Week 2 Pittsburg Steelers coaches film analysis

Originally posted by iLL49er:
there really is a lot of morons on this list now ripping fangio ahhahaha

FANGIO WOULDVE STAYED HERE if they hired adam gase...we'd have adam gase/fangio and tomsula doing what he does best..coaching fangio's scheme on gameday to the players on the sideline

there really are a lot of stupid people on this board if they want to down play vic fangio...he was amazing and the players knew it

How did Fangio do before coming to the loaded defense the niners fielded before? Mangini didn't call a very good game on Sunday but he had an excellent gameplan vs the Vikings. Fangio wouldn't have done much better vs the Steelers. We all know he would've rushed 4 and played off coverage...and still gotten burned because the front 4 wouldnt be able to get to Ben and he'd still keep on dropping bombs. Maybe we wouldn't give up as many big plays but he'd just pick us apart with intermediate stuff. Stop living in the past.

Originally posted by socalniner:
Poor safety help

It's all on Brock/Brooks because Brock knew he wasn't getting safety help.

For all of the chicken little types out there. Greg Cosell did a pretty interesting analysis of the Pittsburgh game for one of the local radio shows. Worth listening to for a different perspective on how the team played. Stressed that he thought the O-line and pass rush were definite concerns but felt the team did some other things well.
http://www.49ers.com/video/audio/NFL-Expert-Greg-Cosell-Analyzes-49ers-Cardinals/2d037898-2479-40fb-9989-ab5bf16f5087

Enough poopoo... Let's look at something pretty. I know it's not in chronilogical order - sorry Thl Just had to breakdown something nicer :)...


This is one of those plays where we're reminded of why CK can be special. We're going to take a page from the Steelers here. Defeat a cover 6 with a big play.

Pitt comes out in a cover 6, with the cover 4 on the wide side of the field and the cover 2 on the short side(look familiar?? See...Mangini's not the only one who does it...) We're going to run a "go" route with a "skinny post" on the quarters side and "corner" route on the short side. I've also highlighted the potential windows of the cover 6(4+2) in blue.


T. Smith does a great job of route running on this play. He makes sure to take an inside release on the zone defender. We also run PA to hold the LB's and keep an extra TE in to block.


The max protect helps CK get a clean pocket and the cover 2 side safety has to rotate over on Davis' Corner route. T. Smith then does a great job of straightening out his route so that the quarters side safety has to square back out a little bit more.


you see the 2 side safety moving over, opening up a hole for CK to hit T.Smith on his skinny post.


CK fires the ball in to T.Smith This is a special kind of arm talent here. He puts this ball on an absolute line, 27 yards downfield with zero arch on it. BTW, against a cover 2 side, you have to put the ball on a rail. It's not like the throw Big Ben made earlier, that was coming from the 2 side to the quarter side.


T. Smith catches it in stride and the safety misses the tackle and...he could.....go....all...the...WAY....TOUCHDOWN!!!

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SoCold:
Notice how Bowman is worthless on that play just sitting there in the middle of the field with no one around him. If he's blitzing and gets through the line that's a game changer.

that's also the benefit of hindsight and knowing that Pitt was only coming with 1 underneath route. On 3rd and 2, you're expecting an underneath concept, not 2 deep and one intermediate. If Bowman blitzes, the short middle of the field would've been WIDE open and a free first down. I don't have a problem with the call, I would've done the exact same thing on 3rd and 2, play with 2 deep, 5 underneath.

yeah, it's also the chess game of football

did Ben tell Miller to stay and block seeing the pressure from the right or was it always max protect?

Originally posted by sking20854:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by sking20854:
Hey jonny or thl, did you notice a big difference in the first half and second half with the Steelers defense?

I have not gotten to the 2nd half. But I'll be sure to check it out. I am assuming this is whether to see if Kap's 2nd half success in the passing game was aided by PIT easing off the gas pedal?

Yes. There is a lot of debate about how to put his stats in the second half into context and while I understand the idea of "garbage time" it doesn't jive with the information that he was pressured on a higher percentage of passes and overall more in the second half. So I just wanted to know what you guys saw, were they laying off in the secondary and pushing more on the offensive line to get to Kap.

I got to watching the second half and I can say that PIT went with a lot less cover1 in the second half. They almost always were in a cover2 or cover 3 shell. So there was definitely a difference in the coverages they called. I saw one blitz in the 2nd half and it came on SF's opening drive. In the first half, PIT definitely blitzed more than once. The first half passing plays I cut up show this. They weren't in a loose zone that allowed a bunch of underneath stuff, they were just in a less aggressive cover shell (not cover 1). Kap being pressured on a a higher percentage of pass plays in the 2nd half had to do with the OLine sucking versus a 4 man rush, not with PIT blitzing.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by socalniner:
Poor safety help

It's all on Brock/Brooks because Brock knew he wasn't getting safety help.

Out of curiosity, how much would you say is poor CB play versus poor safety play? The defense looked outmatched and poorly schemed pretty much all day long. In your opinion what scheme would have been more suitable for our personnel this past weekend?

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I would've loved to see Ellington get the ball on this play, the inside defenders had turned to go with their man and blown coverage on Ellington, he'd have turned upfield without being touched for at least 5 more yards. The GIF cuts it off right before, but at the end of the play he even turns and does a little jump stomp kind of thing, cause he knew he was open.

you mean patton ? or do you mean you want to see the same play someday only with ellington running the drag ?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by iLL49er:
there really is a lot of morons on this list now ripping fangio ahhahaha

FANGIO WOULDVE STAYED HERE if they hired adam gase...we'd have adam gase/fangio and tomsula doing what he does best..coaching fangio's scheme on gameday to the players on the sideline

there really are a lot of stupid people on this board if they want to down play vic fangio...he was amazing and the players knew it

How did Fangio do before coming to the loaded defense the niners fielded before? Mangini didn't call a very good game on Sunday but he had an excellent gameplan vs the Vikings. Fangio wouldn't have done much better vs the Steelers. We all know he would've rushed 4 and played off coverage...and still gotten burned because the front 4 wouldnt be able to get to Ben and he'd still keep on dropping bombs. Maybe we wouldn't give up as many big plays but he'd just pick us apart with intermediate stuff. Stop living in the past.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/FangVi0.htm

His points allowed on defense as a defensive coordinator before coming to the stacked 49ers team:

95 CAR: 8th
96 CAR: 2nd
97 CAR: 13th
98 CAR: 27th
00 IND: 17th
01 IND: 15th
02 HOU: 20th
03 HOU: 27th
04 HOU: 15th
05 HOU: 32nd

In 2006 he left the Texans and was demoted to linebackers coach in BAL (that's what happens when you coordinate the worst defense in the league). Granted the quality of players in Houston during that time frame didn't exactly help his cause. Next time you call someone a "moron" maybe you should do a little research.

I think Fangio was a decent coordinator for the 49ers but he also didn't walk on water. With the current slate of players on this defense, his scheme would not be as successful to only rush 4 (and neither would anyone elses, comparatively speaking). I don't think we have a bottom 10 defense this year, but I also don't think it is top 10.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SoCold:
Notice how Bowman is worthless on that play just sitting there in the middle of the field with no one around him. If he's blitzing and gets through the line that's a game changer.

Thanks for pointing that out. jonnydel, I'm going to break this play down as how I saw it. Hope you don't mind because there are a couple talking points here, one of which is what SoCold mentioned - worthless defenders covering grass. This is why spot dropping zone is inferior to pattern matching. Here are the strengths to Pattern Matching as listed in the Coverages and Concepts thread:
Strengths:
- Tighter windows to throw into
- Defenders are less likely to cover grass as the coverage morphs to man coverage
- Ability to play split coverages to confuse the QB
- Can be incorporated into any cover shell (Cover 1/2/3/4)

I know I am debating with no one here and am just talking to myself, but for Mangini to stop pattern matching as a team concept is a travesty. It takes a lot of reps , film time, and learning to achieve this on a team wide scale. To stop doing it is a huge mistake imo. There are DCs that would kill to have a sound pattern match scheme in place. But they won't do it because they either can't teach it, or their players aren't smart enough. Reid and Bethea are smart enough and the 2014 film is proof. Bow and Wilhoite fully grasped the concepts.

agree with you 100%

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's another play where Martin went full on potato....

It's 3rd and 17 3rd QTR.


We're going to try and get VD deep on a deep "smash" concept. It's not too dissimilar to what Pitt ran on us on the previous play I showed. Mixed with a "levels" concept. We're trying to get VD over the corner on the short side of the field.


The underneath defender locks on to Davis and the corner onto T. Smith. I've highlighted the area we're trying to hit.


You see the corner jump T. Smith's route. With the safety having to play mid because of the coming underneath routes, we have the possibility to take a shot to Davis - might work, might not. But, I like the concept.


Pitt comes with a strong side blitz and pulls a stunt up the middle.


Martin and Boone take the 1 Tech and Devey take #95. I think Martin was supposed to stay middle and let Boone take the DT alone.


Because Martin helped on the DT and a wide rush by #95, you see a gaping hole open up for the end looping around. Staley is trying to push his man upfield, but CK doesn't have anywhere to step up.


CK is effed...the next event will be censored for those who are squeamish to seeing CK sacked...


After the play, Staley had just motioned at Martin, then both Boone and Devey point him out. Martin was obviously wrong about his protection on this play....when you have 3 members of the O-line pointing at you after a sack....yeah....
Full....on...Potato...

Is Martin retarded? Is he a slow learner? Guy is as articulate as hell in interviews, but on the field he's as dumb as a bag of rocks. It's gotta be the youth.

3rd down for the steelers after Bruce Miller's TD drop. Can you please explain to me wtf armstead is doing? Clear shot on Ben, doesn't take it. Instead stands there and does the shuffle/raise the roof dance. A gif would be nice.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I really don't understand the conclusions that are the complete OPPOSITE of what's been discussed. I really don't get it. I really believe some people choose to be argumentative and bitter without reasoning. They dominate first game defense and what did some say? It's just one game. They fly to a rested, prepared opponent on a short week against an elite QB and offense that has been tops in the league for 3 seasons and the resulting conclusion? I wish we had our old coaches back. LOL. Well I'll use the same logic. It was just one game. Making excuses for Fangio is a joke in Chicago - the Bears have been playing poorly, period - AT HOME. No excuse. And many here thought Gase was a better option than Fangio and both are aided by a 2-time super bowl appearing HC in Fox. The Bears should play better - point blank. Oh it does come down to talent does it now? I thought Baalke was a terrible GM who has failed?

Double double standard standard.

If you look at how the team went about trying to stop Pitts offense you can clearly see that our coaching staff had no idea what they were doing.

Those zone plays were never going to work. No way Bowman or Whilhoite can cover Darrius Heyward-Bey. When they ran more of a nickle set with Ward there was decent coverage. Couple times Miller the TE was Bens only option. They should have been doing that all game. In the first half the coaches simply did not put the players in the best positions to compete in that game.

This is absolutely not what's been discussed. Period. People here even went through the trouble of breaking down, frame-by-frame the poor technique used in press coverage (something the Seahawks do effectively). I mean seriously - on huge, big chunk plays or TD. You're talking about a COUPLE of plays and the analysis here is about the technique used as a whole on defense and the disguise coverages employed putting our safeties in a bad spot when the CBs aren't playing proper technique, ALONG WITH not generating a pass-rush with only 4 rushers. Dude what are you talking about? SoCold you're a rational dude and have been posting for a while. Your summary doesn't even come close to what has been said. Ben was calling audibles at the LOS with sub-packages to counter what the 49ers were doing and the center was reading the LBs. Coaches stop what? The only thing I understand as a difference between what's being done this year opposed to last season was pattern matching - which for unknown reasons have not yet been used. But christ, a little early to decisively say "they don't know what they're doing" no? I certainly didn't see you post that last week. Same coaching staff. Same team. There's this myth that we are going to dominate every team in every situation every game on a short week flying cross country playing a 2-time SB QB with protection and speed on the outside against a young but learning defense. Yet when you discuss Fangio just 3 posts above, you rationalize that it's totally ok to get blown out AT HOME two weeks in a row with a vet coaching staff, and a HC who's coached two super bowls.

Come on man......

Thank You.

Looks like major mental blunders all around.

Our Safeties appear to have had the worst game of their careers.

It almost seems like our OL has major issues because our Center doesn't know what he's doing. If the C doesn't know what he's doing, then any OL is in trouble.

One more thing I want to see if you guys can break down is Kap's footwork. He had a good game but his pocket presence and ability to use the pocket correctly needs work. It seems like he is keeping his feet too close to one another which leads to taking big steps when one moves rather then keeping them wider with a good base so that he can chop/slide his way in the pocket. I am not worried about his throwing at all because his arm is so strong that he can compensate for an incorrect base.

Originally posted by cjsmoove:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I really don't understand the conclusions that are the complete OPPOSITE of what's been discussed. I really don't get it. I really believe some people choose to be argumentative and bitter without reasoning. They dominate first game defense and what did some say? It's just one game. They fly to a rested, prepared opponent on a short week against an elite QB and offense that has been tops in the league for 3 seasons and the resulting conclusion? I wish we had our old coaches back. LOL. Well I'll use the same logic. It was just one game. Making excuses for Fangio is a joke in Chicago - the Bears have been playing poorly, period - AT HOME. No excuse. And many here thought Gase was a better option than Fangio and both are aided by a 2-time super bowl appearing HC in Fox. The Bears should play better - point blank. Oh it does come down to talent does it now? I thought Baalke was a terrible GM who has failed?

Double double standard standard.

If you look at how the team went about trying to stop Pitts offense you can clearly see that our coaching staff had no idea what they were doing.

Those zone plays were never going to work. No way Bowman or Whilhoite can cover Darrius Heyward-Bey. When they ran more of a nickle set with Ward there was decent coverage. Couple times Miller the TE was Bens only option. They should have been doing that all game. In the first half the coaches simply did not put the players in the best positions to compete in that game.

This is absolutely not what's been discussed. Period. People here even went through the trouble of breaking down, frame-by-frame the poor technique used in press coverage (something the Seahawks do effectively). I mean seriously - on huge, big chunk plays or TD. You're talking about a COUPLE of plays and the analysis here is about the technique used as a whole on defense and the disguise coverages employed putting our safeties in a bad spot when the CBs aren't playing proper technique, ALONG WITH not generating a pass-rush with only 4 rushers. Dude what are you talking about? SoCold you're a rational dude and have been posting for a while. Your summary doesn't even come close to what has been said. Ben was calling audibles at the LOS with sub-packages to counter what the 49ers were doing and the center was reading the LBs. Coaches stop what? The only thing I understand as a difference between what's being done this year opposed to last season was pattern matching - which for unknown reasons have not yet been used. But christ, a little early to decisively say "they don't know what they're doing" no? I certainly didn't see you post that last week. Same coaching staff. Same team. There's this myth that we are going to dominate every team in every situation every game on a short week flying cross country playing a 2-time SB QB with protection and speed on the outside against a young but learning defense. Yet when you discuss Fangio just 3 posts above, you rationalize that it's totally ok to get blown out AT HOME two weeks in a row with a vet coaching staff, and a HC who's coached two super bowls.

Come on man......

Thank You.

?

Jonny outlines exactly what I'm talking about in the last 2 paragraphs in the fist post of this thread. Maybe you guys should actually read the post. Then comment on what I shouldn't be allowed to talk about in a thread?