week 5 NYG coaches film analysis thread

Originally posted by thl408:

Here's the exact same play but the formation is flopped (concept side is now to Kap's right). In he play jonny cut up, NYG was in zone coverage. Here, NYG is in a Cover1. NYG shows a cover 2 shell presnap.



NYG anticipated Kap targeting the #3 WR again, like the previous play, and jump the route (#88) with two defenders. Kap isn't going there. He's going over the top to Boldin. With the deep safety (Dahl!) having to rotate over from a cover 2 shell, there's room for Boldin to work.


Same play, different coverage, different result. Tell me that's not a QB reading coverage.
]

Oh C'mon....I'm sure Logan or Geep told him to throw it to Boldin this time. Just Remember kap is a "one-read guy"...Mike mayock says so.

Also, remember he has no touch as well....so I think this is some fancy gif creation on your part and this play never happened.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Oh C'mon....I'm sure Logan or Geep told him to throw it to Boldin this time. Just Remember kap is a "one-read guy"...Mike mayock says so.

LMAO!!!

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Only thing I don't like about Devey pulling - he gives it away...big time. I'll show a snapshot of it in a little bit. But, there was one play, you could see Devey was going to pull because he was farther back than any other lineman with his weight back...

That's not even acceptable in high school ball!

*singing music* "one of these things is not like the other....."

I mean...what the hell are the coaches doing?

If you can see it, and we can see it...people studying our offense all week are going to see it and some.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's the exact same play but the formation is flopped (concept side is now to Kap's right). In he play jonny cut up, NYG was in zone coverage. Here, NYG is in a Cover1. NYG shows a cover 2 shell presnap.



NYG anticipated Kap targeting the #3 WR again, like the previous play, and jump the route (#88) with two defenders. Kap isn't going there. He's going over the top to Boldin. With the deep safety (Dahl!) having to rotate over from a cover 2 shell, there's room for Boldin to work.


Same play, different coverage, different result. Tell me that's not a QB reading coverage.
]

Oh C'mon....I'm sure Logan or Geep told him to throw it to Boldin this time. Just Remember kap is a "one-read guy"...Mike mayock says so.

Also, remember he has no touch as well....so I think this is some fancy gif creation on your part and this play never happened.

Some of you aren't talking about the same things. It's not like a play where Kap scans the field and hits his 2nd or 3rd read because a primary target is covered. That's what guys talk about Kap not doing.

On this play Kap takes a three step drop and throws it, he isn't looking to go anywhere else If you look at the gif he's already going to Boldin when the S takes his last step back then breaks up.

Only read was if he figured pre snap that the S was either dropping back or coming up. It's a 50/50 shot and they got it right. The CB had decent coverage he just never turned to look for the ball.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's another example of Kaep making a key defender read. This is where, I too, have issue with Cosell's blanket statement about Kaep not having to read the defense. This is 2:13 2nd QTR.

It's an outside "dagger" concept. Normally, you're dagger concept runs an inside streak with a dig behind it. We're going to run an outside streak with an out behind it. It's not quite the fade/out concept, because we run it from 2 inside receivers.


We run a 3 WR formation at the top. NY gives a cover 6 look. I've highlighted the defensive assignments to show the key defender. This is the guy we're isolating in a 2-1 situation. Kaep is gonna read the key defender, if he drops back on the streak, he throws it to the TE, if he drops underneath on the TE - against this defense, he's gonna to to the outside curl route.


You see Kaep eyeing the key defender who is dropping on the streak. This mean he'll throw to the TE's out route.


He hits his backfoot and immediately gets the ball out.


He does a good job of placing the ball inside, away from the defender. It's a nice 6 yard gain. These are the types of throws and plays that are most important for Kaep to complete. It's the types of throws and plays that the best in the game complete all the time to keep the ball moving and the offense in rhythm. But, it's definitely a key read, not a simple 1 route option play.

Nice example of Kap making a read. The 49ers will run this exact same play again and it will result differently due to the coverage that NYG plays the second time around. Here's the play above.

IMO he's playing it just like it looks drawn up. The read is pre snap and he's already made his mind up where hes going to throw it. 3 step drop looks to the TE the entire time and throws it. He's got soft coverage on the outside and a shot at a bigger play. A much easier completion for someone with a strong arm IMO.

Originally posted by SoCold:

IMO he's playing it just like it looks drawn up. The read is pre snap and he's already made his mind up where hes going to throw it. 3 step drop looks to the TE the entire time and throws it. He's got soft coverage on the outside and a shot at a bigger play. A much easier completion for someone with a strong arm IMO.

You've just seen the same play against different coverages go to different spots based on coverage cues. Presnap reads are reads and are necessary. So within this one concepts we've seen him go to his primary and secondary receiver.

These whole field progressions reads people expect throughout many plays just aren't the way the plays are drawn up. Most of the times it's half field reads and once you've picked your side the progressions consist of a primary, secondary and the third read is a checkdown. This is a big thing in any offense that's has any WCO roots to it.

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's the exact same play but the formation is flopped (concept side is now to Kap's right). In he play jonny cut up, NYG was in zone coverage. Here, NYG is in a Cover1. NYG shows a cover 2 shell presnap.



NYG anticipated Kap targeting the #3 WR again, like the previous play, and jump the route (#88) with two defenders. Kap isn't going there. He's going over the top to Boldin. With the deep safety (Dahl!) having to rotate over from a cover 2 shell, there's room for Boldin to work.


Same play, different coverage, different result. Tell me that's not a QB reading coverage.
]

Oh C'mon....I'm sure Logan or Geep told him to throw it to Boldin this time. Just Remember kap is a "one-read guy"...Mike mayock says so.

Also, remember he has no touch as well....so I think this is some fancy gif creation on your part and this play never happened.

Some of you aren't talking about the same things. It's not like a play where Kap scans the field and hits his 2nd or 3rd read because a primary target is covered. That's what guys talk about Kap not doing.

On this play Kap takes a three step drop and throws it, he isn't looking to go anywhere else If you look at the gif he's already going to Boldin when the S takes his last step back then breaks up.

Only read was if he figured pre snap that the S was either dropping back or coming up. It's a 50/50 shot and they got it right. The CB had decent coverage he just never turned to look for the ball.

You are talking about going through progressions where you want to see him move his head back and forth, I'm guessing. I am talking about reading coverage which he does because he chooses the correct option. Reading coverage is done presnap too.

Originally posted by thl408:
The 49ers move down the field and into the dreaded red zone. On 1st they ran a misdirection rollout right that teams are starting to overplay. No one was open and Kap threw it away.

2nd down & 10
Triangle stretch to the strongside. I think NYG is in cover3 with man coverage on the backside (Torrey). My guess is that the progression on this play goes red-yellow-orange. Kap under center with 5 step timing.


Kap completes his drop and I think is reading the blue defender who is in a good position to defeat Celek's corner route. But blue is over the top of Boldin and not in a good position to defend Boldin's Out route.


Kap mid windup targeting Boldin just as Boldin enters his cut. Good anticipation.


Nice throw despite not being able to step into it due to pressure up the middle. +9 yards

Here's a play where there are progressions built into the 3 man route combination. It's a triangle stretch, a Bill Walsh staple. Surprised no one cared to talk about this play.

Originally posted by thl408:

Here's a play where there are progressions built into the 3 man route combination. It's a triangle stretch, a Bill Walsh staple. Surprised no one cared to talk about this play.

Look how it's also a half field read and one of the reads is basically a checkdown to Miller.

By the way, the plays that jonnydel and myself show in these film threads is like 1/10th of the game. If you really want to know what's going on, you have to get NFL Gamepass. Otherwise you are subject to my cherry picking of plays. I watch the entire game, but I can't cut up every play.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's the exact same play but the formation is flopped (concept side is now to Kap's right). In he play jonny cut up, NYG was in zone coverage. Here, NYG is in a Cover1. NYG shows a cover 2 shell presnap.



NYG anticipated Kap targeting the #3 WR again, like the previous play, and jump the route (#88) with two defenders. Kap isn't going there. He's going over the top to Boldin. With the deep safety (Dahl!) having to rotate over from a cover 2 shell, there's room for Boldin to work.


Same play, different coverage, different result. Tell me that's not a QB reading coverage.
]

Oh C'mon....I'm sure Logan or Geep told him to throw it to Boldin this time. Just Remember kap is a "one-read guy"...Mike mayock says so.

Also, remember he has no touch as well....so I think this is some fancy gif creation on your part and this play never happened.

Some of you aren't talking about the same things. It's not like a play where Kap scans the field and hits his 2nd or 3rd read because a primary target is covered. That's what guys talk about Kap not doing.

On this play Kap takes a three step drop and throws it, he isn't looking to go anywhere else If you look at the gif he's already going to Boldin when the S takes his last step back then breaks up.

Only read was if he figured pre snap that the S was either dropping back or coming up. It's a 50/50 shot and they got it right. The CB had decent coverage he just never turned to look for the ball.

You are talking about going through progressions where you want to see him move his head back and forth, I'm guessing. I am talking about reading coverage which he does because he chooses the correct option. Reading coverage is done presnap too.

Yeah I know, I didn't quote you.

Originally posted by thl408:
By the way, the plays that jonnydel and myself show in these film threads is like 1/10th of the game. If you really want to know what's going on, you have to get NFL Gamepass. Otherwise you are subject to my cherry picking of plays. I watch the entire game, but I can't cut up every play.

After seeing Kap shovel pass out of bounds for a sack I don't need more than this to know he's bad more times than good.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's a play where there are progressions built into the 3 man route combination. It's a triangle stretch, a Bill Walsh staple. Surprised no one cared to talk about this play.

Look how it's also a half field read and one of the reads is basically a checkdown to Miller.

Most triangle stretches are half field reads. It's a Smash concept (vertical stretch, orange + red) with a modified Curl-Flat concept (horizontal stretch) where instead of Curl-Flat, it's Curl-Out (still a horizontal stretch).

Originally posted by thl408:
By the way, the plays that jonnydel and myself show in these film threads is like 1/10th of the game. If you really want to know what's going on, you have to get NFL Gamepass. Otherwise you are subject to my cherry picking of plays. I watch the entire game, but I can't cut up every play.

Well...you two need to be less lazy and do the whole game!

I have the game pass but these threads are really priceless. Even with game pass I can't learn as much as the discussions here.

Originally posted by thl408:

Most triangle stretches are half field reads. It's a Smash concept (vertical stretch, orange + red) with a modified Curl-Flat concept (horizontal stretch) where instead of Curl-Flat, it's Curl-Out (still a horizontal stretch).

Yeah...that's why these whole field progression reads where the QBs head is scanning the field are few and far between in an offense with WCO roots. Most of your concepts are contained in half fields are are based on a primary, secondary and then a check down. Backside stuff is usually on an alert basis and dictated by presnap coverage reads.