Joe Montana Legacy Secured

Originally posted by jcs:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000784522/article/tom-brady-vs-joe-montana-too-much-heat-on-kyle-shanahan

"The idea of variance can be difficult to grasp. Just as Brady is a pair of coaching brain cramps away from dropping to 3-4 in the Super Bowl, he's also a pair of Asante Samuel and Wes Welker drops away from a perfect 7-0 résumé. If Bengals cornerback Lewis Billups hadn't bungled an easy interception in the end zone, similarly, Montana wouldn't have been deified for the past three decades."

This footage has to be faked? Montana was so perfect in Super Bowls that a defender never even made contact with one of his passes, let alone dropped an easy interception.

Of course. If joe throws one interception in four super bowls, he's a bum. What kind of wesseling nimrod argument is that.



If pete carroll runs marshawn lynch, were not having this conversation either. Or edelman drops a circus catch. And tyree still makes his. Now nobody is talking about brady, like no one is talking about jim kelly.

But thats for internet "journalists" to speculate over.its complicated enough just to deal with the facts at hand.

Originally posted by genus49:

That's not illegal. He hits him on top of the shoulder, not the head.

And once again...just because something is illegal doesn't mean some guys wouldn't do it to get their team in better position to win the game. Plenty of scumbags playing today who would love to put Brady into the broadcast booth.

The rule is no hit above the shoulder. Ask ahmad brooks if you dont believe me.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Of course. If joe throws one interception in four super bowls, he's a bum. What kind of wesseling nimrod argument is that.

If pete carroll runs marshawn lynch, were not having this conversation either. Or edelman drops a circus catch. And tyree still makes his. Now nobody is talking about brady, like no one is talking about jim kelly.

But thats for internet "journalists" to speculate over.its complicated enough just to deal with the facts at hand.

if phil jackson didn't become a coach maybe MJ never wins 6 rings? maybe with doug collins MJ wins only 2 rings?

you can't play 'what if' games. these things happened. tyree catch happened. manningham catch happened. kearse catch happened. butler INT happened. edelman catch happened.

brady won 5 rings. it happened. he went to 7 SBs. that happened. 7SBs in 15 healthy starting seasons. IMO pats are poised to go to another SB next year. they are loaded. has cap space and they might really get a 1st round pick for jimmy garoppolo. and if brady gets to the SB again that' 8 in 16 healthy seasons.

you gotta look at the overall body of work. it's tough to argue against brady. there's a reason why so many people (both fans and media) came out and crowned him as the GOAT.

just rewatched the SB 51 again. brady was brilliant in the 2nd half. these throws weren't instinct plays. it was a result of a beautiful chemistry between brady and WRs. it's a result of knowing what defense gave it to him and exploiting the weaknesses. i thought it was beautiful. he did the same against our defense which IMO was still great that year. just the level of adjustments brady makes before the snap alone make him great. and then the execution in a critical time got him to where he is now.

i'm not arguing today's QBs gets protected more than ever before. yeah, if montana played in today's era he probably plays 3-4 more years if he does play at 215-220lb.

but again, im not playing what if games when i'm comparing players. you can't time travel. you can play hypotheticals. just compare what they've done.

brady is the GOAT to me because he did the most with less, got to 7SBs, be clutch, great in the regular season, won mvps, won SB mvps, and most importantly scared da hell out of defenses. and i really think brady had 3 years of elite years in him. that's 3 more years of stat padding. more icing on the cake

Originally posted by natediaz:
i'm not arguing today's QBs gets protected more than ever before. yeah, if montana played in today's era he probably plays 3-4 more years if he does play at 215-220lb.

but again, im not playing what if games when i'm comparing players. you can't time travel. you can play hypotheticals. just compare what they've done.

brady is the GOAT to me because he did the most with less, got to 7SBs, be clutch, great in the regular season, won mvps, won SB mvps, and most importantly scared da hell out of defenses. and i really think brady had 3 years of elite years in him. that's 3 more years of stat padding. more icing on the cake

Great because I hate the "what if" stuff myself... let's just speak facts. Forget about the bigger/faster/stronger DL going after Montana because that never happened (it's another what if scenario), and stop labeling the DLs as 240 lb back then (either mention the ones that were or just say some) because a lot of them weighed much more than that and a lot of the LBs weighed about that much (240). Not all but a lot.

You ever watch Brady hold on to the ball for more than a few seconds? It has happened A LOT in his career. Guess why! Well here's a hint, his oline is bigger/faster/stronger than Montana's ever was and they protect him from those bigger/faster/stronger DL guys. So yeah, let's not forget about adding the oline of these days when bringing up the comparison factor (bigger/faster/stronger DL going after Joe). Please, if you're going to make an argument for one guy, don't leave out the part that also benefits the other QB even if he's not the one you're biased about. Because, more than likely, you'll get a case in point that will shoot down your opinion or fact.

I'll lend you an example of giving both QBs props, but stating facts for the QB I am biased about (Montana)... I believe Brady is the GOAT... as best QB all around except when it come to SBs. Yes, he has 5 and Joe has 4 so, Brady wins that argument. HOWEVER, Joe is 4-0 and got his 4th ring in less time than it took Brady.

Here's the hook. I'll take Brady all through the regular season because he's the GOAT and will likely get me to the SB more times than Joe, BUT once I'm there, I would swap QBs.

One thing is certain, Joe never choked in any SB and he never needed OT to win one. Montana is the GOAT when it comes to SBs. THAT'S A FACT!

And if someone wants to come in here and start bringing up "it's a team sport BS" .... well yes, I believe it is, but what I mean by the BS part is, you can't make a case for one QB w/out making the same case or backing the QB you're not biased about. I'll just ignore lame ass posts.

Originally posted by jcs:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000784522/article/tom-brady-vs-joe-montana-too-much-heat-on-kyle-shanahan

"The idea of variance can be difficult to grasp. Just as Brady is a pair of coaching brain cramps away from dropping to 3-4 in the Super Bowl, he's also a pair of Asante Samuel and Wes Welker drops away from a perfect 7-0 résumé. If Bengals cornerback Lewis Billups hadn't bungled an easy interception in the end zone, similarly, Montana wouldn't have been deified for the past three decades."

What If:

Montana sticks with Walsh all through his career?

Walsh / Montana stuck together as long as Billy / Brady?

Montana played as long as Brady?

Clark misses "the catch"

Rice never had the historical dropsies early in his career?

Rice never used "stickum"?

Craig didn't come up with a case of fumbling and 49ers go on to a 3peat?

What if a midget was tall, what if a fat lady was skinny, what if a Mormon was an Atheist, what if this emoji was our mascot -->

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by jcs:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000784522/article/tom-brady-vs-joe-montana-too-much-heat-on-kyle-shanahan

"The idea of variance can be difficult to grasp. Just as Brady is a pair of coaching brain cramps away from dropping to 3-4 in the Super Bowl, he's also a pair of Asante Samuel and Wes Welker drops away from a perfect 7-0 résumé. If Bengals cornerback Lewis Billups hadn't bungled an easy interception in the end zone, similarly, Montana wouldn't have been deified for the past three decades."

What If:

Montana sticks with Walsh all through his career?

Walsh / Montana stuck together as long as Billy / Brady?

Montana played as long as Brady?

Clark misses "the catch"

Rice never had the historical dropsies early in his career?

Rice never used "stickum"?

Craig didn't come up with a case of fumbling and 49ers go on to a 3peat?

What if a midget was tall, what if a fat lady was skinny, what if a Mormon was an Atheist, what if this emoji was our mascot -->

I still challenge anyone to find me video proof of a significant catch that Rice made, where he would've needed tack spray. Montana threw a perfect ball. He didn't need to be Cris Carter.

Originally posted by LVJay:
Great because I hate the "what if" stuff myself... let's just speak facts. Forget about the bigger/faster/stronger DL going after Montana because that never happened (it's another what if scenario), and stop labeling the DLs as 240 lb back then (either mention the ones that were or just say some) because a lot of them weighed much more than that and a lot of the LBs weighed about that much (240). Not all but a lot.

You ever watch Brady hold on to the ball for more than a few seconds? It has happened A LOT in his career. Guess why! Well here's a hint, his oline is bigger/faster/stronger than Montana's ever was and they protect him from those bigger/faster/stronger DL guys. So yeah, let's not forget about adding the oline of these days when bringing up the comparison factor (bigger/faster/stronger DL going after Joe). Please, if you're going to make an argument for one guy, don't leave out the part that also benefits the other QB even if he's not the one you're biased about. Because, more than likely, you'll get a case in point that will shoot down your opinion or fact.

I'll lend you an example of giving both QBs props, but stating facts for the QB I am biased about (Montana)... I believe Brady is the GOAT... as best QB all around except when it come to SBs. Yes, he has 5 and Joe has 4 so, Brady wins that argument. HOWEVER, Joe is 4-0 and got his 4th ring in less time than it took Brady.

Here's the hook. I'll take Brady all through the regular season because he's the GOAT and will likely get me to the SB more times than Joe, BUT once I'm there, I would swap QBs.

One thing is certain, Joe never choked in any SB and he never needed OT to win one. Montana is the GOAT when it comes to SBs. THAT'S A FACT!

And if someone wants to come in here and start bringing up "it's a team sport BS" .... well yes, I believe it is, but what I mean by the BS part is, you can't make a case for one QB w/out making the same case or backing the QB you're not biased about. I'll just ignore lame ### posts.

alot of wrong information here. brady gets rid of the ball quicker than anybody. this was stat from 4 years ago
https://www.profootballfocus.com/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

brady almost always gets rid of the ball within 2.5 sec. that's a fact. so your point about OL blocking DL doesn't even make sense because brady gets rid of the ball before he gets hit.

and whenever these QBs get sacked brady usually gets sacked by a bigger players.

montana got sacked 313 times in his career. brady? 417. so brady got hit 100 more times and on average he got hit by bigger faster players. yes, i'm sure many of the sacks back then weren't sacks in today's standards. but IMO it evens out because it's a fact that brady played longer and got hit more on paper.

and yes, it's a team sports. you aren't taking montana over brady. you are taking niners over pats. IMO it's no brainer. niners are much more dominant team because of the none salary cap era. montana to rice was simply unstoppable. gronk is dominant but he's always hurt.

80's niners team would look like broncos D + falcons O and some. that's how talented niners were. if you look at how pats are constructed, they aren't even top 10 in talent IMO. i really thought falcons and my seahawks were much more talented than the pats. but pats maximize player's ability. and they have tom brady who has an innate ability to bring the best out of the players around him. IMO that's another part of brady's greatness. he doesn't need jerry rice. he just need WRs who will work hard and earn brady's trust. i think edelman is a warrior and he is a very good player. but IMO jerry rice's little mole on his thigh is greater than edelman.

i just don't know how pats do it, but pats really don't have anybody worth a darn on O except gronk who's always hurt. just few years ago brady was throwing to 2 rookies who are basically done in this league. remember kenbril thompkins? where is he now? remember reche caldwell? i remember when deion branch came to us and he was just ok. dude is a very good #3 WR on a good team. pretty good #2 on a bad team. that's all he was. brady made him. i don't know how pats and brady survived all those years with branch as #1. that's insane to me.

Interesting stat. The fastest release in the nfl belongs to rodgers, thats obvious. I think the stat measures the type of passing game being called. The pats target a lot of quick underneath routes, so it makes sense the delivery times are lower .

Originally posted by natediaz:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Great because I hate the "what if" stuff myself... let's just speak facts. Forget about the bigger/faster/stronger DL going after Montana because that never happened (it's another what if scenario), and stop labeling the DLs as 240 lb back then (either mention the ones that were or just say some) because a lot of them weighed much more than that and a lot of the LBs weighed about that much (240). Not all but a lot.

You ever watch Brady hold on to the ball for more than a few seconds? It has happened A LOT in his career. Guess why! Well here's a hint, his oline is bigger/faster/stronger than Montana's ever was and they protect him from those bigger/faster/stronger DL guys. So yeah, let's not forget about adding the oline of these days when bringing up the comparison factor (bigger/faster/stronger DL going after Joe). Please, if you're going to make an argument for one guy, don't leave out the part that also benefits the other QB even if he's not the one you're biased about. Because, more than likely, you'll get a case in point that will shoot down your opinion or fact.

I'll lend you an example of giving both QBs props, but stating facts for the QB I am biased about (Montana)... I believe Brady is the GOAT... as best QB all around except when it come to SBs. Yes, he has 5 and Joe has 4 so, Brady wins that argument. HOWEVER, Joe is 4-0 and got his 4th ring in less time than it took Brady.

Here's the hook. I'll take Brady all through the regular season because he's the GOAT and will likely get me to the SB more times than Joe, BUT once I'm there, I would swap QBs.

One thing is certain, Joe never choked in any SB and he never needed OT to win one. Montana is the GOAT when it comes to SBs. THAT'S A FACT!

And if someone wants to come in here and start bringing up "it's a team sport BS" .... well yes, I believe it is, but what I mean by the BS part is, you can't make a case for one QB w/out making the same case or backing the QB you're not biased about. I'll just ignore lame ### posts.

alot of wrong information here. brady gets rid of the ball quicker than anybody. this was stat from 4 years ago
https://www.profootballfocus.com/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

brady almost always gets rid of the ball within 2.5 sec. that's a fact. so your point about OL blocking DL doesn't even make sense because brady gets rid of the ball before he gets hit.

and whenever these QBs get sacked brady usually gets sacked by a bigger players.

montana got sacked 313 times in his career. brady? 417. so brady got hit 100 more times and on average he got hit by bigger faster players. yes, i'm sure many of the sacks back then weren't sacks in today's standards. but IMO it evens out because it's a fact that brady played longer and got hit more on paper.

and yes, it's a team sports. you aren't taking montana over brady. you are taking niners over pats. IMO it's no brainer. niners are much more dominant team because of the none salary cap era. montana to rice was simply unstoppable. gronk is dominant but he's always hurt.

Of course he gets rid of the ball fast, no one is disputing that. BUT if you even watched any of his games in the past, you would know that there were times he needed to hold on to the ball longer than two seconds. I guess you don't want to admit that he has had elite talent on the oline pretty much most of his career.

NVM, like I said, if you can't make a case for both when there is a case to be made, just ignore me... you're getting eaten up in here. Go take a nap or something

Montana was mobile and bought a lot of time with his moves >>> Brady moves around a little while in the pocket. You don't think Montana would've faired even better behind some of those elite olines Brady prospered from?? Of course you don't want to bring that up with all your hypotheticals, "what ifs" and what not... please dude lol!!!

It's a little too early to talk about the talent that Brady had / has... for all we know some of those guys will end up in the HOF. That defense back in the day had a lot of talent (especially the defense that kicked off the 1st SB vs the Rams).

Originally posted by LVJay:
Of course he gets rid of the ball fast, no one is disputing that. BUT if you even watched any of his games in the past, you would know that there were times he needed to hold on to the ball longer than two seconds. I guess you don't want to admit that he has had elite talent on the oline pretty much most of his career.

NVM, like I said, if you can't make a case for both when there is a case to be made, just ignore me... you're getting eaten up in here. Go take a nap or something

Montana was mobile and bought a lot of time with his moves >>> Brady moves around a little while in the pocket. You don't think Montana would've faired even better behind some of those elite olines Brady prospered from?? Of course you don't want to bring that up with all your hypotheticals, "what ifs" and what not... please dude lol!!!

It's a little too early to talk about the talent that Brady had / has... for all we know some of those guys will end up in the HOF. That defense back in the day had a lot of talent when Brady worst started.

this is the first time i've heard pats oline are elite. are you serious? normally pats oline is built around bunch of dudes who are easily replaceable. they played with bunch of rookies alot too. and the way brady got abused in the big game tells me pats oline flat out average. they were overmatched against my seahawks. they were overmatched against the falcons. they were overmatched against the broncos last year.

pats oline is a product of brady. brady makes them because brady wears defense down. the biggest difference between rodgers and brady to me is that brady will control the tempo of the game. brady dictates the pace. whenever you play the pats, you play their game. pats don't really have a big game changers. so they are usually methodical in their approach. so pats against a great defense struggle early, but grind the win out at the end because like the falcons they get tired at the end. .

but by no means pats oline are elite group like titans or cowboys. time after time they got exposed in the big game.

Based on the trend of this thread, this is gonna be A VERY LONG OFF-SEASON!!!

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Interesting stat. The fastest release in the nfl belongs to rodgers, thats obvious. I think the stat measures the type of passing game being called. The pats target a lot of quick underneath routes, so it makes sense the delivery times are lower .

you mean brady?

yeah, brady dinks and dunks because well pats don't have a dominant WR anymore. but brady actually threw 20+ yard alot this year mostly to hogan and mitchell.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2016/

brady would've finished top 7 if he played all season in air yards similar spot to my boy wilson. that's not bad considering the weapons brady had. wilson had ton of air yards because well he airs it out alot. actually too much for my liking. we couldn't sustain drive because we always look for big chunk of plays we didn't have.