Follow us on Bluesky →

There are 228 users in the forums

Minnesota Vikings, week 1 coaches film analysis

Shop Find 49ers gear online
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Originally posted by Red1:
Although I've been watching NFL for sometime I 've never really bothered with all the technical intricacies on each play.

Very interesting read and an excellent thread, thanks.


Yeah...I am a life long fan and when these threads popped up it really enhanced some of the detail for me in a way you just don't get watching it live. I am huge fan of the work guys do in here. Has anyone extended a invite to our Aussie friends?...a lot of American rules football questions in the Hayne threads...this stuff is like an infusion of direct knowledge of the intricacies of the game.

Yeah, I think most of us are aware of it.

I stare at it for a while, realize I'm looking at it upside down, turn it the right way up and still don't understand. Take a break, come back and stare some more. It takes baby steps and bite size chunks for sure.
How did anyone think the vikes should beat us? I'm rewatching the game, the talent isn't close. 49ers should've blown them out
[ Edited by fister30 on Sep 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM ]
  • All22
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,625
Member Milestone: This is post number 300 for All22.
Originally posted by fister30:
How did anyone think the vikes should beat us? I'm rewatching the game, the talent isn't close. 49ers should've blown them out

Arguably we've been the most talented team in the league since 2011.
  • All22
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,625
It also helps that we had nothing about our offense on film. Even the pre-season stuff didn't look anything like what we ran against the Vikes.
  • Red1
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 88
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Yeah...I am a life long fan and when these threads popped up it really enhanced some of the detail for me in a way you just don't get watching it live. I am huge fan of the work guys do in here. Has anyone extended a invite to our Aussie friends?...a lot of American rules football questions in the Hayne threads...this stuff is like an infusion of direct knowledge of the intricacies of the game.

I was going to make my fellow Aussies aware but our friendly Mod English has linked a few threads including this one in The Hayne Plane thread.

So would most people say the OL is more technical than the DL or both have there moments. Obviously the D's instructions are to get to the QB and/or cover your man. I always thought the OL was just blocking their man to allow the QB or RB to find the space. It seems that it is well beyond that with certain plays deliberately moving in a certain direction Is this correct or am just like that new guy rambling about nothing.

Here's my contribution for any of the new lads.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football_positions
[ Edited by Red1 on Sep 18, 2015 at 8:44 PM ]
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,058
Originally posted by Red1:
I was going to make my fellow Aussies aware but our friendly Mod English has linked a few threads including this one in The Hayne Plane thread.

So would most people say the OL is more technical than the DL or both have there moments. Obviously the D's instructions are to get to the QB and/or cover your man. I always thought the OL was just blocking their man to allow the QB or RB to find the space. It seems that it is well beyond that with certain plays deliberately moving in a certain direction Is this correct or am just like that new guy rambling about nothing.

Here's my contribution for any of the new lads.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football_positions
Referring to the OL/DL, the instructions are easy, relatively speaking. It's the technique needed to execute those instructions that take world class skill. Technique of every part of the body. Hand fighting is important as DL try to keep the OL's hands off them. The DL has many ways to force the OL to think on the fly from stunting, slanting, and blitzing. Your best bet is searching online if you want to really find out more. Both position groups are technical and there is no wrong answer as to which is more technical.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,058
Another weird coverage from Mangini

When Fangio drops 8 into coverage and rushes 3, it's always 5 underneath defenders with 3 deep.
Here, Mangini will rush 3 and play 2-4-2 behind it.

3Q 2nd & 20 (after Bethea's sack)


2-4-2. I think they are pattern matching because Acker (20) will leave his zone to come up and cover the RB (blue line).
Brock (26) has let one WR go by (knows Reid is back there for help) and sees another WR come into his area. Brock should be matching that second WR into his area, but he won't.


Brock doesn't match that WR in his area and that WR is wide open. Because Acker (20) leaves his area, the TE (red) runs over and catches a 19 yard pass. The three man rush produced very slow, little pressure.


No idea what's supposed to happen with Acker. Is he right for coming up to cover the RB? Should the shallow defender on that side of the field covered the RB instead? Are they even pattern matching? If they are, why didn't Brock match? Caught by the TE Rudolph in Acker's zone along the sideline.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,058
With the game 10-0 and MIN driving, this was a key defensive stop.
4Q 3rd & 6
Tartt (29) is shown faking the blitz right before the snap. It's Bow (red) who is the 4th rusher as Brooks drops into coverage.
49ers show a Cover2 shell. The blue lines show the rotations. It's cover3 with pattern match (I think).


Reid rotates down, while Bethea moves to the middle of the field. It's MOFC. Teddy looks to his left, With Reid rotating down, Teddy should have stayed with the backside WR.


Teddy looks strongside. This is the frame that makes me think it's cover3 with pattern matching. Brock is the key here as he follow the slot WR upfield. If it was regular cover3, Brock would not leave his curl/flat zone. If it was cover1, then I'm not sure what Reid and Brooks assignments are.


Brock has turned his back to the QB and will run with the slot WR upfield. This tells me Brock is matching the slot WR. Teddy targets the slot WR (orange).


Overthrown incomplete.


After forcing the FG, the 49ers would drive for Hyde's second TD to lead comfortably.
Thank you very much for all the game analysis. Love watching plays broken down, shows how intricate the game can be.
Originally posted by thl408:
Of all the running plays, I counted 5 power blocking runs. The rest were zone blocking. Of the power blocking runs for Hyde, they went for +1, -4, +9, +5. Hayne had a power blocking run that went for +9.

3Q 1st & 10
Counter Trap - Trap play on the weakside DE.
The blue DE will be trap blocked by Devey (yellow). Celek (orange) will lead through.


Staley leaves the DE (blue) to move to the second level. VD fakes the block on the DE and will move to the second level. By faking the block, it stalls the DE for Devey to pull across the formation.


Devey applies the trap block.


Hayne hits the hole.


+9 yards.

WOW. Pears false steps, locates his hands outsid the breastplate, and still manages to seal off the backside. It's hard to overstate the effect of length and fast feet at tackle.
This would be a very different game, if they allowed holding or gripping, instead of penalising it?

Very different. Probably more high scores

Any background on why they banned 'holding'?
[ Edited by shanky on Sep 19, 2015 at 7:15 AM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
Here's an odd coverage.

2Q 1st & 10
First, let's get the confusion induced by disguising the 4th rusher out of the way. It's the cool part about the play, but not the interesting part to me.
Brooks will drop into coverage while Dial engages two blockers. Bow will come as the 4th rusher and be unblocked.


Bow applies quick pressure.


To the all22. At first, I was just looking at what the 49ers were doing and it looked like a warped zone coverage. It's definitely zone. But after considering how MIN lines up, I think I kind of understand what's going on. Field side is the side that has more area. Boundary side has less area. This is determined by which hash mark the ball is placed on. Notice both WRs are to the field side. On the boundary side is an inline TE, and another TE lined up in the backfield.


The interesting players here are the two safeties, Brock (26), and Lynch (59). At the snap, Lynch gives a slight jam and let's the slot WR go by. Brock will turn and run with the #1 WR. Reid and Bethea start to roll towards the field side.


Brock turns and runs with the #1 while Lynch stays in his zone to pick up the RB coming out of the backfield (blue line). The slot WR (orange) is uncovered.


The ball is swung out to the TE in the backfield, but let's take it a frame further just to see the coverage play out a bit more.
Notice how close Reid is to the sideline. That's too wide for a regular cover2 safety. It's as if he's playing a deep 1/3. Bethea is playing centerfield as if it's a middle 1/3. If this is the case, then Acker (20) is the other deep 1/3 and he's just tightening his zone since there isn't a deep threat to his side.
What I think is that this is cover2 zone, but the 49ers aggesively roll coverage towards the field side since that's where the two WRs are.


? Why is Brock running up the field if he's in zone coverage? For sure this is zone. What zone is Brock playing? Is this a cover2 or cover 3 shell?
Caught for +3 yards.

I saw this play too, what it is, is a variation on a cover-3 "cloud". The cover-3 "cloud" is where you keep either the multiple receiver side, or field side-depending on how they call it, corner on an underneath coverage. It looks like, instead of flat responsibility, he's taking a curl responsibility. This would take away any "flood" concepts to that side.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,058
Originally posted by jonnydel:
I saw this play too, what it is, is a variation on a cover-3 "cloud". The cover-3 "cloud" is where you keep either the multiple receiver side, or field side-depending on how they call it, corner on an underneath coverage. It looks like, instead of flat responsibility, he's taking a curl responsibility. This would take away any "flood" concepts to that side.

So the 3 deep defenders are Reid, Bethea, Acker. Why is Brock leaving his underneath zone responsibility? The #2 (orange) is open because of this.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
I saw this play too, what it is, is a variation on a cover-3 "cloud". The cover-3 "cloud" is where you keep either the multiple receiver side, or field side-depending on how they call it, corner on an underneath coverage. It looks like, instead of flat responsibility, he's taking a curl responsibility. This would take away any "flood" concepts to that side.

So the 3 deep defenders are Reid, Bethea, Acker. Why is Brock leaving his underneath zone responsibility? The #2 (orange) is open because of this.

Could it be that Reid, Bethea and Brock are considered the deep and that's why Brock is kinda sprinting back. That's leaves Acker as one of the underneath cover guys?
Originally posted by Red1:
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Yeah...I am a life long fan and when these threads popped up it really enhanced some of the detail for me in a way you just don't get watching it live. I am huge fan of the work guys do in here. Has anyone extended a invite to our Aussie friends?...a lot of American rules football questions in the Hayne threads...this stuff is like an infusion of direct knowledge of the intricacies of the game.

I was going to make my fellow Aussies aware but our friendly Mod English has linked a few threads including this one in The Hayne Plane thread.

So would most people say the OL is more technical than the DL or both have there moments. Obviously the D's instructions are to get to the QB and/or cover your man. I always thought the OL was just blocking their man to allow the QB or RB to find the space. It seems that it is well beyond that with certain plays deliberately moving in a certain direction Is this correct or am just like that new guy rambling about nothing.

Here's my contribution for any of the new lads.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football_positions
Well, what's also helpful to know is that, in American football, we use a term a lot, "technique". It's meant to refer to how a player positions their body to perform their assigned duty.

For example: If a defender is covering a receiver, and he keeps himself on a side of the receiver that is towards the middle of the field, we'll call that, "inside technique". Again, if he's towards the sidelines side of the receiver, it's "outside technique". Defenders will play different techniques depending on if it's man coverage or zone, and where they're help is(the sideline can also be used as help). So, if we're asking which position requires more, "technique", I'd say the they're about even.

However, if we're talking technical in the terms of volume of information needed to be known to identify and execute an assignment, then it's most definitely the OL -especially in a power-man blocking scheme.

In a power-man blocking scheme, the blocking assignments can change dramatically, depending on the formation of the defense. There are many times, late shifts by the defense will also force these blocking schemes to change assignments at the very last second - OL have to be very smart guys. There's an old saying: "the defensive lineman is the guy who can eat the whole fridge. The offensive lineman is the guy who can take the fridge apart and tell you what every part does and put it back together."

For example(hoping not to get too technical to cause a fly-by): In a "93 blast" which is a run between the LG and LT - there are many different blocking assignments the O-line can have. The center, depending on how the defense is aligned, may combo on a DT, may help on a DT, then move to the 2nd level on a LB, may not help at all and go straight to the 2nd level, may "scoop" block a DT with help from the LG, may have a DT all alone. That's one position with multiple responsibilities from one play, all depending on the defensive front and alignment. Here's an example from one of Mike Holmgren's playbooks:



You'll also hear on broadcasts, "53(or whatever number)'s the Mike". This is super important a lot of times, because it's identifying the alignment for the offensive line. You see the "M" in the diagrams, the QB is identifying who a responsibility is and all the other players are often based off of where the "mike" is.

It also makes a big difference in pass blocking asignments:

Here's an excerpt from one of Gruden's playbooks:


Here, the identification of the "mike" is absolutely crucial. It's a very similar defensive front, 5 on the LOS with a LB pressed up on the LOS. One is a 4-3 "under" and the other is a "4-3" over. But, you can see how, if the defense blitzes out of the "4-3 over" front(the one on the left) and the QB calls out the "mike" as a 4-3 "under"(the one on the right) the responsibilities will be flipped and the LG is going to block a DT instead of being responsible for a blitzing LB. So, you'd more than likely have a free blitzer coming at the QB.
Share 49ersWebzone