady threw too many ints in sbs to be considered the goat. He is clutch but his weakness is playing against a solid pass rush. Montana often owned way better pass rushing teams in the 80s that were a lot better than anyone Brady ever faced.

Do people realize Brady has NEVER been dominant in a sb? Good to great but never dominant. Whereas Montana carved up denvers NUMBER 1 DEFENSE with 55 points???? Can't believe people are arguing this. Also, Montana didn't have great offenses his first 2 sb victories

Originally posted by elguapo:
This. Brady LOST with that amazing wr core so don't know what to tell these Brady supporters. 4-0 and no ints is almost as perfect as you can get in the sb (aside from that bad pass vs the bengals) but people often forget Brady threw too many ints in sbs to be considered the goat. He is clutch but his weakness is playing against a solid pass rush. Montana often owned way better pass rushing teams in the 80s that were a lot better than anyone Brady ever faced.

Do people realize Brady has NEVER been dominant in a sb? Good to great but never dominant. Whereas Montana carved up denvers NUMBER 1 DEFENSE with 55 points???? Can't believe people are arguing this. Also, Montana didn't have great offenses his first 2 sb victories

Look at the playoff records, regular season records. Passing numbers. GOAT is not based solely on the Super Bowl.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by JimA49ers:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by birdie2bogey:

Agree to disagree.

When Brady took a hit that knocked him out for the season, the NFL made that hit illegal and then said any grazing hit to the head is illegal.

Everytime Brady gets hit relatively hard he expects a flag and sadly, he gets them. As a byproduct, playing defense is much tougher now. I am sure players want to.put a good hit on the QB, but one roughing the passer equates to 15 yards and a likely fine. To make that fair, everytime the QB pleads for a flag for a legal hit should be under review for a fine (just a random thought).

I don't blame Brady or hold it against him, but the protection for the QB is very real right now. Yes, injuries happen in all eras and fortunately there is an emphasis on concussion awareness now, but because QBs still get hurt currently ignores that today's NFL puts an emphasis to protect their golden product (QB).

So the NFL didn't want to see their best players targeted in the worst spots? How is Brady to blame for that? Same injury happeened to Carson Palmer. But you guys want to act like those rules straight up make it impossible for defenders to make those hits.

They can still do them they'll just get flagged for it...and once again the hit that took out Montana was perfectly legal and still is today.

Brady does look for flags, just like every other smart QB in today's NFL. Many defenders actually commend Brady for taking hits like a champ. Everyone wants to pretend that Montana would thrive today and somehow would never get hurt...he may but we really have no idea. He would certainly be able to put up better stats but he could get hurt even worse today with bigger, stronger and faster players playing the game.

But....your offensive linemen are also bigger, stronger, faster, so that part evens out. What is a bigger factor is back then, the linemen were able to hit the receiver right off the line, throwing them off course or preventing them from being open quickly. Joe had to hold the ball longer, exposing himself to hits. And, back then, they were allowed to hit the QB; today you touch the QB, and the whistle blows.

100% agree. It's hard trying to explain to someone who's only seen a significant amount of football in THIS ERA and then them only looking at stats to evaluate other eras and make a poor attempt at equivalency. There is none, as Joe pointed out in his article. If you went back in time and took Julio Jones and told him to play with Otto Graham or others from that era, he wouldn't fit as well because he would be asked to do a lot of things outside of his abilities. Were those guys any less great simply because they don't have today's stats? Of course not.

Didn't the Rams try having an Olympic sprinter as a receiver a long time ago? Didn't work out, as again, it wasn't just speed back then. Now, I think a sprinter would do well.

Originally posted by natediaz:

IMO manning is the greatest regular season QB of all time. and he's the greatest football mind.

and manning's greatness is qualitatively different. because he has so much responsibility he often chokes in the big stage. if you look at manning's precision/timing offense, it goes bad alot when the stakes are high. because football being the ultimate team sports he has to rely on the play on the players alot including himself. and basically he's a victim of his own genius.

IMO, if you want to win the SB you take montana easily over manning. but if you want to build a franchise around the QB, you take manning over montana. IMO, that's a valid argument.

let's put it this way, for this 49ers team you take peyton manning. he will instantly make this team a playoff team.

I have no idea what you are saying with "mannings genius is qualitatively different" gobbledeegook.

And I can't believe you are saying Manning is a better regular season QB than Joe. You have GOT to be kidding. Joe built the 49ers from 6-10 to superbowl winners in two years and blew away the entire league running Walsh's WCO for the rest of his career. Joes post snap execution and instincts were consistently superior.

You are missing the boat completely with your coy dismissals of Joe. Man I do not think you lived through those years at ALL. Joe made the 9ers the 9ers.

Manning made the Colts synonymous with....nothing. Come on man.

Joe Montana's legacy does not need this thread.

The mentality of the fan today is what happened last game, not 40, 50, or 60 years ago. I remember Johnny Unitas, he was the undisputed top QB of his time. Most fans under 60 don't even know his name. In a short period of time fans will forget about Brady and move on to the next GOAT. The best I've ever seen is Joe, but that's only my opinion.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
The mentality of the fan today is what happened last game, not 40, 50, or 60 years ago. I remember Johnny Unitas, he was the undisputed top QB of his time. Most fans under 60 don't even know his name. In a short period of time fans will forget about Brady and move on to the next GOAT. The best I've ever seen is Joe, but that's only my opinion.

Nothing wrong with your opinion (many agree).

4-0 in SBs and no INTs... it was harder to do that back then than it would be in today's games when [the league (obviously) favors the offense over the defense] (THAT"S A FACT). #PassingLeague #

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by elguapo:
This. Brady LOST with that amazing wr core so don't know what to tell these Brady supporters. 4-0 and no ints is almost as perfect as you can get in the sb (aside from that bad pass vs the bengals) but people often forget Brady threw too many ints in sbs to be considered the goat. He is clutch but his weakness is playing against a solid pass rush. Montana often owned way better pass rushing teams in the 80s that were a lot better than anyone Brady ever faced.

Do people realize Brady has NEVER been dominant in a sb? Good to great but never dominant. Whereas Montana carved up denvers NUMBER 1 DEFENSE with 55 points???? Can't believe people are arguing this. Also, Montana didn't have great offenses his first 2 sb victories

Look at the playoff records, regular season records. Passing numbers. GOAT is not based solely on the Super Bowl.

and even if it is SBs, Brady now has 5, most all time. and if he plays 4 more years like he wants to, he's also going to have basically every QB record. not sure what more needs to do. some people just can't let it go.

Originally posted by natediaz:
IMO manning is the greatest regular season QB of all time. and he's the greatest football mind.

and manning's greatness is qualitatively different. because he has so much responsibility he often chokes in the big stage. if you look at manning's precision/timing offense, it goes bad alot when the stakes are high. because football being the ultimate team sports he has to rely on the play on the players alot including himself. and basically he's a victim of his own genius.

IMO, if you want to win the SB you take montana easily over manning. but if you want to build a franchise around the QB, you take manning over montana. IMO, that's a valid argument.

let's put it this way, for this 49ers team you take peyton manning. he will instantly make this team a playoff team.

Manning didn't choke because he's a victim of his own genius...what kind of garbage is that?

Some guys have the ability to come up with big plays in big moments and inspire their teammates to play better. Manning isn't one of those guys. He had the "chokes in big games" label before he even played a snap in the NFL and he did nothing to disprove that.

Montana and Brady both had that ability. Manning is the greatest regular season QB because of his stats and wins but when the playoffs rolled around you basically waited until his team screwed up.

The two SBs he actually one - one was because his defense carried him in the first two games and Reche Caldwell couldn't catch perfectly thrown passes to him and the Pats defense couldn't buy a stop at the end of that AFC Championship game. Let's be honest...Chicago with Rex Grossman was not a SB team.

Then last year he won because of his defense. Every time he had to be the main guy he bombed in the playoffs.

Play Brady all the way till you get to the SB. He will lead you to the SB (he is the GOAT, but just not in SBs).

BUT!!!! Throw in the SB GOAT (MONTANA) to guarantee the victory...

...you don't want to risk it in overtime OR (if) we had to face Eli Manning (depending on conference).