Week 3 Arizona Cardinals coaches film analysis

^^^ perfect. Thanks thl

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Without a doubt it's for disguise. For sure. And I'm sure we certainly get that idea but this is pretty extreme. 40% of the time your two best pass rushers are in coverage? And not zone coverage like with Fangio...but man coverage on speedy slot WR's and studs like Fitzgerald. That's how you turn a strength into a mismatch for the opposition and an easy one to recognize for ANY QB right at the LOS.

This is from MB:

* Why doesn't Ahmad Brooks, the team's top pass rusher, have a sack yet? One reason is that he and fellow outside linebacker Aaron Lynch are being sent into coverage more than in previous seasons. Brooks even was assigned to cover Cardinals wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald -- he ranks 20th on the NFL's all-time receiving list -- on Sunday. The not-surprising result: Fitzgerald had an easy 14-yard catch and run and picked up a first down.

According to Pro Football Focus, the 49ers' starting outside linebackers have been in coverage on about 40 percent of pass plays this year. Last season it was closer to 15-20 percent.

More than that, they are being asked to play man-to-man coverage whereas in previous seasons they merely dropped into a zone. Brooks and Lynch both are in the 265-pound range. They are built for short, powerful bursts of energy up field not for trailing wideouts down field.

Over the last two games, there's been a sense that the 49ers' defense has been outsmarting itself. Perhaps the best plan against Rodgers is to simplify: Have Brooks and Lynch rush the passer and have the safeties in coverage to guard against the big plays that have gutted the 49ers the last two weeks.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article37194435.html#storylink=cpy

If we could only find that balance of some actual jam press, press, off coverages (pattern matching), using the OLB's the majority of the time to pass rush and do their usual SAM and WILL jobs while sprinkling in some Mangini disguises, this could be a top 5 defense again! What happened to the 4 safeties? Smart personnel matchups (like Reaser on the Browns?),

But...

I don't agree with Barrows' that the OLBs are in man coverage. They are in zone most of the time, easily. The 49ers this season have played more zone coverage than at any time in the past seasons under Fangio. All the plays I've cut up where large chunk gains occurred have been versus zone coverage except for the one where John Brown burned Brock.

Even the play where Wilhoite was "covering" Wheaton (PIT) downfield. That was zone coverage. It just looked like man coverage because Wilhoite was the only defender close to Wheaton. I"m not sure why Barrows said the OLBs are in man coverage, but he's incorrect.

Fangio did drop his OLB's in coverage some, but it was usually just Brooks. Brooks dropped in coverage something like 30%, but Aldon and Lynch were about 9% under Fangio which is smart since Aldon and lunch are the better pass rushers.

So far this season under Mangini, Brooks has dropped into coverage 47% on passing downs and Lynch 36%. The other alarming stat to me that I really HATE is the amount of times Mangini rushes 3 or less. Against Arizona he rushed 3 or less (1 times he rushed 2) 8 times! That's about 25-30% of the pass attempts! And most of the time we are in base coverage and its Dial, Williams, and Dorsey rushing and they are our worst pass rushing lineman. It's absolutely maddening! You can't let a savvy receiver like Fitz and a veteran qb like Palmer sit back for 6 seconds to find a spot in your zone cus your only rushing 3 and its 3 DL who specialize in stopping the run!

Originally posted by thl408:
btw, All those are examples of pattern matching. The play starts off looking like zone, but if you closed your eyes then looked at the last frame of each GIF, everyone looks like they are playing man coverage.

Thing of beauty watching that coverage unfold. Of all the issues we have now, the dumbing down of our pass coverage scheme might be the most depressing.

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
Fangio did drop his OLB's in coverage some, but it was usually just Brooks. Brooks dropped in coverage something like 30%, but Aldon and Lynch were about 9% under Fangio which is smart since Aldon and lunch are the better pass rushers.

So far this season under Mangini, Brooks has dropped into coverage 47% on passing downs and Lynch 36%. The other alarming stat to me that I really HATE is the amount of times Mangini rushes 3 or less. Against Arizona he rushed 3 or less (1 times he rushed 2) 8 times! That's about 25-30% of the pass attempts! And most of the time we are in base coverage and its Dial, Williams, and Dorsey rushing and they are our worst pass rushing lineman. It's absolutely maddening! You can't let a savvy receiver like Fitz and a veteran qb like Palmer sit back for 6 seconds to find a spot in your zone cus your only rushing 3 and its 3 DL who specialize in stopping the run!

Good points. I see this stuff happening and I can't help but think Mangini is sabotaging the team. I'm dead serious. How can someone be so ass-backwards in their thinking and make ALL the wrong moves to put players in the worst position possible. It's really amazing.

Originally posted by thl408:
That would be my guess. The OLBs are lined up across from the slot WR in press alignment, which can look as though they are about to play man, but it's only so they can bump the WR at the line of scrimmage. They aren't following the WR around the field in man coverage. Fangio would drop his LBs back into an underneath zone, but if any WR came into their zone, they would match the WR (in man coverage). So really, it's Fangio that had his LBs covering WRs in man coverage more than Mangini. The thing is, it was only if the WR was in the middle of the field, near the line of scrimmage that Fangio's LBs would man cover a WR - never downfield.

Here are examples of LBs covering WRs (Fangio's defense), but notice it's at a short distance. In these examples, the LB has matched the pattern of the WR. The WR comes into the area of the LB, then is picked up in man coverage.

The ILB matches one of the WRs running the mesh (gives him a shove in the back when the WR sits down)

----------------
Notice the LB match the Drag route.

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same play I posted earlier
Bow matches the Curl route.

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Borland matches the Drag route

look how good our defense looks because of pattern-match. look how it affects Rodgers. going to miss that..... we're going to get f**king shredded..

Originally posted by defenderDX:
look how good our defense looks because of pattern-match. look how it affects Rodgers. going to miss that..... we're going to get f**king shredded..

If big ben and Palmer lit us up, I can't even imaging what Rodges will do.

I'm hoping Mangini willl cook up somthing so exotic that Rogers will get flustered. Unlikely though. Even if he does come up wit the scheme, i don't think we have the DBs to run it right. Cobb might just go off on us.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
look how good our defense looks because of pattern-match. look how it affects Rodgers. going to miss that..... we're going to get f**king shredded..

If big ben and Palmer lit us up, I can't even imaging what Rodges will do.

I'm hoping Mangini willl cook up somthing so exotic that Rogers will get flustered. Unlikely though. Even if he does come up wit the scheme, i don't think we have the DBs to run it right. Cobb might just go off on us.

Brock has been exposed to it, Johnson, Ward, Beathea, Reid, Bowman, and Whilhoite. idk too much about Acker and the rest but our defensive players for the most part know it. so it's why im confused as to why we don't run it.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
look how good our defense looks because of pattern-match. look how it affects Rodgers. going to miss that..... we're going to get f**king shredded..

If big ben and Palmer lit us up, I can't even imaging what Rodges will do.

I'm hoping Mangini willl cook up somthing so exotic that Rogers will get flustered. Unlikely though. Even if he does come up wit the scheme, i don't think we have the DBs to run it right. Cobb might just go off on us.

Brock has been exposed to it, Johnson, Ward, Beathea, Reid, Bowman, and Whilhoite. idk too much about Acker and the rest but our defensive players for the most part know it. so it's why im confused as to why we don't run it.

True, but even Acker and Reaser were in on all of the film study last year...they sat in every defensive coaching meeting and film work...in short, every single player on defense KNOWS pattern matching well. This should have been a very easy transition with Mangini just dialing up some timely exotic blitz packages and perhaps, some more pre and post-snap coverage disguises. Just be a little less predictable and a little more aggressive. Perfect.

Instead, he went full backwards. And that is just as much on JT for allowing it as it is Mangini for even thinking a polar opposite defense would work with this talent.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
look how good our defense looks because of pattern-match. look how it affects Rodgers. going to miss that..... we're going to get f**king shredded..

If big ben and Palmer lit us up, I can't even imaging what Rodges will do.

I'm hoping Mangini willl cook up somthing so exotic that Rogers will get flustered. Unlikely though. Even if he does come up wit the scheme, i don't think we have the DBs to run it right. Cobb might just go off on us.

Brock has been exposed to it, Johnson, Ward, Beathea, Reid, Bowman, and Whilhoite. idk too much about Acker and the rest but our defensive players for the most part know it. so it's why im confused as to why we don't run it.

True, but even Acker and Reaser were in on all of the film study last year...they sat in every defensive coaching meeting and film work...in short, every single player on defense KNOWS pattern matching well. This should have been a very easy transition with Mangini just dialing up some timely exotic blitz packages and perhaps, some more pre and post-snap coverage disguises. Just be a little less predictable and a little more aggressive. Perfect.

Instead, he went full backwards. And that is just as much on JT for allowing it as it is Mangini for even thinking a polar opposite defense would work with this talent.

Mangini's defense could work to some degree if we had a pass rush, and if the coverage was a little tighter making those gaps in between the zones smaller. I think he expected to be able to sit back in zone, and when his scheme generated pressure, be in a better position to make a play on the ball. None of that is happening, and that's why we've been shredded the past 2 weeks.

Mangini has to recognize this is not working and make the necessary adjustments. No more dropping back his OLBs 50% of the time, they need to rush the passer. If coverage is his priority, use more Tartt and Ward in sub-packages. DO NOT trot base defense out there expecting to cover 3 and 4 WRs, this is stupid. And stop rushing 3 so goddamn much, our pass rush is already struggling as it is. His entire approach is a joke.

About our pass rush, I dont think we miss Aldon the most. I think its Justin Smith that used to take on 2 blockers and still push them back.I also dont think the talents of even an injured Willis and Borland cant be easily replaced. That combined with the bad scheming and this is what we have. One last thing, the last 4 or 5 seasons I can always remember us having really good tackling. The guys would all find their way to the ball. Now it seems like some of them are down right shying away from contact.

so with all this film analysis your saying we are going to lose to GB by 40?

Originally posted by Stevec9932:
so with all this film analysis your saying we are going to lose to GB by 40?

lmao

Originally posted by Stevec9932:
so with all this film analysis your saying we are going to lose to GB by 40?

I actually don't feel as bad after reading through this thread. Seems like Kap had a few chances for HUGE plays but was just short on both of the attempts.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
Fangio did drop his OLB's in coverage some, but it was usually just Brooks. Brooks dropped in coverage something like 30%, but Aldon and Lynch were about 9% under Fangio which is smart since Aldon and lunch are the better pass rushers.

So far this season under Mangini, Brooks has dropped into coverage 47% on passing downs and Lynch 36%. The other alarming stat to me that I really HATE is the amount of times Mangini rushes 3 or less. Against Arizona he rushed 3 or less (1 times he rushed 2) 8 times! That's about 25-30% of the pass attempts! And most of the time we are in base coverage and its Dial, Williams, and Dorsey rushing and they are our worst pass rushing lineman. It's absolutely maddening! You can't let a savvy receiver like Fitz and a veteran qb like Palmer sit back for 6 seconds to find a spot in your zone cus your only rushing 3 and its 3 DL who specialize in stopping the run!

Good points. I see this stuff happening and I can't help but think Mangini is sabotaging the team. I'm dead serious. How can someone be so ass-backwards in their thinking and make ALL the wrong moves to put players in the worst position possible. It's really amazing.

Agreed!