Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by elguapo:

This. Brady LOST with that amazing wr core so don't know what to tell these Brady supporters. 4-0 and no ints is almost as perfect as you can get in the sb (aside from that bad pass vs the bengals) but people often forget Brady threw too many ints in sbs to be considered the goat. He is clutch but his weakness is playing against a solid pass rush. Montana often owned way better pass rushing teams in the 80s that were a lot better than anyone Brady ever faced.

Do people realize Brady has NEVER been dominant in a sb? Good to great but never dominant. Whereas Montana carved up denvers NUMBER 1 DEFENSE with 55 points???? Can't believe people are arguing this. Also, Montana didn't have great offenses his first 2 sb victories

Look at the playoff records, regular season records. Passing numbers. GOAT is not based solely on the Super Bowl.

and even if it is SBs, Brady now has 5, most all time. and if he plays 4 more years like he wants to, he's also going to have basically every QB record. not sure what more needs to do. some people just can't let it go.

I know some people are in denial bc 5>4 but forget it took Brady 5 more years to hit a 4th and that's NOT including his 2 sb losses with moss and welker and gronk. All too easy. I guess Bradshaw is better than Marino bc he has 4 sb wins. Hahaha. Lack of logic is astounding

Brady is changing the parameters of the debate with his longevity. Hes a productive 39, not a sonny jurgenson 39. But i still favor other athletic factors.

Another three four years, another super bowl appearance or two, things will be different.

Originally posted by genus49:
Manning didn't choke because he's a victim of his own genius...what kind of garbage is that?

Some guys have the ability to come up with big plays in big moments and inspire their teammates to play better. Manning isn't one of those guys. He had the "chokes in big games" label before he even played a snap in the NFL and he did nothing to disprove that.

Montana and Brady both had that ability. Manning is the greatest regular season QB because of his stats and wins but when the playoffs rolled around you basically waited until his team screwed up.

The two SBs he actually one - one was because his defense carried him in the first two games and Reche Caldwell couldn't catch perfectly thrown passes to him and the Pats defense couldn't buy a stop at the end of that AFC Championship game. Let's be honest...Chicago with Rex Grossman was not a SB team.

Then last year he won because of his defense. Every time he had to be the main guy he bombed in the playoffs.

i get all the manning's criticism. it's valid and it's hard to argue for him. but i also know how great he was. dude was nasty in his prime. and he is a 5 time mvp although couple of them could've gone to rivers or brees.

i just think he gets blamed too much for his playoff fails. IMO he had too much control of the offense. sometimes it's better to takes some orders by ocoord. also manning's team, relatively speaking, were just too finesse. they weren't built for the playoffs. that's the downside of the playing for the dome team. and when he got spanked by the seahawks, it was visible he didn't have an arm strength to go against the fast and physical defense. he had no fastball. you gotta have a fastball in the playoffs.

if you compare the playoffs montana looks like MJ and manning looks like a scrub. but if you look at the overall body of the work, i believe manning has a valid argument over anybody including brady. i'm a big manning fan. he does have 4SB appearances and 2SBs. it's not like he never got there. i value overall bulk stats, 5mvps, all pros, his ability to carry the team, and etc.

IMO he is a top 3 all time greatest. i just happened to have him at #2 behind brady. slightly ahead of montana because of the longevity and his impact on the game.

Seems like theres always avreason why somebodys better than joe.troll on.

Originally posted by JimA49ers:
Didn't the Rams try having an Olympic sprinter as a receiver a long time ago? Didn't work out, as again, it wasn't just speed back then. Now, I think a sprinter would do well.

Cowboys had one who made the HOF, Bob Hayes.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000784522/article/tom-brady-vs-joe-montana-too-much-heat-on-kyle-shanahan

"The idea of variance can be difficult to grasp. Just as Brady is a pair of coaching brain cramps away from dropping to 3-4 in the Super Bowl, he's also a pair of Asante Samuel and Wes Welker drops away from a perfect 7-0 résumé. If Bengals cornerback Lewis Billups hadn't bungled an easy interception in the end zone, similarly, Montana wouldn't have been deified for the past three decades."

Chris weselling looks like a thirty something stooge who never saw joe play. He and mike florio founded the tom brady foot worshippers club. They make a living propagandizing every thing in the current nfl to promote a multibillion dollar business as the pinnacle of football achivement. Just like florio and kawakami he picks on one flawed argument to justify his incorrect conclusion.

People like myself argue joe is the best qb of the post rozelle era based on winning achivemnt, stats, and physical skill set. If you weigh those criteria by devaluing skill set, brady wind. If you increase skill set weight and diminish team achievemnt, rodgers and montana win out. Im the latter camp. Wesseling seems like a record guy he will take the stats and probably never saw joe play. Whatever. Don't pay attention to demagogues who exaggerate and inflame discussion. We used to have journalists. Along came the internet, and now we have instigaters.

Originally posted by JimA49ers:
But....your offensive linemen are also bigger, stronger, faster, so that part evens out. What is a bigger factor is back then, the linemen were able to hit the receiver right off the line, throwing them off course or preventing them from being open quickly. Joe had to hold the ball longer, exposing himself to hits. And, back then, they were allowed to hit the QB; today you touch the QB, and the whistle blows.

you are forgetting one big factor GAME SPEED. and regardless of the oline size, today's defense is bigger. getting hit by JJ Watt is different than getting hit by a 240lb DE. doesn't matter how the game is played today. QBs still get sacked. for me the most

montana was sacked less than brady per year basis.

But the qbs dont get hit dude. Kill shots are all but illegal. Glad to see you are back on the board to put down joe. I think you should make a case for rivers roethlesburger and wilson. We havent read that yet. That would be fresh.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

But the qbs dont get hit dude. Kill shots are all but illegal. Glad to see you are back on the board to put down joe. I think you should make a case for rivers roethlesburger and wilson. We havent read that yet. That would be fresh.

And when they do get hit, someone is most likely getting fined.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
But the qbs dont get hit dude. Kill shots are all but illegal. Glad to see you are back on the board to put down joe. I think you should make a case for rivers roethlesburger and wilson. We havent read that yet. That would be fresh.

dan marino played 260+ games. he threw 48tds and 44tds in the era where QB weren't as important.

and there's no such thing as a killshot. sack is a sack. you are talking about 60's and 70's when things got dirty alot.

this was LT, the greatest defensive player ever.





brady will survive hits like that because let's face it brady ain't some big macho man. he will protect himself and take the sack. remember brady will be top 2-3 biggest QB in the 80's.

Your gif shows a hit that is illegal today. Whatever. Nobody said brady is a wuss. Not here to put him down.

I rewatched all Montana plays in Super Bowl 24 recently.....only because there's a youtube video only showing just his throws and runs.

Montana did not carve that D quite brilliantly like Young did the Chargers.....but that was the #1 defense indeed.

I don't know the ins and outs of how good that Bronco D was....it was #1 points allowed but figure that 12 of their 16 game season was against the AFC, not the NFC.

Slowly but surely Joe smashed that D. Gotta figure that Bronco D was better than the Falcons D this year.

Again the real argument here is to compare '81-'90 versus '01-'10....

If Brady retired after 2010 or had a so so career with another team for 2 more years, would we be talking GOAT with him?

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Your gif shows a hit that is illegal today. Whatever. Nobody said brady is a wuss. Not here to put him down.

That's not illegal. He hits him on top of the shoulder, not the head.

And once again...just because something is illegal doesn't mean some guys wouldn't do it to get their team in better position to win the game. Plenty of scumbags playing today who would love to put Brady into the broadcast booth.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
I rewatched all Montana plays in Super Bowl 24 recently.....only because there's a youtube video only showing just his throws and runs.

Montana did not carve that D quite brilliantly like Young did the Chargers.....but that was the #1 defense indeed.

I don't know the ins and outs of how good that Bronco D was....it was #1 points allowed but figure that 12 of their 16 game season was against the AFC, not the NFC.

Slowly but surely Joe smashed that D. Gotta figure that Bronco D was better than the Falcons D this year.

Again the real argument here is to compare '81-'90 versus '01-'10....

If Brady retired after 2010 or had a so so career with another team for 2 more years, would we be talking GOAT with him?

Of course not...but that's not what happened which is why we are.

Playing in a salary cap era is much tougher to have the type of success Brady and the Patriots have had. He's done it the "don't make mistakes" and win with strong running game and good defense way. He's done it with throw nearly every down way. He's done it with good players and he's done it with bad players around him.

I get it. We're 49ers fans and it's nice to know we had the greatest play for us but you can only hold on to something for so long before the excuses why Brady isn't the best just become sad. Soon as you start throwing out hypotheticals and not facts you've lost.

But in terms of comparing defenses it's too tough to do vs the eras. Offenses back then were a lot more run heavy. I'd say it a certainty that this Atlanta D is a lot faster and probably bigger than that Denver's defense. So who knows if you flip the two defenses how they do in the different eras.