week 5 NYG coaches film analysis thread

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Celek (I believe) jumped inside and allowed his guy a clear shot to Kaepernick...didn't really matter what any one else did.

Edit: rewatching this play, over and over and over, I don't get what the linemen were thinking. Pears penetrated almost to second level allowing his guy to move around him, Celek jumped left allowing his guy a clear path. Were they trying to sell a run play up the middle?


I liked Tiller last year and thought he'd make the team at least as a backup. In the last game he scored bit higher than Devey in both pass blocking and run blocking, seemed much stronger and able to maintain position on his guy. One of the brief video clips showed him using a strong punch to stop the DTs progress and allow him to keep him from penetrating. Not a big fan of Devey and couldn't understand how he could come in and start mid-preseason over Tiller and Looney.

Tiller is an over acheiver and has worked hard to be effective. Devey seems more fluid in pulling...though I may be biased by Tiller being tripped by Martin.

Link (provided by iLLEST209ER in the OL thread)

Only thing I don't like about Devey pulling - he gives it away...big time. I'll show a snapshot of it in a little bit. But, there was one play, you could see Devey was going to pull because he was farther back than any other lineman with his weight back...

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Only thing I don't like about Devey pulling - he gives it away...big time. I'll show a snapshot of it in a little bit. But, there was one play, you could see Devey was going to pull because he was farther back than any other lineman with his weight back...

That's not even acceptable in high school ball!

Edit: Thanks Jonny...look forward to your posts!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
That's not even acceptable in high school ball!

These are your 2015 San Francisco 49ers! Seriously hope Kilgore can come back when available to upgrade the line.

Here's another example of Kaep making a key defender read. This is where, I too, have issue with Cosell's blanket statement about Kaep not having to read the defense. This is 2:13 2nd QTR.

It's an outside "dagger" concept. Normally, you're dagger concept runs an inside streak with a dig behind it. We're going to run an outside streak with an out behind it. It's not quite the fade/out concept, because we run it from 2 inside receivers.


We run a 3 WR formation at the top. NY gives a cover 6 look. I've highlighted the defensive assignments to show the key defender. This is the guy we're isolating in a 2-1 situation. Kaep is gonna read the key defender, if he drops back on the streak, he throws it to the TE, if he drops underneath on the TE - against this defense, he's gonna to to the outside curl route.


You see Kaep eyeing the key defender who is dropping on the streak. This mean he'll throw to the TE's out route.


He hits his backfoot and immediately gets the ball out.


He does a good job of placing the ball inside, away from the defender. It's a nice 6 yard gain. These are the types of throws and plays that are most important for Kaep to complete. It's the types of throws and plays that the best in the game complete all the time to keep the ball moving and the offense in rhythm. But, it's definitely a key read, not a simple 1 route option play.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Here's another example of Kaep making a key defender read. This is where, I too, have issue with Cosell's blanket statement about Kaep not having to read the defense. This is 2:13 2nd QTR.

It's an outside "dagger" concept. Normally, you're dagger concept runs an inside streak with a dig behind it. We're going to run an outside streak with an out behind it. It's not quite the fade/out concept, because we run it from 2 inside receivers.


We run a 3 WR formation at the top. NY gives a cover 6 look. I've highlighted the defensive assignments to show the key defender. This is the guy we're isolating in a 2-1 situation. Kaep is gonna read the key defender, if he drops back on the streak, he throws it to the TE, if he drops underneath on the TE - against this defense, he's gonna to to the outside curl route.


You see Kaep eyeing the key defender who is dropping on the streak. This mean he'll throw to the TE's out route.


He hits his backfoot and immediately gets the ball out.


He does a good job of placing the ball inside, away from the defender. It's a nice 6 yard gain. These are the types of throws and plays that are most important for Kaep to complete. It's the types of throws and plays that the best in the game complete all the time to keep the ball moving and the offense in rhythm. But, it's definitely a key read, not a simple 1 route option play.

Cosell does talk out his ass from time to time. Problem with him, people take his words as the end-all-be-all and it drives narratives.

You are right on about this being the type of throws that need to be completed.....it's these throws that help a QB hit at or above 65%.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Only thing I don't like about Devey pulling - he gives it away...big time. I'll show a snapshot of it in a little bit. But, there was one play, you could see Devey was going to pull because he was farther back than any other lineman with his weight back...

That's not even acceptable in high school ball!

here it is:


you can see how Devey is sitting back more than the other guys. He's squatting down more, putting more weight on his heels so he can pull faster...


Look how much further back his inside foot is than Boon's, you also see, he's putting so little weight on his hand, he doesn't even have his thumb on the ground - there's no weight on that hand. Look at the guys who'll be firing out, they have weight on their hand. These are little things that the guy across from them is going to notice. If I were the DT across from him, I'd be calling out that pull at the line...


Look how much lower his head is and how much higher his butt is, that's, again, weight back on his heels.


*singing music* "one of these things is not like the other....."

Originally posted by Niners816:
Cosell does talk out his ass from time to time. Problem with him, people take his words as the end-all-be-all and it drives narratives.

You are right on about this being the type of throws that need to be completed.....it's these throws that help a QB hit at or above 65%.

This is probably why I tend to react negatively to comments quoting Cossell. No pundit watches every game as closely as many fans watch their teams. Much of what the pundits say is skewed by the group think of other pundits they respect. For instance, how many said last week that Kaepernick was done...fininshed as an NFL QB? He has a good game and all of a sudden, many are silent. It's as if they are saying, "Uh oh...maybe we should watch a game and see if he is done before opening our mouths." Drives me crazy when the herd mentality takes over and dictates the conversation.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Cosell does talk out his ass from time to time. Problem with him, people take his words as the end-all-be-all and it drives narratives.

You are right on about this being the type of throws that need to be completed.....it's these throws that help a QB hit at or above 65%.

This is probably why I tend to react negatively to comments quoting Cossell. No pundit watches every game as closely as many fans watch their teams. Much of what the pundits say is skewed by the group think of other pundits they respect. For instance, how many said last week that Kaepernick was done...fininshed as an NFL QB? He has a good game and all of a sudden, many are silent. It's as if they are saying, "Uh oh...maybe we should watch a game and see if he is done before opening our mouths." Drives me crazy when the herd mentality takes over and dictates the conversation.

Then you get guys like Jaws that think they are so important, that he had to distance himself from his ridiculous statements a couple a years ago about kap being the greatest ever. That was a very stupid thing to say 10 games into a career and it's even more stupid to try to distance yourself from it a couple years later. I think that put an unneeded spotlight on kap an the noise has been evident ever since. Kap is what he is. He's developing and in some areas not as fast as we would like, but this one read nonsense is ridiculous. Mike mayock said the same thing about him in that 2013 Thursday night ram game and people latched on the that as well. I just want to know why the little gnome up in the northwest gets a pass on this. He is was more one read then kaps ever been. Their passing is basically a QB scramble still.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's another example of Kaep making a key defender read. This is where, I too, have issue with Cosell's blanket statement about Kaep not having to read the defense. This is 2:13 2nd QTR.

It's an outside "dagger" concept. Normally, you're dagger concept runs an inside streak with a dig behind it. We're going to run an outside streak with an out behind it. It's not quite the fade/out concept, because we run it from 2 inside receivers.


We run a 3 WR formation at the top. NY gives a cover 6 look. I've highlighted the defensive assignments to show the key defender. This is the guy we're isolating in a 2-1 situation. Kaep is gonna read the key defender, if he drops back on the streak, he throws it to the TE, if he drops underneath on the TE - against this defense, he's gonna to to the outside curl route.


You see Kaep eyeing the key defender who is dropping on the streak. This mean he'll throw to the TE's out route.


He hits his backfoot and immediately gets the ball out.


He does a good job of placing the ball inside, away from the defender. It's a nice 6 yard gain. These are the types of throws and plays that are most important for Kaep to complete. It's the types of throws and plays that the best in the game complete all the time to keep the ball moving and the offense in rhythm. But, it's definitely a key read, not a simple 1 route option play.

Nice example of Kap making a read. The 49ers will run this exact same play again and it will result differently due to the coverage that NYG plays the second time around. Here's the play above.

I think one reason why our defense is suffering, is each week we are playing a different defense - man, zone, pattern matching, safeties faking blitz and then sprinting backwards. Players don't get comfortable in any scheme, because they are always learning a new one. Fangio kept the defense simple, so the players got good at the execution of it. Execution is more important than scheme, so I think the 49ers need to commit to one style (my vote is pattern matching) and stick to it.

Originally posted by fryet:
I think one reason why our defense is suffering, is each week we are playing a different defense - man, zone, pattern matching, safeties faking blitz and then sprinting backwards. Players don't get comfortable in any scheme, because they are always learning a new one. Fangio kept the defense simple, so the players got good at the execution of it. Execution is more important than scheme, so I think the 49ers need to commit to one style (my vote is pattern matching) and stick to it.

So basically, we're now running the HaRoman offense of defense.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SoCold:


was this the shovel toss after he already steps out of bounds?

why this dude can't just throw the ball away is disturbing

still not sure why he isn't more willing to throw the ball away in situations where he's gonna run out of bounds short of the line. I know we've all seen it happen over...and over...and over again. It really skews the numbers too, because it makes our O-line look worse as it counts as a sack. So, last season, we had sack numbers in the 50's, but that looks worse than it was. Because he ran out of bounds for a sack at least 10 times.

Exactly, 7 of the 53 were attributed to him and I bet all 7 were of him running OOB short of the LOS.

I wanted to show how our defense broke down on the last drive of the game. Here's how NY beat us. So, throughout the day, I'll be trying to break down every play on that drive.


First play of the drive we come out in man-coverage.


at the snap, we lock up the receivers well.


still got em locked.


still got em locked.


The rproblem is a lack of, and breakdown of pass rush. Dorsey, for some reason, takes a really wide rush lane.


Dorsey gets pushed outside and Armstead allowed the lineman to get his hands on him first, you see he's trying to fight off the Tackles arms. WIth his long arms, he should be attacking the lineman first, think of all those times Aldon bull rushed those guys with his long arms, he got those arms on that guy first, before those tackles could get their hands on him.


an undisciplined and uninspiring rush allows Eli to take off and scramble for 11 yards....Eli Manning, people....

Here's the exact same play but the formation is flopped (concept side is now to Kap's right). In he play jonny cut up, NYG was in zone coverage. Here, NYG is in a Cover1. NYG shows a cover 2 shell presnap.



NYG anticipated Kap targeting the #3 WR again, like the previous play, and jump the route (#88) with two defenders. Kap isn't going there. He's going over the top to Boldin. With the deep safety (Dahl!) having to rotate over from a cover 2 shell, there's room for Boldin to work.


Same play, different coverage, different result. Tell me that's not a QB reading coverage.