Week 2 Pittsburg Steelers coaches film analysis

Originally posted by Luckycharms:

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's the other dropped pass by Boldin. I wanted to highlight this play for the coverage read that Kap makes.

2Q 2nd & 10
This play will look familiar if you saw the MIN film thread. All game long versus MIN the 49ers hit this play on the intermediate route (red).

High-low three lever flood. Yellow would push the deep zone sideline defender downfield for orange and red to vertically stretch the underneath zone defender.
Versus cover 2 zone (2 deep, 4 underneath).


PIT snuffs this play out and will take away the intermediate route as well as the short route. The CB jamming Boldin will take defeat the orange (intermediate) route. The defender engaged with Celek will defeat the red (short) route. Kap's progression is high to low. Also, Kap is reading how the CB jamming Boldin is positioned. That CB is facing the play, about to let BOldin go by. This suggests that he is an underneath zone defender and will not follow Boldin up the sideline. Kap reads this and will target Boldin in the 'honey hole' - the area behind the CB and in front of the cover2 safety.


Notice how PIT takes away the intermediate and short route. Something MIN never did the 7(?) times the 49ers ran this same concept. Good read and throw. Dropped ball.

The lolb runs right past pears for a free run at Kap. Hyde does a decent job of chipping him a little and slowing him up just enough for Kap to get a pass off. Was this a mistake on the OL to not pick up a basic 4 man rush? Why would we leave a our RB to pick up a lb if it's a 4 man rush? Thl or Johnny is this a mistake or did the OL slide to the left to sell the play action? Just curious?

Also I think Kap would of put less air under the ball if he didn't have to get rid of it so quick and lob it over the free rushing defender. It also looks like he couldn't step into the throw which is why Boldin kind of had to wait for the ball to get there and just couldn't catch it in stride for what would of been a TD

Pears is supposed to allow that LOLB to go by. That LOLB is Hyde's assignment off the play fake. Very similar to this play vs MIN. The RB (Hayne) performs the playaction then is responsible for the OLB that was invited into the backfield due to the playaction. Same three level High-Low


Regarding Kap underthrowing Boldin, he didn't. That's why I really like this play and the throw Kap made. I referred to the 'honey hole' in a cover2 zone coverage - the area behind the CB (that let Boldin go by), and in front of the safety on that side of the field. Kap's throw can't hit Boldin in full stride down the sideline. The further Kap leads Boldin down the sideline, the closer it gets to that cover2 safety. The honey hole is marked in yellow circles along the sidelines (not the yellow between the 2 safeties). Someone referred to this earlier in this thread.

Originally posted by CullyInTheHouse:
Cossell said I still don't think Kap was seeing the field well, but I'm not sure how accurate that statement was. thl or Jonny, what do you guys think of that comment? To me it seemed like he made the right read majority of the time.

I thought he saw the field very well. Talking about just the 1st half, the 49ers really tried to get the ground game going so Kap didn't have that many throws. Factor in the sacks and the two horrible screen plays, which result in negative passing yards) and I think Kap had 30 yards passing in the first half which looks really bad. But so far this season I think he's made one throw into double coverage (VD in MIN), and has taken care of the ball. No INTs, no 'near INTs'. Quick to take what the defense is giving. I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing from him so far.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by CullyInTheHouse:

Cossell said I still don't think Kap was seeing the field well, but I'm not sure how accurate that statement was. thl or Jonny, what do you guys think of that comment? To me it seemed like he made the right read majority of the time.

I thought he saw the field very well. Talking about just the 1st half, the 49ers really tried to get the ground game going so Kap didn't have that many throws. Factor in the sacks and the two horrible screen plays, which result in negative passing yards) and I think Kap had 30 yards passing in the first half which looks really bad. But so far this season I think he's made one throw into double coverage (VD in MIN), and has taken care of the ball. No INTs, no 'near INTs'. Quick to take what the defense is giving. I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing from him so far.

I just think Cossell needs to chill a bit. He makes a lot of assumption and is a driving force behind a lot of narratives about kap. We can all surmise progressions based on how stuff was done in the past or how concepts usually work. But truthfully, we really don't know (Cossell included) what the coaches have installed and how they present different concepts.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's an example of how both Martin and our TE's got beat in the run game. 7:30 2nd QTR


We're in a 3 TE set with Boldin set wide and VD on the weakside of the formation.


We're going to run our stretch tackle play - it's what was our staple against the Vikings.


Boone gives a slight nudge on the 0 tech and moves the 2nd level. Staley helps on the DE, then moves to the 2nd level while #89(McD??) picks up the DE.


Martin gets beat across his face and pushed upfield. McD also gets pushed back - they both have to play with better leverage. Notice how the DT was able to get his hands under Martin's pads and his head is lower than Martin's. He's playing with better leverage.


I've gone to the All-22 to show how far back both Martin and McD have been pushed. The ball was on the 22 yrd line and Martin has been pushed over a yard a half back. On a running play, he should be pushing his guy a yard and a half off the ball. You can also see McD beat from leverage too. They both have to get lower on their blocks.


The forceful movement backwards from the blockers causes Hyde to hesitate for just a step - it's what blows the play up, it gives the defense enough time to get to the hole. Celek's block then gets defeated by Shazier(to his credit, Shazier really showed up in this game, dude's a ball player). If Martin and McD don't get pushed back, Hyde never hesitates and takes this ball straight to the hole and probably gains, at minimum, 5 yards. Or, if Celek could've held his block a little longer, we make a good gain. Either way, both Martin and our TE's poorly execute this play. It's a -1 yard run.

Two things:

First - this is a fine example AGAIN of poor technique/execution. It's not that running won't work against the Steelers, the 49ers aren't executing. As johnny points out here clearly, blocking with leverage on a running play SHOULD be advantage blockers, not advantage Steelers. Three players playing with poor technique - Martin, McDonald and then Celek. If you're in 13 personnel, there's no way your center and TWO TEs should result in the runner being tackled for a loss. At the very least it should be 2 yard gain minimum, and as johnny said, or at least 5 or more. It's not that this was a "recycled" game plan, but the coaches must preach maintaining intensity against any opponent and maybe it has something to do with being tired and just sluggish. I'm sure this will show up on film this week and something that needs to be corrected in practice. Football 101 - play with leverage in run-blocking. You don't need first round talent everywhere to execute the basics.


Second

Originally posted by SoCold:?Jonny outlines exactly what I'm talking about in the last 2 paragraphs in the fist post of this thread. Maybe you guys should actually read the post. Then comment on what I shouldn't be allowed to talk about in a thread?

Actually it was thl408 who outlined your observation about Bowman covering open grass which is a problem within the spot dropping zone defensive philosophy. Now does this mean, as you've said previously that "the coaches don't have a clue to what they're doing"? We'll see. Hopefully Mangini adjusts and re-incorporates pattern matching. We will see. My point was that it's pretty early to decisively say Mangini "doesn't know what he's doing". That may be the case, but I think the sample size is a little too small to make that assumption.

-----------------

On another note, and a general question to all, (prob more specifically to thl408 and johnnydel), does this spot dropping zone philosophy absolutely need a pass rush to be effective? And did you see the team playing more pattern matching during preseason than in this game for example....

Yeah like I told someone else I guess that comes off as harsh saying they have no idea, I mean they have some idea.

One thing I was really not happy with from Mangini, was how he played a cover 2 zone too much. One of the throws to beat a cover 2 zone is a 'rail' shot deep down the sideline. There will be a small hole between the corner and the safety about 15-20 yards down the field, Ben took those a couple times.Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/183255-week-pittsburg-steelers-coaches-film-analysis/#JAiofzjRBMzUVDLu.99

this is what I was talking about from Jonny's first post of this thread. The zone scheme helped PITT take our best player out of a lot of plays. Not sure why they kept doing it in the 2nd half when I clearly didn't work in the first half being down like 20+ points.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
The better rivals podcast talks about when we ran 2 run/pass options plays. Can we take a look at those? I don't remember us doing a run pass option in the Harbaugh era. One was a quick pass to Vernon and one was a bunch formation pass to Boldin for about 9 yards. I hope we continue to use these. Especially if we are in hurry up mode

Yeah I saw that. It was a packaged play concept. I'll post the GIFs later.

we actually ran quite a bit of those "package" plays. During our breakdowns last year, there were several examples of these types of plays. We were prob 70/30 run/pass in those plays. It was all based off the defensive look and CK's decision to throw it or run it. We prob ran 3-4 per game last year.

Originally posted by thl408:
. No INTs, no 'near INTs'.

This. He hasn't been throwing risky passes. He hasn't tried to force anything where nothing was to be found, that's a huge difference in his game that I'm seeing.

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
The better rivals podcast talks about when we ran 2 run/pass options plays. Can we take a look at those? I don't remember us doing a run pass option in the Harbaugh era. One was a quick pass to Vernon and one was a bunch formation pass to Boldin for about 9 yards. I hope we continue to use these. Especially if we are in hurry up mode

Packaged Plays is a concept detailed in the 'Coverages & Concepts' thread so I won't go into it here.

3Q 2nd & 4
Four possible outcomes from this play: QB keeper, RB inside zone, WR screen, backside slant.
The 3WRs split wide is in a 3v3 situation. There are 6 box defenders. It's 1v1 on the backside.


Kap takes the snap and looks backside to the slant. The Will LB (blue) flashes out and blocks the passing lane, forcing Kap to hold onto the ball.


Boone - ineligible blocker downfield. Refs missed it.


Completed to VD. +5 yards.

_____________________

Two plays later....
3Q 2nd & 10
Same formation. Notice how PIT is aligned differently this time. Try to guess which option Kap should choose.


Kap takes the snap and throws the WR screen because of the 3WRs vs 2DBs matchup.


+6 yards


High percentage plays with the outcome dictated by the defense's alignment.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's another play where Martin went full on potato....

It's 3rd and 17 3rd QTR.


We're going to try and get VD deep on a deep "smash" concept. It's not too dissimilar to what Pitt ran on us on the previous play I showed. Mixed with a "levels" concept. We're trying to get VD over the corner on the short side of the field.


The underneath defender locks on to Davis and the corner onto T. Smith. I've highlighted the area we're trying to hit.


You see the corner jump T. Smith's route. With the safety having to play mid because of the coming underneath routes, we have the possibility to take a shot to Davis - might work, might not. But, I like the concept.


Pitt comes with a strong side blitz and pulls a stunt up the middle.


Martin and Boone take the 1 Tech and Devey take #95. I think Martin was supposed to stay middle and let Boone take the DT alone.


Because Martin helped on the DT and a wide rush by #95, you see a gaping hole open up for the end looping around. Staley is trying to push his man upfield, but CK doesn't have anywhere to step up.


CK is effed...the next event will be censored for those who are squeamish to seeing CK sacked...


After the play, Staley had just motioned at Martin, then both Boone and Devey point him out. Martin was obviously wrong about his protection on this play....when you have 3 members of the O-line pointing at you after a sack....yeah....
Full....on...Potato...

jonnydel, Martin screwed up the snap count on this play. It was supposed to be "on two" and Martin snapped it "on one". I cut this play up in the Good,Bad,Ugly thread.
Reposting:
Notice Staley, Boone, and Boldin still in their pre-snap stance. Kap already has the ball.


Very slow get off from Staley.


Staley says it's on 2.


Boone says it's on 2. Pears is pointing at Martin. You showed this in your pics.


Martin with the derp. This isn't some inexperienced mistake. Players have done snapcount since peewee football. This is lack of focus.

Ugh kilgore nedes to get healthy. Complain about health, complain about his chemistry with the team. But atleast he isnt doing this s**t.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
For what it's worth, Cosell on KNBR saying conceptually our defense was fine. Tape was not as bad as the score. Only play we really got beat conceptually was TD to DHB, when he got a clean release running right past Bethea in coverage. Doesn't think our defense is bad, just got beat by a great offense.

That's what I was trying to get across in my breakdowns as well. In theory, the coverage was right for the plays, we just didn't execute it well. Whether that be on the players themselves or on the coaches putting them in positions, or the players putting themselves in those positions - a lot of those plays came off no-huddle, so it's also hard to say that Mangini was calling in the disguises from the sideline when it's a no-huddle situation.

I'm actually hoping that the Pitt game is attributable to jet lag, the early start and exhaustion from such a short turn around. T
I thought during the game that our players did not really look dialled in. From the analysis a lot of the problems seem to be execution and mental mistakes combined with great play from the Steelers, the kind of issues we saw are the kind that I think you see from tired players struggling to focus.

Here's hoping to a much improved and sharper performance in Arizona.

Originally posted by Buchy:
I'm actually hoping that the Pitt game is attributable to jet lag, the early start and exhaustion from such a short turn around. T
I thought during the game that our players did not really look dialled in. From the analysis a lot of the problems seem to be execution and mental mistakes combined with great play from the Steelers, the kind of issues we saw are the kind that I think you see from tired players struggling to focus.

Here's hoping to a much improved and sharper performance in Arizona.

Nothing a few boxes of adderall won't fix...right?

Some wanted to see the 2-point conversion to Torrey

Not much to breakdown. Due to formation, Kap knows he has 1v1 on the backside.


CB turns his back so Kap knows the fade is available if he can properly place the throw. The CB (#41) Blake is listed at 5'9". Torrey is 6'0".

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
The better rivals podcast talks about when we ran 2 run/pass options plays. Can we take a look at those? I don't remember us doing a run pass option in the Harbaugh era. One was a quick pass to Vernon and one was a bunch formation pass to Boldin for about 9 yards. I hope we continue to use these. Especially if we are in hurry up mode

Packaged Plays is a concept detailed in the 'Coverages & Concepts' thread so I won't go into it here.

3Q 2nd & 4
Four possible outcomes from this play: QB keeper, RB inside zone, WR screen, backside slant.
The 3WRs split wide is in a 3v3 situation. There are 6 box defenders. It's 1v1 on the backside.



+6 yards


High percentage plays with the outcome dictated by the defense's alignment.

I think we will see the run from this same formation vs ARI. Or I hope we do. That type of formation usually has the defense alerted to a screen or a pass.

Would be awesome if Kap hands it off the first time from that formation and then keeps it himself for a run the second time. Can use this once each quarter hitting all the options if available.


I'm not sure that Boldin is the best option for the screen here. Would rather want White or one of our quicks. Hayne would probably be the quickest to catch it and turn upfield along with punishing defenders.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
finally have some time to cover the play where Wilhoite was the only guy deep down the field.


Here, it's 3rd down again - we don't bring a safety too far down, only thing is that Bethea comes down a little bit, not a lot. We also press the corners. Here's where the press is used more as a disguise. When you bring these guys down, you can disguise variations of cover 2 - if your corners are real good, you can also use it to disguise a cover 3 or man too.

Out of this, we're going to run a tampa-2 zone. The key on this play is the breakdown of the rushing lanes. Pitt runs a deep "smash" concept.


You see the corners redirect their men and turn into zone. Wilhoite trails the deepest man in the middle of the field and Bethea widens out for the threat of the outside vertical threat. This is just how they're supposed to play this zone, so far.


Pitt, again, max protects. The key is, Lynch, desperately trying to get to the QB, takes an inside move on the line and gives up contain. So, Big Ben is flushed out to his right. Reid has to widen out because of the threat from Brown. So far, they have decent coverage, but, over time, it breaks down.


As Ben rolls out right, the 2 underneath zone defenders come up, this puts Bethea in a tough spot. He comes up to cover the mid-level route - which is in position for the 1st down, it was 3rd and 2, so you expect the QB to be looking at the first down throw. I can't blame him for never checking his backside, with a receiver already open and a QB rolling out your direction, you generally don't take your eyes off that to look behind you. So, we now have a receiver breaking away from a MLB.


As Bethea is clued in on the underneath route, the Sail route opens up.


They then sling it downfield.



The major breakdown was, again, in the pass rush. Ben had around 5-6 seconds to throw this ball. You can't expect the defense to cover for that long.

I had this play cut up as well, wanted to show how I saw it, and how it relates to pattern matching. I saw it the same way you did, with the only difference being that I think Weaton's route is really a divide route designed to split the two deep safeties. Weaton just happened to adjust it to a Sail route when he saw nobody in that deep 1/2 of the field (Bethea's side).

3rd & 2, which is very important to note.


Tampa2 begins to take form as WIlhoite runs up the middle of the field. Red and Orange is what will break this coverage.


Brock turns red over to Bethea so Brock can cover orange coming out of the backfield. Like jonnydel ,mentioned, this puts Bethea in a tough spot. Really, assignment wise, Bethea should not be coming up to cover red. But because it's 3rd & 2, most offenses will go for the first down conversion. This is where Ben escapes the pocket and extends the play. Brock feels the vertical stretch.


In a spot dropping zone coverage, all zones begin to stretch as the play is prolonged. If Bethea did not come up to cover red, red would have been open. On the other side of the field, it's 3v1 as Reid, Bowman, and Acker are covering the lone backside WR. 3 defenders covering 1 WR never happens when pattern matching. This is a waste of resources. It's the other side of the field that needs help.


Wilhoite feels hung out to dry, but Bethea and Brock were in a tough situation.


In 2013 and 2014, not once did the 49ers play Tampa2. This is a coverage that relies heavily on pressure with 4. That's how the SB winning Bucs did it with Sapp and Simeon Rice. I've seen Mangini's defense run this a few times this season so I assume it will be a regular part of the defense. If so, the 4 man pass rush has to step up.

In 2013 and 2014, not once did the 49ers play Tampa2. This is a coverage that relies heavily on pressure with 4. That's how the SB winning Bucs did it with Sapp and Simeon Rice. I've seen Mangini's defense run this a few times this season so I assume it will be a regular part of the defense. If so, the 4 man pass rush has to step up.

Yeah I've noticed Mangini likes to use a Tampa 2 a lot in our nickle and dime packages. I'm curious your thoughts on Tampa 2. You don't see it a whole lot any more since offenses have evolved and figured it out, along with all these quick athletic tight ends that can run down the seam and still beat the LB deep. I have never really been a fan, but in theory it's a bend don't break style defense and should take away the big play, but it didn't work this game.
Also especially with our struggles when rushing 4, the Tampa 2 wouldn't seem to be a good call when looking to get pressure on the qb

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
For me, I'm not seeing MORE WCO, just different. Last year, nearly all of our plays were WCO concepts(I know, I know, the WCO incorporates just about every concept) but I'm meaning, I saw us use a lot of stuff I had seen in numerous WCO playbooks from Walsh-Holmgren-Shanahan-Gruden.

I agree with this..,,I think in my original answer I failed to see the word MORE. I was responding to seeing a lot of WCO stuff. Seems like we are doing some different WCO from the past couple of years...but now that vast majority is out of gun or pistol sets. For example, I'm pretty sure Miller caught a pass on either a Texas/HB angle route out of a strong pistol form. I'm not entirely sure if is was the Texas concept with the accompanying TE seam route or not. It was though an angle route.

3Q 2nd & 8
Texas vs Cover3
VD probably has an option route. As long as he goes vertical beyond a certain depth.


VD pushes the middle zone defenders back. Miller works the open area.


+7 yards