There are 218 users in the forums
Originally posted by thl408:
Some wanted to see the 2-point conversion to Torrey
Not much to breakdown. Due to formation, Kap knows he has 1v1 on the backside.
CB turns his back so Kap knows the fade is available if he can properly place the throw. The CB (#41) Blake is listed at 5'9". Torrey is 6'0".
Originally posted by thl408:3Q 2nd & 8
Texas vs Cover3
VD probably has an option route. As long as he goes vertical beyond a certain depth.
VD pushes the middle zone defenders back. Miller works the open area.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by jonnydel:I had this play cut up as well, wanted to show how I saw it, and how it relates to pattern matching. I saw it the same way you did, with the only difference being that I think Weaton's route is really a divide route designed to split the two deep safeties. Weaton just happened to adjust it to a Sail route when he saw nobody in that deep 1/2 of the field (Bethea's side).
finally have some time to cover the play where Wilhoite was the only guy deep down the field.
Here, it's 3rd down again - we don't bring a safety too far down, only thing is that Bethea comes down a little bit, not a lot. We also press the corners. Here's where the press is used more as a disguise. When you bring these guys down, you can disguise variations of cover 2 - if your corners are real good, you can also use it to disguise a cover 3 or man too.
Out of this, we're going to run a tampa-2 zone. The key on this play is the breakdown of the rushing lanes. Pitt runs a deep "smash" concept.
You see the corners redirect their men and turn into zone. Wilhoite trails the deepest man in the middle of the field and Bethea widens out for the threat of the outside vertical threat. This is just how they're supposed to play this zone, so far.
Pitt, again, max protects. The key is, Lynch, desperately trying to get to the QB, takes an inside move on the line and gives up contain. So, Big Ben is flushed out to his right. Reid has to widen out because of the threat from Brown. So far, they have decent coverage, but, over time, it breaks down.
As Ben rolls out right, the 2 underneath zone defenders come up, this puts Bethea in a tough spot. He comes up to cover the mid-level route - which is in position for the 1st down, it was 3rd and 2, so you expect the QB to be looking at the first down throw. I can't blame him for never checking his backside, with a receiver already open and a QB rolling out your direction, you generally don't take your eyes off that to look behind you. So, we now have a receiver breaking away from a MLB.
As Bethea is clued in on the underneath route, the Sail route opens up.
They then sling it downfield.
3rd & 2, which is very important to note.
Tampa2 begins to take form as WIlhoite runs up the middle of the field. Red and Orange is what will break this coverage.
Brock turns red over to Bethea so Brock can cover orange coming out of the backfield. Like jonnydel ,mentioned, this puts Bethea in a tough spot. Really, assignment wise, Bethea should not be coming up to cover red. But because it's 3rd & 2, most offenses will go for the first down conversion. This is where Ben escapes the pocket and extends the play. Brock feels the vertical stretch.
In a spot dropping zone coverage, all zones begin to stretch as the play is prolonged. If Bethea did not come up to cover red, red would have been open. On the other side of the field, it's 3v1 as Reid, Bowman, and Acker are covering the lone backside WR. 3 defenders covering 1 WR never happens when pattern matching. This is a waste of resources. It's the other side of the field that needs help.
Wilhoite feels hung out to dry, but Bethea and Brock were in a tough situation.
In 2013 and 2014, not once did the 49ers play Tampa2. This is a coverage that relies heavily on pressure with 4. That's how the SB winning Bucs did it with Sapp and Simeon Rice. I've seen Mangini's defense run this a few times this season so I assume it will be a regular part of the defense. If so, the 4 man pass rush has to step up.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Why did brock come down to cover the flats when there was a LB on him also? Should he have sgtayed with the WR so Bethea could stay at safety?
Originally posted by NinerGM:The 49ers would have to be practicing it to switch back to it. I don't think Mangini can just say, "remember what you guys did in 2014? We have 4 days to refresh our memory and go back to it". Who knows whether they've been drilling it in practice. Of the new key contributors to the defense, it's Acker and Tartt that I have yet to see in a pattern match scheme. ARI will use stacked/bunched WRs. If the 49ers don't pattern match, they will be subjected to pick plays if they are in man coverage. If ARI max protects, it's just more reason to PM. If ARI just sends out 3 routes, a PM scheme could get each WR double teamed, instead of having some defenders cover grass. Also, if they don't PM, then flood concepts start to become very effective for the offense.
Thanks for the education here .... so if we continue to play Tampa 2, Mangini is going to need to generate more pressure. IMHO, I don't think we have the horses to have consistent pressure with 4 down linemen, I just don't - especially against max protect. We will see this counter formation from AZ. There's no way Arians is going to ignore the Steeler tape and use the exact formations with technically a better/bigger receiver like Fitzgerald.
Is it possible to switch back to pattern matching in one week?
Originally posted by Luckycharms:I think it's good against teams that would like to attack the flats because the CBs are dedicated to just the flats area. Good point about TEs evolving. Like all static zone coverages, it gets beaten conceptually with certain route combinations. Spot dropping zone must have a good front 4 pass rush. Without it, it's bend, don't break, like you said. In that play where Wilhoite is defending Wheaton, if Bethea stays back, the first down is converted on a shorter pass as Brock has two defenders in his area. PIT doesn't get the huge play. but it's bend don't break. It was shown by jonnydel that because Lynch couldn't get a good run at Ben, Ben extended the play and that led to stretched zones.
Yeah I've noticed Mangini likes to use a Tampa 2 a lot in our nickle and dime packages. I'm curious your thoughts on Tampa 2. You don't see it a whole lot any more since offenses have evolved and figured it out, along with all these quick athletic tight ends that can run down the seam and still beat the LB deep. I have never really been a fan, but in theory it's a bend don't break style defense and should take away the big play, but it didn't work this game. Also especially with our struggles when rushing 4, the Tampa 2 wouldn't seem to be a good call when looking to get pressure on the qb
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Why did brock come down to cover the flats when there was a LB on him also? Should he have sgtayed with the WR so Bethea could stay at safety?
Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Why did brock come down to cover the flats when there was a LB on him also? Should he have sgtayed with the WR so Bethea could stay at safety?
Coverage broke down because Pitt max protected Big Ben which gave him all day to decide between the low-hanging fruit and the home run shot.
Originally posted by thl408:
Some wanted to see the 2-point conversion to Torrey
Not much to breakdown. Due to formation, Kap knows he has 1v1 on the backside.
CB turns his back so Kap knows the fade is available if he can properly place the throw. The CB (#41) Blake is listed at 5'9". Torrey is 6'0".
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Jeezus, what the heck is pears doing? Didn't block anyone... and vernons weak chip block on shazier?
Originally posted by jonnydel:Really like this keyframe here as VD pulls the boundary safety to earn Torrey the seam in the middle of the field.
Enough poopoo... Let's look at something pretty. I know it's not in chronilogical order - sorry Thl
This is one of those plays where we're reminded of why CK can be special. We're going to take a page from the Steelers here. Defeat a cover 6 with a big play.
Pitt comes out in a cover 6, with the cover 4 on the wide side of the field and the cover 2 on the short side(look familiar?? See...Mangini's not the only one who does it...) We're going to run a "go" route with a "skinny post" on the quarters side and "corner" route on the short side. I've also highlighted the potential windows of the cover 6(4+2) in blue.
.
.
T. Smith does a great job of route running on this play. He makes sure to take an inside release on the zone defender. We also run PA to hold the LB's and keep an extra TE in to block.
The max protect helps CK get a clean pocket and the cover 2 side safety has to rotate over on Davis' Corner route. T. Smith then does a great job of straightening out his route so that the quarters side safety has to square back out a little bit more.
you see the 2 side safety moving over, opening up a hole for CK to hit T.Smith on his skinny post.
CK fires the ball in to T.Smith This is a special kind of arm talent here. He puts this ball on an absolute line, 27 yards downfield with zero arch on it. BTW, against a cover 2 side, you have to put the ball on a rail. It's not like the throw Big Ben made earlier, that was coming from the 2 side to the quarter side.
T. Smith catches it in stride and the safety misses the tackle and...he could.....go....all...the...WAY....TOUCHDOWN!!!
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Jeezus, what the heck is pears doing? Didn't block anyone... and vernons weak chip block on shazier?
OMG! I don't know whether or not to laugh or throw up at Pears. We barely get off a quick fade pass! We are flaming the offensive linemen but it is obvious that the OL is bad due to not knowing what to do. If we can get them ready mentally, then this OL will be solid.
